posted on June 9, 2001 11:07:31 AM
I'm seriously considering going back to "checks or money orders only" on my auctions.
I've had people asking why I don't take Billpoint. I've had people totally ignore my TOS (no Paypal), so they send payment by Paypal anyway. I've had them complain that Achex was too difficult, Yahoo Paydirect was...
I'm sick of this crap.
The only payment system I've seen that is worth a hoot is Bidpay. Now Bidpay has it down. I don't even have to mess with anything, just wait for the check.
posted on June 9, 2001 11:35:34 AM
Yep, thats the way I like it. No hassle with crooked charge backs etc. Its no big deal for me to wait a week for payment.
posted on June 9, 2001 11:49:52 AM
It's a catch-22 for me. I don't mind paypal or billpoint on anything over $50 +/- but I'm selling some lower end items now. With the fee increases, I won't take it for anything under $15. I'd love to receive all postal money orders on those smaller amounts and just cash them when I go to PO to ship.
On the OTHER hand .. as a buyer .. I WANT PAYPAL. Stinks, huh? (sigh)
posted on June 9, 2001 12:56:01 PM
Incidentally, I would rather pay a small fee as a buyer to use this service than pay the fees I do as a seller.
I'm the one (when I'm buying) who doesn't have to get/pay for a money order or write out and mail a check with all auction info included then wait for it to clear to get my item. I don't even HAVE any checks anymore. I ran out about 6 months ago and never reordered. I use my bank's online billpaying service, my debit card or cash for everything!
If I buy something online, I'd pay a paypal BUYER fee to get it faster!!
posted on June 9, 2001 01:01:00 PM
If I had to worry about the fee levels we're talking about, I'd start selling something with a decent profit margin. It's worth it to me to make the sale. And, if it draws even one bidder into an auction (regardless of who wins), the increased price more than makes up for the fees.
posted on June 9, 2001 01:06:12 PM
BidPay is the only one I use, as well.
It's really not because of fees. It's because I don't want anyone else in my bank account. Nor do I want anyone arbitrarily freezing my funds or accepting chargebacks...then deciding if those actions are warranted sometime later, at their convenience.
I want as much autonomy as I can get in my business.
spelling!
[ edited by toke on Jun 9, 2001 01:07 PM ]
It's my belief that accepting PayPal increased my sales, and the number of bids on my auctions (even though the PayPal customer might not have been the winner). I have the feeling that it might not matter to people whether it is Billpoint or not, but I'm not quite to the point to want to revise all my auctions and remove the choice.
I think that many buyers want an 'instant' experience on the internet. Credit card acceptance cuts many days out of the process.
I keep a spreadsheet going that compares credit card acceptance, PayPal and Billpoint costs. Right now, PayPal is slightly cheaper than the alternatives, except for auctions ending between $2.25 and $15.
I don't like not being notified directly about the fee simplification (simply more money for them). That moves them quite a bit closer to my cut list. Before I cut them out, though, I would just rearrange my end of sale information to make Billpoint the easier choice.
My one gripe about Billpoint: The buyer can't adjust the amount for insurance or to add an item, I have to produce a new invoice for that. If they fixed that, PayPal would be at the very bottom of by WBN.
posted on June 9, 2001 01:25:00 PM
three points
One you will make more sales and higher with credit cards some peaple dont have the cash avilable right now we live in a credtit based society WE both list the same item I garantee I will get more bids and will end higher by concentrating on my customers needs than you will worrying about meeting your needs
conveince Anymore I am relucant to bid on a auction that requires me to buy a money order or take the time to address the envolope write a check and wait 10 days or so for you to clear my check before you ship
as a seller I like auctions to end on sunday and funds are available to me on monday or tuesday. use it to pay for shipping more product ect ect Its all about turning your money.
posted on June 9, 2001 01:36:13 PM
I agree w/mrspock's logic (sorry, the trekkie in me MADE me say that).
I do think in some categories offering CC means more sales & possibly higher prices. People will spend if they can just toss it on their CC along w/the rest of their debt & think about paying it off another day.
In categories like reddeer's sells, then CC may not be a big attraction or selling point so he doesn't need to offer them.
I think you have to look at YOUR category (or categories) and decide for yourself which you need.
I know MY sales went up even back in the old days when I was just starting to offer CCNow. Once PP & BP came on line, they far out numbered the money order/check people.
There's a LOT of instant gratification/need it now/need it yesterday buyers out there. They want to buy it now, pay for it now & have it here yesterday. CC sales are just what they want & look to for in auctions.
And even then..sometimes it is still not FAST enough for some. Have one buyer who is still chewing me out because her item arrived SIX days after the auction when she wanted it in FIVE days after the auction (though she never bothered to share this minor detail in her emails). And she'll probably end up negging me for it.
I really liked PayPal. I still like BillPoint. And I will continue to offer CC (though I'm dropping PayPal) as long as I sell.
posted on June 9, 2001 01:37:07 PM
I dont think theres a bit of truth that not taking paypal hurts sales. I have been on ebay for over 3 years, and never had a online payment service. My sales today are just as good as when I started in 1998. If a buyer does want to pay by credit card I accept bidpay which I feel is much safer than paypal. I have talked to many friends who ask me "how do you stay in business without paypal?", and I kindly remind them when I started there was no such thing, and sales were just as good. Sellers have become so dependent on these costly services, that they have forgotten how simple checks and money orders are. Just my opinion!
posted on June 9, 2001 01:54:39 PM
I closed my Pay Pal right after Christmas. I had been using it to buy and not for my customers for about a month anyway.
I was using Billpoint until last month, but I got tired of their logo and contests taking up so much space on my auctions. I haven't ditched them, just don't include them in my TOS or listings anymore.
I haven't had anyone ask for either one, and I was still getting multiple bids on the items I thought I should. I will be back
listing again in July, and will consider leaving Billpoint off for good.
One of the last people to use it was a guy who charged a 6.00 item. It seemed to me that the people with the smallest sales were the ones using the credit cards in my case.
I read in another thread that you do not have to give personal info to accept payments for Bidpay so will offer that to my customers. If I ever have any international ones again! When I stated "US Only" last year, I had international sales. This year, I accept most anyone and haven't had one! LabRat4GMOs
[Edited to say: I agree with Chum. I don't know what will happen if I decide to start selling higher end items on eBay, but I am not sure I want to even go that route anyway. Ebay seems to unstable to offer any large items right now anyway. I am considering selling at other sites.]
[ edited by labrat4gmos on Jun 9, 2001 02:18 PM ]
posted on June 9, 2001 02:19:58 PM
loosecannon
Pay pal has not alienated me yet so using their debit card I can use the funds instantly
Money costs money when we first started taking cc years ago my wife went balastic with costs till I proved increased sales more than made up for it
I have a customer/freind who has 13 franchised sandwich shops he added cc terminals about a year ago I asked how sales were going ..nice increase cc are increasing sales
Not sure what you sell but yes if its truly unique shure somone will fall in love and buy it. but offered a freindly payment alternative they will go for it
Not condoning it but we are a credit based society
I am bidding on your item and I know I have to cough the cash up for a mo or have enough in my checking account to cover it I am limted to funds on hand
If I can use cc I can pay over two three months or pay it all at the end of the month some folks only get paid once a month.
I still feel the more customer freindly the more you sell.
Just my opion...And no one knows my opion better than I
posted on June 9, 2001 02:23:58 PMI dont think theres a bit of truth that not taking paypal hurts sales. I have been on ebay for over 3 years, and never had a online payment service. My sales today are just as good as when I started in 1998.
How do you know your sales wouldn't be twice what they are now if you'd accept PayPal? The trouble is you don't.
I can't prove that accepting PayPal would make you any more money, but from personal experience I'd say it would. As a bidder, I've passed up on auctions because they didn't accept PayPal and I doubt that I'm the only on Ebay who does so.
posted on June 9, 2001 02:26:03 PM
My experience is this. Even if Paypal were perfect (which it isn't), I still wouldn't offer it. I sell inexpensive items which are shipped by first class. Since Paypal requires proof of shipment and DC is not available for first class mail, accepting Paypal would mean shipping everything by priority mail (a $3 increase in shipping) plus the hassle and extra expense of delivery confirmationn.
My other option would be to simply ship as I do now, and hope buyers didn't try to cheat me. That has already happened once. A buyer who was later kicked off of eBay for shill bidding and other offenses claimed his item didn't arrive. Little doubt it was a scam. Paypal froze my account for months over a $17 dispute. The last email I received from Paypal said, "we're going to do whatever it takes to get this money from you." Three minutes later I received an email from Paypal saying that someone (else) had paid me with a stolen credit card. Yeah, right....
This is a company that wouldn't think twice about cheating its customers. Remember when they said they'd be making money "off the float?" Then they locked up thousands of users' accounts for months. The float Paypal was talking about was simply grabbing people's money and sitting on it for eeks/months. Oh yeah, they're convenient, but is that the kind of company you want to do business with? To refer your customers to? No way.
If my customers insist on paying by credit card, they use BidPay. Recently I moved to a new apartment and a couple of BidPay money orders got lost by the USPS. BidPay simply cancelled the payments and reissued new money orders. No questions, no hassle. Any idea what would have happened if the payments were made through Paypal? Paypal would have hung me from the nearest tree without a second thought.
posted on June 9, 2001 02:48:31 PM
I sell low value lots Internationally for a fixed shipping fee of $3 World Wide by Air Mail. Combine lots and pay only one shipping. I am convinced that I get higher bids by taking Paypal. My only problem is timing my auctions so that I do not fall foul of the $100 a month credit card sales!
And my UK Bank charges me $8 to deal with US$ Money Orders or cheques!
[ edited by GreetingsfromUK on Jun 9, 2001 03:17 PM ]
posted on June 9, 2001 02:49:48 PM
Isn't BidPay the one that charges the buyer something like $5.00 for a money order??? I cannot believe that anyone thinks they're doing their customers a service for offering that.
I've done a bit of buying on eBay. Probably close to as much as I do selling. I can tell you that I RARELY bid on items that I can't pay for with Billpoint or Paypal. I have 3 kids under 5 and its just too big of a pain in the but to go out and buy money orders. I will buy sometimes if personal check is an option, but not if I have to wait for it to clear for 10 days.
posted on June 9, 2001 02:56:08 PM
As a buyer, if I were to look at two identical auctions, and one offered paypal, and the other said check/money order, I would choose the auction with paypal - It's just easier, no writing a check, no mailing it out. Log in, take 30 seconds to fill in the form, and that is it.
I can't be the only one who feels this way. That's why for me NOT taking paypal isn't an option.
After that post I take back every bad thing I ever said about you. Just kidding.
Bidpay is the best thing going and that's what I'm going to try. Accepting only Bidpay, checks and money orders. Just listed my first two auctions with my new TOS. If this ends up hurting my sales, I'll be the first to admit it.
But I doubt I'll need to admit to that. After all, I'm not selling stuff that is all that common. They just can't always go to the next seller or wait for another to come up next week. It may not be there next week and the next seller may not have one. If they want it or need it, I believe they'll buy it with the payment options I offer.
posted on June 9, 2001 04:29:05 PM
"How do you know your sales wouldn't be twice what they are now if you'd accept PayPal? The trouble is you don't."
Sure I do. If not taking paypal hurt my sales then I would know by bidding history, but like I have said my bids have not decreased by not accepting it. I have been selling long before paypal, and I will be selling long after they are gone. Only a matter of time ebay kicks them out. If a bidder wants to pay by paypal I have no problem with them bidding on another auction.
"Isn't BidPay the one that charges the buyer something like $5.00 for a money order??? I cannot believe that anyone thinks they're doing their customers a service for offering that."
Bidpay is the best online payment service in my opinion. I am receiving about 25-30 payments a month from buyers using it. Many people in rural America live miles from the post office, and with the high cost of gas its a deal. Its also a favorite payment method for high-ticket items. If someone asks why I dont take paypal I simply show them the bad press they receive. I have gotten many thanks for it!
posted on June 9, 2001 04:47:47 PM
Chum said
and with the high cost of gas
I guess you should check out the UK price! Many more $ than USA pays. Guess I cannot work out the conversion from litres to US gallons, but I think you would be amazed at gas costs in UK. You may like to visit www.rip-off.co.uk where this subject has been discussed.
[ edited by GreetingsfromUK on Jun 9, 2001 04:54 PM ]
posted on June 9, 2001 04:53:41 PM
loosecannon, I think it does matter what you sell. My small items are one of a kind and many of my books are usually OOP and from the 70's or older. I believe if I tried selling irons, packing materials or computers I would have to carry a credit card company.
That being said, it wouldn't be PP again.
After reading the Wall Street Journal article a few months ago, knowing PP isn't insured and they don't have good standing with the BBB in their area I wouldn't want to use them for buying either. If the latter two things have changed and the WSJ
posted a retraction, would someone please enlighten me!
They became popular using the ole dangled carrot method. I was uncomfortable when I had sellers making deals to get me to sign up so they could get their rebate. The worst was the guy who told me we could both make 5.00 and after I signed up I could have half of his! Yah right!
As for using a credit card because there is no money in your bank account or you only get paid every couple of weeks....I don't even want to go there. But I will! There
isn't anything on eBay that should be purchased when someone doesn't have enough money in their bank account or under their pillow.
If we were talking a grocery or natural foods store or a drug store that would be altogether different! Using a credit card when you are low on funds would be different in those places.
We are like sponges in America, soaking up everything multi-national or national companies feed us. I think it is time to think for ourselves. If that means I lose a sale or two because someone can't afford a book or antique widget right now, good! Maybe they will use their last dime to buy organic veggies instead! Time to quit being sheep.
Off my soapbox. Lab Rat 4 gmos
[Edited because it was companies not comnapnies.]
[ edited by labrat4gmos on Jun 9, 2001 04:58 PM ]
posted on June 9, 2001 05:06:15 PM
The competition is such that I can shop around and find a seller that accepts electronic payments. Sellers requiring me to pay BidPay $5.00 or make a trip to purchase a money order are at a serious disadvantage in their sales with me if their is any competition.
On-line payments. Who needs it? Sellers in a competitive market who are thinking like buyers.
posted on June 9, 2001 05:08:35 PM
checks would not be a good idea in my category. wish they were.
usps money orders are my favorite form of payment, although sometimes it takes a while for them to arrive.
i'm thinking of offering bidpay. $5 seems steep, though, unless you sell international. so far only one buyer has paid that way. who knows, maybe more would if i stated bidpay in my auctions. i had no problem at all accepting bidpay, thought it was great from my end.
i don't know how much not offering online cc payments would affect my selling rate; i started late and they already had a fairly good foothold, so i've nothing to compare it with. i'd say a third pay via paypal, the rest various types of money orders. not at all anxious to experiment with anything that might descrease sales.
but i do have to make some changes. i'd go for billpoint, but it bothers me that they charge to transfer funds to my bank account.
paypal bugs me because i don't like the way they do things; they're not straightforward. got an email from them today - 'paypal protects your privacy.' but of course they couldn't be bothered to email me about the rate increase. THAT i had to learn here! that really bugs me.
so i don't know yet what i'm going to do. maybe only bidpay and money orders. maybe continue as i am but charge a $.50 handling fee built into shipping rate and a discount of that for money orders. i dunno.
posted on June 9, 2001 05:32:41 PM
labat
[i]As for using a credit card because there is no money in your bank account or you only get paid every couple of weeks....I don't even want to go there. But I will! There
isn't anything on eBay that should be purchased when someone doesn't have enough money in their bank account or under their pillow.[/i]
If we were talking a grocery or natural foods store or a drug store that would be altogether different! Using a credit card when you are low on funds would be different in those places
I disagree cash may be short today but fine next week it's called cash flow. Just becouse I don't have the cash in hand 7 days after the auction ends does not mean I can't afford the item and evan if I cant that is not the sellers business
My goal as a seller is to get every dollar I can for a Item Its up to the buyer manage his finances
When I had a shop I had a woman that worked for me that could have sold ice to the proverbial eskimo We had migrant workers who shopped with us one day a older migrant came in to return a 39.00 item that was defective...she turned it around and sold him a upgraded 150.00 replacment I never would have showed him the more expensive item .At first I was going to step in but then I looked at his face he was so proud to be buying the higher price item it would have been wrong for me to say anyting it was his money, he worked hard for it and he spent it how he wanted.
every once in a while he would stick his head in and tell her how much he was enjoying it
posted on June 9, 2001 05:37:55 PM
hmph. so i decide to go to pp's website about the privacy thing. this is from that page, under 'our contacts with paypal customers':
"We communicate with users on a regular basis via e-mail to provide requested services, and we also communicate by phone to resolve customer complaints or investigate suspicious transactions. We use your e-mail address to confirm your opening of a PayPal account, to send you notice of payments that you send or receive through PayPal (including referral payments described below), to send information about important changes to our products and services, and to send notices and other disclosures required by law."
so 'simplifying' the rates wasn't an important change to their products and services?
damon, if you're reading this, you know i like you, but ...
posted on June 9, 2001 05:39:36 PM
>There
isn't anything on eBay that should be purchased when someone doesn't have enough money in their bank account or under their pillow. <
You said a mouth full here. Other than the few folks who pay their CC bills in FULL-EVERY month (for them it is a convenience), most people making non-emergency purchaces on credit (other than their home and car) are better off buying a money order for less than a dollar, than paying CC interest.
Of course, most sellers want the money, even from those who are putting themselves in debt to buy something they could do with out.
I KNOW that the items I sell are NOT things people NEED to survive.
Just kidding.