posted on June 6, 2001 02:02:24 PM new
What Are Some of Our Previous Sucesses When Acting Together as a Group?
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There is much talk of working together more, as a group, to effect positive changes on behalf of independent online sellers.
If we don't believe it can happen then why bother?
I saw groups on the eBay boards stop the "Buyers, click here to start this transaction using escrow" Button that was within days of being launched during a Bid page revision.
I also saw the cross board efforts, centered on the book board, when eBay suggested it would restrict books to the book category and not allow them in categories which displayed their subject matter. (A book about cleaning a specific collectable would not have been allowed among the collectable offerings etc.)
If you are aware of any case when the efforts of any individual or group have brought about positive change regarding online selling, please share it here.
If it happened before, it can happen again.
Two, twenty or two hundred voices may not yet have been strong enough to be heard and effect changes we want but some number is.
posted on June 7, 2001 01:19:08 AM new
It could happen if we found a good way to get the word across to tons eBay auction sellers at once. You have to reach many people. I don't really know how we can do that. If you know, please tell me.
posted on June 7, 2001 01:59:20 AM new
Maybe if one person could have everyone list all of the different chat areas they go to to talk to other sellers about ebay in one space we could direct a conversation at one location. I know myself by buying a lot on ebay I also come in contact with a lot of sellers and could contact many. The point is nothing is going to change if only the handful of sellers who frequent these boards are the only ones involved in disscussing issues. I am sure there are a lot of lonely sellers who don't know or have tried to use any of the message boards that are just sitting there by themselves brooding over a lot of the new changes. I personally would open up one of my AOL email addresses to collect this information if someone would like to organize where this discussion could take place without interruption if you know what I mean. Perhaps that new site that that one guy started with the bright red background. Doesn't it have a chat area? Is it adequate for tons of people???
posted on June 7, 2001 02:18:23 AM new
I don't know, but it surely discourages me.Look at some of the threads! When a thread is started that is looking for alternatives to ebay some macho know-it-all cheerleader will jump in to disrupt the thread, without adding anything constructive.
Look what's happened to the Coop. In principal, a very good idea, but for various reasons, not seeming to go anywhere.
It seems we don't have the ability to stick together as sellers, no matter what they do to us.
It reminds me of:
They came for the Catholics and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a Catholic,
They came for the Jews and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a Jew,
and it goes on(know you've all heard it), the last line being
They came for me and there was no one left to speak up for me.
I think of that as being the position we'll be in a year from now if they continue the policies they've started the past year and keep on adding to them. Even those doing well now will be in the minority in a year.
And us all heading off to 10 different auctions won't hurt them in the least UNLESS a giant search engine can combine all those auctions! Can it be done? Reston_Ray do you know anybody computer savvy enough to know what that would require and how much it would cost?
posted on June 7, 2001 03:11:03 AM new
While there may be plenty to criticize at eBay, labeling posters here as "know-it-all cheerleaders" is divisive in itself and goes to show how sellers can't work together. It is a self-defeating attitude. As for "adding anything constructive," they are sharing their positive experiences, which might be arguably more constructive than the never-ending whining we usually see in these forums. And I am certainly guilty of that too.
I think there are many things sellers could do, but I'm not optimistic about lobbying eBay. Personally, I've seen too many "Why eBay Sucks" web sites to pay them much attention any more.
(One suggestion is obvious. Take your business elsewhere.)
posted on June 7, 2001 03:38:04 AM new
Sorry twinsoft, I usually agree with your posts but not this time. I've seen too many threads that started out as constructive "help each other improve" turned into name calling and bashing the posters threads.
Just check into how many times the moderators have had to step in !
posted on June 7, 2001 04:09:18 AM new
Added to say I was referring to about 6 "bashers" out of the 1,000+ posters and lurkers.
And if you think making comments in what was originally a helpful thread like "don't like it go somewhere else" or " can't make money, you're too stupid to be here anyway" are constructive posts, then I must be the stupid one.
posted on June 7, 2001 05:25:53 AM new
No, Deco, that's not what I meant at all. I edited for the sake of brevity and I guess my statement was ambiguous. What I meant was, "vote with your pocketbook," not "if you don't like it then leave."
posted on June 7, 2001 06:58:22 AM new
No, twinsoft, I didn't mean you. You have always added something to the threads. I meant the half dozen or less that always seem to want to disrupt a thread with put downs.
I guess you'll find that anywhere. Basically, we have a good helpful group here and I have to give credit where credit is due. I've learned more on these threads from you and others than I have on ebay. Not saying there aren't good helpful people over there on those threads too, just that these are more concentrated and to the point usually.
So I'll get back to the point too! I think acting together would make a difference but getting us to act together is another story. Since we are all so diversified and heading off to 10 different auctions we are not going to accomplish a whole lot.
But what we could accomplish with a giant search engine like reston_ray suggested on another thread could make a big difference. In fact, I believe it could change the whole on-line auction business while letting everyone keep their own favorite listing places.
I only wish I had the computer savvy (and the money!)to implement such a device. Maybe someone will come forward with some facts and figures?
posted on June 7, 2001 08:23:01 AM new
There is such a search engine. I used to use bidders edge that looked through all the auctions with their search engine. This new site : http://www.bidxs.com now took it over. Check it out. J
posted on June 7, 2001 08:57:49 AM new
That's marvelous! Now I will try to contact them and some auction sites like epier,bidville, bidbay, bargainandhaggle,sellyouritem, ect and see what it costs and if they want to join.
posted on June 7, 2001 09:13:03 AM new
Another thing you might find interesting on the news here, it may have been the Today show actually...they had a report on how not to get ripped off at auctions. The gentleman speaking mentioned going to the various meta searchs, he mentioned a few I have used and bidders edge which if he had done his homework he would have known it no longer exists, but any way he did tell the world of these search engines for all the auction places and did mention that you can sometimes get a better deal at some of the smaller newer ones! I was saying yippee in my chair...Is all of America Listening!
posted on June 7, 2001 09:31:40 AM new
You got me all excited, so I went there. I put in 2 rare items so it would be a short search. They didn't come up with either one ,which was as expected. Then I put in Stickley brothers which is the least common of the Stickleys. I'm still waiting and it's going on 10 minutes now. Think they need some bigger equipment.
posted on June 7, 2001 09:54:41 AM new
I haven't had too many problems but I have them email me any day a certain doll comes up on any of the auctions. And it works great that way. Did you ever use bidders edge? There is another one I haven't treid
http://www.biglion.com
posted on June 7, 2001 10:06:56 AM new
www.overBID.com I think this is another. I'll go over to the today show and do a search and see if I can find the four or so they mentioned on the show later.
posted on June 7, 2001 10:17:03 AM new
In the meantime here is a few more:
http://www.bidfind.com/
www.bidblazer.com/
http://www.easthot.com/eng/auctions.htm
http://www.auctionbeagle.com/
Bidcrawler.com
AuctionSearch.cc,
Biddin.com
http://www.internetauctionfind.com
http://superauction.whatuseek.com
[ edited by jlb444 on Jun 7, 2001 10:31 AM ]
posted on June 7, 2001 01:55:49 PM new
Well, about sellers acting together. There are seller groups who are already trying to affect change. For example, ToyRanch's Million Auction March, which is essentially a movement to boycott eBay. If I were going to take aim at eBay, I would probably join and support one of those groups, rather than go off in a new direction. Thus my comment about yet another "Why eBay Sucks" web page.
Now, my next question is, "What's wrong with eBay?" Okay, so we all know what's wrong. But when you come right down to it, what's wrong with that? eBay banned links from the View Item pages to off-site sales. Is that really such a bad thing? After all, eBay is a business and must protect itself. One could argue that eBay is minimizing losses, rather that tacking on new fees, which would be even worse for most sellers. (This is not to say that I am at all happy about many of eBay's policies.)
When I think about this new "no links" rule, I always remember a post I read here a while back. Some guy was boasting, rather gleefully, that by using his View Item page to drive bidders to his home page, by mailing lists and spam, he had succeeded in decimating the bidders in his particular category. He bragged that he had drawn 90% of the bidders away from eBay. Now how would you feel if you were a seller in that particular category? How would you feel about it if you were eBay?
Sure eBay has lots of policies we don't like, and maybe our sales are down 50% like all the studies say. But eBay is in this to make money for eBay. They aren't running a charity.
For those reasons, and from experience, I would say that seller lobby groups have little (not no, but little) effect on eBay's policies. (Media attention has far more influence.) eBay has their Voices groups for customer input, and some great marketing strategists. So a few sellers getting up on their hind legs and barking about a nickle increase won't faze eBay.
If I were to try to affect change on eBay, I would probably do it by questioning the legality of eBay's policies. eBay is a monopoly, and the policies they set should be seen in that light. For example, if eBay is "only a venue," can they legally prohibit users from including email links in their auctions, taking their feedback to other sites, or forbid sellers from replying to purchase orders from other eBay members? eBay's user agreement plainly shows that eBay insists on exclusive rights to your listings/sales, yet they accept no responsibility vis-a-vis protection for sellers. This doesn't jibe. ToyRanch raised this point elsewhere.
Anyway, if I wanted to make changes on eBay, it wouldn't be through a special interest group. eBay is too big for that. It would be by making sure eBay is following business requirements set down by law. Plus a few well-penned letters to the media. More than that, you can't expect. And yes, I would take my business elsewhere.
