posted on June 10, 2001 03:55:46 PM new
I saw an auction today where the seller said he/she only accepts USA bids. He/she noted in the terms of the auction that any int'l bidders who go ahead and bid anyway will have a $20.00 administrative fee tacked onto the final amount in addition to shipping. That is one way to cut out int'l bidders.
On the bright side, just look at this seller as one less person to compete against in the international marketplace.
posted on June 10, 2001 04:07:22 PM new
intl shipping is more work.
not just filling out the right paper(varies with weight),you must first look up the country and find the preferred method of shipment(usp,dhl,federal express,ups surface,global priority,air),not every country and city is served by global priority shipping.
then comes customs fee,private carrier usually includes the customs duty in their fee.
all these needed to be relayed to the customer.
also payment -it could take longer,if paid via billpoint,one extra dollar.
also insurance is double that of domestic.
better way of packing the goods as you never know ??
so extra few dollars is not that much to ask for,seller also run the risk of having a banque check his bank cannot clear for him or cash stolen in transit.
why must we always have to give ourselves and our time and labor away free?this is not third world country?my wholesalers always ship usp,reason-they cannot afford to have thier employee stand in line at the post office,employees are paid to WORK,NOT STAND IN LINE!!!!
posted on June 11, 2001 12:15:51 AM new
I just pray that all vendors come to think like hwahwahwah! So I can have all the int'l business to MYSELF!
I have sent at least a hundred shipments overseas. And never been a dollar poorer because of it.
Customs forms take a New York minute, as I just fly though them. $1-5 gift on all of 'em and quick scribble everything else.
I never get charged any customs, so I don't see what the big deal is. Anyone with a 4th grade education can use the USPS International calculator at their web site for costs, and the only skill then is learning to read a scale.
Packaging? If you pack well in the first place it shouldn't be a problem. Kansas can be just as bad as Kosovo...
posted on June 11, 2001 12:23:29 AM new
Absolutely an administrative charge works if you have international bidders going against your wishes and bidding anyway. This is an enormous problem for us sellers. I'll be damned if I'm going to wait for 3 weeks for a $10 payment from Timbucktoo and fill out a customs form and deal with potential communication problems on a bidder whom I asked not to bid to begin with. Bidders know it's easier for you to just eat it and go ahead and sell internationally rather than to relist and ask for a relisting fees. You may go ahead and sell to the world, but in reality, for most of us, it is a very problematic experience and one that is not worth the extra effort. I'm not ethnocentric but I am realistic...my time is money.
posted on June 11, 2001 12:25:45 AM new
and snakebait....live in boyfriend is an atty. You do realize, of course, that you can get into BIG legal problems fraudulating a customs form? (stating it's a gift)...that's a very humanitarian gesture for a seller but not a very bright thing to do.
posted on June 11, 2001 12:32:09 AM new
and squinkle...they probably got that advice from me where I frequently post it on the antiques chatboard. I'm a very good, high feedback, member of ebay voices seller and if I find myself having bidders who disregard "U.S. sales only" I add the caveat, "U.S. sales only...all international bidders will be charged a $25 administrative fee - no exception." You'd be surprised how many people's reading skills improve with this simple gesture. <p>I have no difficulty with those of you who wish to sell internationally but I do defend my right not to and insist that buyers respect it.
posted on June 11, 2001 04:30:21 AM new
dhmagician,
I did not intend to step on any toes. Actually, I thought the wording of the auction that I saw was very clever. It appeared to be a very effective way of accomplishing what the seller intended. I even considered using the phrase myself on a few of the auctions that I run as "USA only".
posted on June 11, 2001 05:34:21 AM new
I've shipped international many times. It takes approximately 1 minute to fill out a customs form. You don't have to find out how much customs will be, your customer knows that he has to pay it. Most of them are experienced buyers.
Most of my international people had US checking accounts. No problems with checks. One guy had his bank wire a payment to Chase Manhattan Bank and I received the bank's check the next day.
Packing is the same as shipping to the US. Insurance isn't available to most countries, if at all, so the statement made here that insurance is double is false.
Looking up a preferred mailing rate on the computer shouldn't take longer than a few minutes. All you have to do is put in the country and choose the cheapest rate for the least travel time. Someone said it took a fourth grade education, which is right on the mark.
I've found people that moan and groan about international have never even shipped international.
A $5 paperwork fee is to discourage international bidders, but we have to remember, more than half our bidders don't read the description.
posted on June 11, 2001 10:55:33 AM new
This past week or more I've had a large increase in the numbers of international buyers, both on ebay and Amazon Marketplace. If I said "no international" I would be out significant bucks by now. There IS an additional workload involved, and I could see a busy seller prefering not to deal with it if they don't need the business. I still find it fun and worth the extra few steps...plus, international customers just never deadbeat.
posted on June 11, 2001 11:31:09 AM new
I do ship internationally, but anyone who thinks there aren't increased risks/headaches associated with it are either posturing or delusional. Had a Canadian this morning pay by PayPal, does not include his registered address because he wants it shipped to his sister visiting MA. According to PayPal's rules for international sales I'm at risk for having my account closed by not shipping to the registered address. There is just one example of the increased risk of accepting International CC payments no matter where there from.
One of my first International shipments to England took 30+ days to get there despite it being sent Global Priority. By the time it did arrive I had already refunded the customer for his collectible magazine.
Shipped a 6 lb printer to Germany and had it returned a few weeks later with a long note in German. Finally figured out that German customs sent it back (sliced open) because there weren't 2 copies of an invoice inside. I paid an extra $45 to reclaim and ship back to the customer. Read those rules at the bottom of the International rate calculator because contrary to what many will tell you International shipping is more involved than just slapping a form on a box.
Before I had a U-Pic account I shipped a $25 t-shirt to Australia that was promptly stolen by their postal service and replaced with an Italian magazine. Unlike a domestic shipment there wasn't a damn thing I could do about that, fortunately the buyer didn't ask for a refund (I was prepared to give one if asked). Not offering international insurance doesn't absolve you from all responsibility or Negs for that matter.
Let's not forget the International bidders that e-pay using the domestic shipping cost quoted in the listing. Had that happen on a heavy item to Japan (one of the more expensive zones).
Language barriers: Had to exchange 10+ emails back and forth with a buyer from Italy because he couldn't understand any English (I don't even know how he bid). Finally had to resort to Altavista's Babelfish translator to get my message across.
I stopped shipping Internationally for awhile to simplify my life until such time as I got a U-Pic account. Sellers who don't ship internationally have made a decision that they feel is best for them and shouldn't be ridiculed for it, especially by sellers who have yet to pay the price of a transaction gone wrong.
posted on June 11, 2001 12:20:46 PM new
I just recently added an international surcharge of 2.00 to my auctions. The reason for this is primarily packaging costs. I use Priority Mail only for U.S. customers. I have purchased quality boxes for non-Priority shipments and this helps defer the extra cost. Sure, if I had fixed prices on my items I would obviously factor this into my price. I feel 2.00 is a very fair amount when you consider all that is required to complete these shipments.
posted on June 11, 2001 12:25:54 PM new
bemused, why delusional or posturing? Some of us never had a problem. That's reality for us.
Sorry you had so many bad experiences. If I had that many I probably wouldn't enjoy it either, but to call people who do like it and never had a problem delusional .. I don't know.
posted on June 11, 2001 12:35:46 PM new
I'm referring to the holier than thou attitude that greets those who say they don't ship International. I've been shipping International for a couple of years now and do value those customers. Never having experienced a difficultly doesn't mean they don't exist. Telling people that all you need to worry about is what customs form to use is doing them a disservice.
posted on June 11, 2001 12:44:39 PM new
As always, the answer is..."it depends".
It depends on what you are selling, the profit margin, and your mix of domestic and international customers.
If you are a high volume, low margin seller with primarily US customers, it probably wouldn't pay to deal with international sales. When your profit margin is a couple of bucks on each item, ANYTHING that takes time means you lost your profit on that item, and that includes:
1. having to go to the post office to mail the item
2. lengthy exchanges of email
3. hassles with customs officials
4. having to look up individual mail rates versus the us rates you know by heart
etc., etc.
Yes, you may get the occasional bid increment from an international sale (whoopie, an extra fifty cents!), but it doesn't take too many minutes to eat up that profit.
If I were selling full-time and fit a profile like the above, i'd add on a fee too. Its not "brazen", its good business.
No "one size fits all" answers to this question...
posted on June 11, 2001 12:49:32 PM new
PLEASE DO NOT JUST LOOK AT YOUR OWN PAST EXPERIENCES AND SAID INTL SHIPPING IS EASY AND A 4TH GRADER CAN DO IT,it is like driving forward using your rear view mirror!!
USPS offers international insurance ,and the rate is twice that of domestic,please refer to usps instruction for details,unless they eliminate this coverage which i am not aware of.
As for registered mail to HONG KONG,insurance is limited to a small amount,usps said it is just HONG KONG,why you can speculate as you wish!!
I have customer who mailed cash registered mail from singapore just to arrive at our local post office with envelope slit open and cash removed,our local postal staff has to reseal it with a notice-open when arrived at this office.
wisdom of this incident offered by usps postal worker-EVERY ONE AT USPS KNOWS REGISTERED MAIL IS PRESTIGEOUS MAIL,so it is worth stealing!!!
a few years back,overseas customers will send
personal check drawn on local bank in us fund and we not being worldly enough,tried to deposit in our bank just to be told it would cost us 25 dollars for clearance or no clearance at all.
one bitter ebay dealer shipped 400 dollars worth of goods and found out the customer check drawn on english bank could not be cleared by his bank,he spent months trailing this englishman activities on ebay and warn everyone .
we have come a long way,both sellers and buyers,but there will always be somethin- how about postal strike in canada a few years back??it could be anywhere .
billpoint does charge one extra dollar for charges from overseas customers.
i am still hearing from my uk customer who has not received her poster in 18 inches mailing tube,it has been 2 months?
we all have different philosophy and cost structure to conduct business our way,some recognise more expenses of running a business such as insurance,depreciation of automobile going to post office,paying someone to stand in line at post office,etc etc.
i do not think an extra 5 dollars is excessive,depends on what the item is - if it were a large bronze statue,bulky machine??
dont forget email does not always get delivered,some shopowner will pick up the phone and call -thats a few dollars already.
we dont know what awaits us in furture dealing,lets not speculate what awaits other sellers!
posted on June 11, 2001 01:57:51 PM new
I am an international buyer & seller (Canadian) who does not charge any handling fees to my US customers. We international customers are a minority, and I for one would lose 90% of my business if I charged extra "handling fees" for my US customers. I do have the responsibility of filling out customs forms, but I always take extra care with packaging, so would not charge extra for that. I charge a flat $5.00 US shipping to all my US auction winners, no matter the weight of the item being shipped. Shipping usually averages about that amount, and if it is less, I consider that a handling charge. It all averages out.
I do sell internationally, and I inform the customer of the cost of air mail, and they pay the actual amount of shipping, or they have the option to pay $5.00 US and have it sent by surface, which is cheap but takes a long time. International customers do expect to pay more for shipping, and they usually factor that into their bids.
As a Canadian auction buyer, it is frustrating to find so many auctions that I am excluded from bidding on.
Our troubles with auction winners are usually US bidders, and the international winners seldom give us trouble. Stupidity & dishonesty are not confined to any particular country. The language barrier has been a problem, though we have dealt successfully with buyers using the Babelfish translator in the past.
It certainly is up to you how you handle international bidders, but I hope that you can see things from our point of view, too.
edited to remove signature
[ edited by kengraham on Jun 11, 2001 01:58 PM ]
posted on June 11, 2001 02:22:17 PM new
I too charge 2.00 handling fee for International Sales. I do this for several reasons;
1. Almost everything I sell is unique at any given time so buying boxes in bulk would be difficult and probably fill my garage. Therefore I use Priority. With International sales I have to go chase down a box.
2. It does take extra time, and e-mails whether it's across the border or across the ocean. The form itself is not that big a deal.
3. At one point I had in my TOS US only, but it was generally ignored. Now that I state 2.00 everybody sees it (Amazing!!).
I do enjoy chatting with my International customers, they've all paid promptly with no fuss. Often I don't charge the fee if I already had a box, or if the item didn't need one and no one has complained. It has just simplified my life.
I do wonder at times if I'm losing any sales by doing this, and have thought about changing it but for now that's where I'm at.
I did think in the beginning of putting like 25.00 fee to just not have to deal with it, but 2.00 is fair and it's upfront.
Jay
posted on June 11, 2001 03:03:26 PM new
loosecannon you must spend all your time on these message boards looking for something to grip about you havn't had a transaction on eBay since Oct. 99 I for one charge a $5.00 customs paper work fee it takes 1 hour for me just to drive to the post office and back much less the 1/2 hour in the post office. plus the extra time to do the actual paper work ( and not telling lies on it like some on this board) Federal Prisons are full of people who lie on customs forms. I for one am trying to make a living on eBay. I have three business dealing with import and export and in the past 35 years that I have been in this business Custom Brokers Have been charging a fee to do the paper work for you. Come on wake up and smell the Roses. I get paid for the work I do.
Gemtrader2
Not my eBay user name.
posted on June 11, 2001 03:49:56 PM new
as a fairly new seller, I do sell to anyone anywhere, but add the caveat of "all sales final" to international bidders and state so in the auction.
I don't add any extra fees.
posted on June 11, 2001 04:23:43 PM new
I love Intl bidders! Only takes a minute or so to fill out the little green slip. Big Deal! Boxes; I can get them all over the place for free. So the only thing that I spend money on is the clear tape.
Call me crazy, but a bid is a bid....It doesnt matter to me. Some of the biggest spenders out there are from Japan. On some of my items, if I didnt ship Intl it wouldnt even be worth my time to list. The Japanese go crazy for certain pieces of vintage clothing and I am not going to deny them a chance to give me their money!!
posted on June 11, 2001 06:16:15 PM new
The amount of forms involved is so slight, it doesn't even merit the word "paperwork" to describe it. It is one simple form which should take anyone 5 minutes (at MOST) to fill out. As for any invoice, where required, this should take no more than 10 minutes to type in a person's address, an item name, and a dollar amount into windows notepad and print 2 copies.
To charge $5.00 for this is just beyond belief to me!!
I'm with snakebait, please keep alienating your foreign bidders, that's just more for me !!
hwahwahwa, please post the reference to these mysterious double insurance rates. The only rates I found were 1.85, 2.60, 3.60, 4.60 ... as opposed to domestic rates which are 1.10, 2.00, 3.00, 4.00, .... Yes the rates are somewhat higher for international, but far from double.
posted on June 11, 2001 06:34:00 PM new
Okay - International shipments - If you mail Global Priority, there is no insurance. If you mail it surface there is a $1.85 charge up to $50 for Hong Kong. What's the big deal? Surface takes 3-7 weeks, while Global Priority doesn't. International bidders expect to pay more.
Customs forms take exactly one-two minutes to fill out unless you're doing something wrong. You put your customer's name and address down the value of the item and your address. That's it. How hard is that? Come on folks, for people to take longer than a minute, there must be a comprehension or writing problem. This is not putting "gift" because that will earn you a prison sentence if it isn't a gift. Again, international bidders expect to pay customs. They don't pay it to you, they pay it upon delivery. Unless you're ripping their eyes out with "book" value declarations, there should be no surprises to them.
=====================================
PLEASE DO NOT JUST LOOK AT YOUR OWN PAST EXPERIENCES AND SAID INTL SHIPPING IS EASY AND A 4TH GRADER CAN DO IT,it is like driving forward using your rear view mirror!
Whose experiences are we supposed to look at? We are all giving our own experiences here. At least I thought we were. We can only say what we know. We don't know what each other has done until it's posted. This is how we learn.
If hwahwahwahwa's having all those problems with their post office, perhaps the international bidders should wrap their money a little better. I had one very smart girl put it in plastic taped to the inside of a christmas card and she sent that in an envelope. No one was the wiser. There was no bulk and no open envelopes. I've sent money that way. No problems.
As far as bank and checks, if the check is drawn on a US bank and the sellers banks in the US, there shouldn't be any problems other than the typical deadbeat problems we all have at one time or another. Am I allowed to say I never had a bounced check? I mean, that's drawing from past experiences.
Telling someone that all they have to worry about is a customs form is a disservice. Perhaps, but aren't all sales like that no matter where they are? We can get deadbeats from the US. Packages can get lost, broken, mutilated or eaten. I had one stepped on from UPS! Crushed and beaten to death it was. The driver told me to call it in if the contents were destroyed. Fortunately they were okay, but this was a $200 item we're talking about.
I've never had a bounced check, never had a bad international sale, never had cash stolen in the mail. Does this make it a perfect situation for everyone? No, just for me.
Boxes can be had at your local grocery store or chain store on truck day. You don't have to buy any boxes. I get my best boxes in the frozen food section when they unload the trucks. You can even get boxes at the post office! And some, like Global Priority are absolutely FREE!
posted on June 11, 2001 07:19:11 PM new
Its interesting the number of people who focus on the actual time to fill out the custom form and then declare the "paperwork fee" to be outrageous. As has been said at least once in this forum, there are many of us who have to travel to the post office to mail international items personally, instead of leaving it in the mailbox. Maybe some people have carriers who will take these items, but mine doesn't, so it now takes me an extra 30 minutes to send an international shipment.
Lets see, for someone with a similar drive, $5 pay for 30 minutes work..$10 per hour. Yee ha! (and of course, many people in rural areas have a longer drive...).
And, of course, as often happens in TOS, the phrase "paperwork charge" may be used to cover all the associated extra costs of shipping internationally, which have also been described earlier in this thread. AFter all, you probably wouldn't recommend that they put "$5 fee to cover paperwork time, driving to the post office, running babelfish to make sense of your emails, checking into postal regulations for your country...". It makes more sense to be concise.
The bottom line: each seller is unique, so people who are derogratory towards another's practices without an intimate knowledge of their circumstances are in severe danger of jumping to conclusions on inadequate data.
posted on June 11, 2001 07:28:42 PM newcaptainkirk your point is well taken. It may be more work for some people to deal with int'l shipping, and I certainly feel you should be compensated for time spent. I guess I just have problems with the terminology.
The term "handling fee" has been pretty well defined by now to include time for post office runs, gas, envelopes, stamps, and so forth. The term "paperwork fee" to me implies just that, time to fill out paperwork.
So let's call it what it is. I think foreign bidders are smart enough to know it doesn't take 2 seconds to fill out these forms and will bypass an auction with a 5 dollar "paperwork fee". All IMO of course.
A bit of advice to pass on to your customers. Tell them to not ever, ever put cash in anything remotely resembling a card envelope. Better to feed a gremlin after midnight! Doing that turns those nice postal people into ghouls who will suck the life blood out of your business. Namely your customers cash. In cretin school the first thing they teach the inmates is that anything that looks like a birthday or holiday card probably has cash in it. Not many grannys send cashiers checks to little Johnny! Tell them to send it in a normal envelope wrapped in normal paper and optimally looking like business correspondence. And to avoid arrival on the first of the month when possible. Then anything looking like a check is fair game for a different type of predator!
As far as customs. If I ship a $2 book to Albania and list it as a $1 gift, its not a problem to US customs since this country is not collecting duty. This may result in the collapse of the Albanian economy and my pic on the most wanted list in Tirana, but I've never heard of anyone being extradited for this! Then again I never include paperwork with international items. Or US items either. A good habit to get into...
