posted on June 25, 2001 11:43:15 AM newEffective Date: June 30, 2001
On 6/30/01, PayPal will launch Community Participation as an enhancement to our existing Member Information feature. Community Participation will measure how active a member has been within the PayPal community by showing the number of unique Verified PayPal members with whom he has transacted. A member's Community Participation will be reflected by two different numbers; the Seller Number will show how many unique Verified members have paid him, the Buyer Number will relate how many unique Verified members he has paid. This information can be used to help evaluate the trustworthiness of other PayPal members, as members who have transacted with the community over a long period of time are unlikely to have been conducting fraudulent transactions.
What kind of crap is this??
What Bank or other financial institution would reveal to the world any part of your transaction history with that finanacial institution without a court order? Are they out of their minds? How dare they do this!
posted on June 25, 2001 11:56:15 AM new
Holy Horse Pucky!
I am not having a problem with this, so much.
Hmmm not liking the account type info, that's between paypal and myself.
Otherwise, no dramatrauma here.
Sorry Boriller, make your case and I will listen.
Thanks!
posted on June 25, 2001 11:56:25 AM new
Personally, it's NOBODY'S BUSINESS how long I've been a member! This is not a club or entertainment organization, like Boy Scouting -- this is your tax-paying business having its private information given out over the Internet!
Think about it.
Before this, if a POTENTIAL buyer was curious for all of that information from you are wrote to you to get it -- would you have given out to him/her your businesses private banking info?
I'd like a lot of the personal info on my ex-, where she banks, how long she's been a customer, how many transactions that she's made, etc. It would really come in useful. Of course, there's a slight matter of CONFIDENTIALITY involved and I'm not likely to get it without said court order.
posted on June 25, 2001 12:24:42 PM new"I don't see how, in any way, this thread deals with eBay???"
The majority of my PayPal buyers come from auctions on eBay.
Satisfied now?
----
I asked the question: would you have given out this personal, private financial information to a potential bidder that woud normally require a court order to do so?
Maybe. Maybe yes, maybe no.
The POINT is that YOU are the one who gets to decide what sort of private business information that gets disseminated to anyone else. Now, YOU HAVE BEEN TAKEN OUT OF THE LOOP! You don't even have a right to the level of confindentiality of your own private business' finanacial information. You have no say-so -- and you don't think that this is bad?
Don't show the # of transactions we've done. Instead show us something useful like how many chargebacks have been initiated by the account, or against the account. That way we know who NOT TO transact with. The idea is to make the community safer, isn't it???
Sarah,
Point taken. Changed the text.
[ edited by eSeller004 on Jun 25, 2001 12:52 PM ]
posted on June 25, 2001 12:52:03 PM new
Hi eseller004,
Thank you for the comments.
We could not release information on charge backs filed, as this would be a privacy violation (much for the same reason that we do not supply particulars on number of transactions,dollar amount of transactions,etc).
The Community number is a number just advising of how many Verified PayPal members that they have conducted business with.
posted on June 25, 2001 12:52:42 PM new
As an International user I cannot at present be verified. Will the new policy discriminate against users outside USA?
Then what good is showing the # of transactions done with other users? For all we know 1/2 the transactions could have resulted in chargebacks. We'd be walking into a minefield dealing with the individual that seems to be on the up and up due to the # of "successful" transactions. You've got the right idea, but you're providing the wrong information, to say nothing of the fact it violates privacy for no good reason.
You could easily change your terms of service to indicate you'll be displaying the # of chargebacks the accounts been involved with. Policies are changed every day.
posted on June 25, 2001 01:10:00 PM newThe Community number is a number just advising of how many Verified PayPal members that they have conducted business with.
Might as well substitute:
how many Verified PayPal members live in the same state as the member.
for
how many Verified PayPal members that they have conducted business with.
posted on June 25, 2001 01:16:59 PM new
Before anyone gets their "undies" in a bunch over this, consider the following information that is collected when you purchase an item with your credit card in a retail store.
Credit card information
Time purchased
Where purchased
Brand
Income Level
Home demagraphics
Mail list matching
Store purchase volume and frequency
Buying patterns
Account balance
and much more.
All of this information is readily available to those who wish to have access to this information.
Wake up! Big brother is watching. If you want to hide from him, manke sure you pay cash. Otherwise accpet it as life in the new millennium.
posted on June 25, 2001 01:17:38 PM new
Hi eseller004,
Thanks, again, for your comments.
We are not releasing transaction information to other users (about any user), as this would violate many privacy laws.
Disclosing the number of charge backs received (or filed) against a party would be a violation of privacy laws and it would not be released to any party.
The participation numbers simply indicate how many unique PayPal users (verified) the person has conducted business with, which would help users gauge potential risk.
posted on June 25, 2001 01:19:55 PM new
PayPayDamon, pass these thoughts along too:
+ My Ex- still owes me Child Support. She has a PayPal account. Now I can see what sort of income she has on the side and I can use it in court -- all thanks to PayPal!
+ One of my employees is not working very hard and I suspect the he's got a second job or other source of income. I'll bet he's been spending company time doing eBay. I'll just go check PayPal so I can see what he's been up to.
People may complain that this is simply the camel sticking its nose into the tent. But what everyone has to remember is that nose was when PayPal first gave out private account info to anyone: it was whether yuou are a Verified User or not. I wasn't happy with that info getting out, as it is a PRIVATE MATTER between PayPal and my lawfully registered, taxpaying business. Now we have both of the camel's legs into the tent. What next? Is PayPal going to "volunteer" your banking info; i.e. where you bank with and the details, just to "assure" POTENTIAL bidders that you are legitimate? Isn't that what the VERIFIED program was all about?
This is a load of crap and I expect it will be getting PayPal into hot water in court.
posted on June 25, 2001 01:24:34 PM new
p.s. I also do not want my competitors on auction web sites to know how well I'm doing. This is Industrial Sabotage. Pass THAT along to your PayPal lawyers!
posted on June 25, 2001 01:30:23 PM new
Everyone has options, so if the policy is troubling to members, perhaps they would be better off with their own merchant accounts.
The information Paypal is supplying is not a big deal and is no different than the typical data that is bought,sold, traded and shared everyday by all credit card companies and issuers. It's known as freedom of information.
Please show respect to all members of the AW Community, including paypaldamon
Your tone is becoming caustic - I realize this is an issue you are concerned about, however, please try and express your thoughts with the basic rules of etiquette in mind.
posted on June 25, 2001 01:38:18 PM new
Hi Borillar,
PayPayDamon, pass these thoughts along too:
+ My Ex- still owes me Child Support. She has a PayPal account. Now I can see what sort of income she has on the side and I can use it in court -- all thanks to PayPal!
(transactions,transaction amounts, and the like are not displayed. The only information being shared is the number of verified PayPal users they have done with business with)
+ One of my employees is not working very hard and I suspect the he's got a second job or other source of income. I'll bet he's been spending company time doing eBay. I'll just go check PayPal so I can see what he's been up to.
(You wouldn't be able to gather any information, save how long the account has been active and the number of Verified PayPal users that they have done business with).
No sensitive information, such as bank account information, will ever be supplied to another user.
posted on June 25, 2001 02:12:29 PM new"No sensitive information, such as bank account information, will ever be supplied to another user."
This is from the very person who assured us all that PayPal would always be FREE and that no one would EVER be required to have a business account?
I'm sorry if your assurances don't reassure me. As far as I'm concerned, that IS "sensitive information" that should not be given out to the general public. If buyers do not trust PayPal and my Verified Account status, then the problem is obviously NOT MINE! And you won't resolve the issue by violating the confidentiality with which my business transacts business with PayPal.
posted on June 25, 2001 02:13:01 PM new
How would you react if you received this following e-mail?
============================================
Dear Sir or Madam:
I saw your auction on ebay #1234567890 and if I place a bid and win the auction, I intend on using PayPal to pay you. But I am concerned about your authenticity, even though you have a Verified PayPal account. I need the following information from you concerning your business's PayPal account:
1) I want to know how long your business has been a member of PayPal; including the date that you started your account.
2) I want to know more about your account with PayPal. I want to know what type of an account that your business has with PayPal, not just that you are Verified - I can see that for myself.
3) I also want to know how many Buyers you've had; that is, how much business have you been doing. You don't have to give me an exact dollar figure, just tell me how many buyers you've had before.
I want you to know that I may not bid on your auction at all, even if you supply this information. In fact, you will never even know who I am or that I know this information.
Thank you for your time -- I will be waiting expectantly for this info.
Sincerely,
Annonymous
==============================================
I don't know about you, but I'd delete this request for my businesses private banking information. If I was applying for a loan from a financial institution, I would disclose this information to them because it is protected by state and federal regulations.
Are you so willing to give up those protections just to make potential bidders feel better about sending you their money through PayPal? Is it really a good trade-off?
posted on June 25, 2001 03:13:27 PM new
Paypaldamon. You have chosen to ignore my question about discrimination against non USA Paypal users! Why cannot I be verified? Do you want to see my passport? A scan is available on line so that UK Embassies can access my details if it is ever lost or stolen.
[ edited by GreetingsfromUK on Jun 25, 2001 03:23 PM ]
posted on June 25, 2001 03:24:17 PM new
Hi greetingsfromuk,
I have included the information in my end-of-day. Much of the problem would have to do with the fact that verification (for the time being) is limited to domestic users.
