posted on June 25, 2001 11:45:53 PM
Has anyone done figures for the cost of selling on ebay lately? I sat down tonight and crunched some figures for the first half of this year as I wanted to pinpoint why since last summer my profits have slowly dropped and my costs have slowly risen... okay, some of it is relative to poor sales due to the election fiasco, tech stock crashes, dot com layoffs, slumping economy, gas prices etc. etc., but I actually took a close look at the costs of selling on ebay, and since last August, when I started accepting billpoint and they increased fees, I realized I was paying the same for the priviledge of selling on ebay (although I can't sell as much on ebay now as I used to since they have banned so many things...) as I would for a storefront in my town! And, I could save time if I cut out ebay, such as the time it takes for shipping, photography, following up on deadbeats and endless emails and feedbacks.... that is all time I could use for doing things like looking for stock. After I take into account purchase of stock, shipping materials & office supplies, I have to add on between $600 and $800.00 per month for ebay and billpoint fees! Those 30 cent and 55 cent listings sound cheap, but once you add on the commissions and all the hidden fees for things like reserves etc. it ADDS UP!
Help revitalize your town and rent a storefront to sell your crap or open your own website - I have just decided that is what I am going to do - I am winding down on ebay now - it doesn't pay to sell through them anymore!
posted on June 26, 2001 12:10:53 AM
Hi font. If it works for you, then GO FOR IT!
We do ebay so we can be HOME and NOT in a store (or a corporation). We can ebay while homeschooling our kids, have 3 family meals, go fishing, care for our horses,
play with/read/wear/use the inventory before we sell it. We can walk away for an entire day if not longer ANYTIME WE WANT. We can sleep until 10 and work at 3 am in our jammies.
After commuting to the city for years, leaving before 7 am, fighting traffic, getting home after 6 pm, dressing in "real" clothes, waiting for a day off, and
having our kids in toxic training,
EBAY is a BLESSING!
I'm here to stay. Hope your store is a success.
T
BTW, we have been FT for 3+ years, part time for nearly 5...since back when a homemade duct tape wallet was going for 4 bucks and sold EVERY time.
Times ARE hard now.
How about you?
[ edited by jt on Jun 26, 2001 12:16 AM ]
posted on June 26, 2001 12:27:41 AM
Hey jt, I am in the same boat as you, exact same story too.. left the corporate world 3 years ago to take up ebay as a full time job and I was happy most of the time with ebay although I noticed definate stages in its "growth" that didn't please me. However, this past fall I started noticing things just weren't coming together anymore and since April it has been VERY obvious. I am happy it works for you as it worked for me for 2 1/2 years too, but I find I spend a lot of time on ebay for less and less profit. I guess it partly depends on what you sell and the time it takes for you to get the stock, photograph it, describe it, answer emails, package and ship it...but you may want to do a cost and time analysis - you might be surprised that you could do better in another venue - maybe your own website, or a stall at the local antique market - of course it also depends where you live... As for me, I don't think its the answer anymore.
posted on June 26, 2001 12:54:09 AM
I understand font. As long as I have a roof and food and am with my family I don't need anything more. If the roof goes or I lose more than 15 pounds, I will reconsider.
It's what's important I guess. NO price can replace the value of being with my family.
Believe it or not, I was once very very career oriented. Stayed late every day because it was so very important to me. Loved my work. Then one day, 15 years later, ebaying part-time, with a 9 year old I hardly knew anymore and a one year old I had hardly ever seen awake, hubby and I looked at each other and said, "Let's both go home." We told our boss, picked up the kids, and came home.
Here we are three years later. No regrets....not one.
It's not for everyone. It IS a LOT tougher now. I DO spend more hours. The profit margine IS smaller. Going to hang in there anyway.
posted on June 26, 2001 02:58:43 AM
Hang in there fonthill! As I said on another thread and I don't want to be promoting but there is a new guy on the horizon that seems willing to go up against the big guy and do the necessary advertising. It may turn out to be what we've been waiting for.We can only hope!
posted on June 26, 2001 07:52:07 AM
economics 101 -supply and demand.
look at the quantity and the quality of the items being offered on ebay.
pity the newcomers who have just heard of that pot of gold at the end of the ebay rainbow,going to flea markets,garage sales,second hand shops looking for items to sell.
prices in those places have gone up,some are higher than what they sell for on ebay.
it may not be a bad idea to sell on land to folks who want to resell in cyberspace.
it is becoming like musical chairs,we sell to each other and who will be the last holding the bag when the music stops!!!!!
posted on June 26, 2001 08:25:15 AM
I am glad to hear that others are having the same issues. Ebay has become another evil corporate structure -- just like the one I told to take a flying leap 3 years ago! I find I spend more time on ebay now than I did on my 8 - 7 job then... I could weather higher prices for the stuff I sell (that is so true that they are often more expensive these days in shops than what they are on ebay!), I could weather the competition (after all I am a known seller in my field on ebay and am bookmarked by many buyers), I could even weather the increased selling fees, but all together its just a little too much to bear. If there is another venue on the horizon who will make ebay smarten up and deal with real issues, they better hurry! I am going to start with my own online website and see if that works, I have heard from others in my field that they do very well selling that way (Apparently there are tons of buyers who can't stand ebay -- the time looking for things, the sniping, etc., but will gladly buy from on-line websites). Besides, I am a little tired of selling on ebay to dealers who turn around and mark items up 300 - 500% and then boast about it! One dealer was quoted in the ebay magazine of her best buy on ebay being a mint green Courreges dress for $60.00 and reselling it for $900.00 - guess who she bought it from! Of course she didn't mention in the article that she whined about the dress when she got it because it needed drycleaning so we gave her a $20.00 refund for that!
I don't know, it just looks like I exchanged one pair of corporate handcuffs for another...at least with my old boss I could look her in the eye and say that things weren't right, not that she listened any more than my ebay boss...got to try something different...
posted on June 26, 2001 08:57:28 AM
deco100
I to have been following "the new guy on the horizon" since the day he first showed up on another thread, not on AW. Beta testing begins on June 30th, soon to follow with a massive advertising campaign. Lookout eBay!
[ edited by mcjane on Jun 26, 2001 08:58 AM ]
posted on June 26, 2001 09:04:40 AM
Ebay used to get $500 a month from us. Not anymore. We've cut down in the last 3 months to $100 a month worked the B/M stores instead. We're already there with less non related expense. Ebay is saturated in our category. We'll wait for the herds to thin out. ... cause I hate corporate slavery/welfare.
posted on June 26, 2001 09:11:06 AM
Is there a reason you guys aren't saying the name of the other site you keep referring to? Would AW have a problem with that?
I assume you are talking about http://www.gegy.com. I have just been wondering why it hasn't been mentioned here anywhere.
posted on June 26, 2001 09:14:55 AM
Fonthill, I sure hear you. Two years ago I left an interesting and rewarding job to do eBay FT because my teenage son was losing his dad to cancer and needed a lot of extra help to get through life.
Just two months later, Reserve Fees were implemented. This was the beginning of my sense of being nickle-and-dimed to death, I did then create a website which I used in tandem with eBay sales. I had reciprocal links on my auctions and websites, and cultivated different clientele at each. I pay $38 every quarter for my site (I do most of my own site updates). I was able to realize prices much better than I could have on eBay.
During the last two years, I needed the time off to deal with all the personal family stuff and to take a mental break myself. It was nice to be home and have the flexibility, but certainly my income is not what it was. That's okay, I realized it wouldn't be. Also, one drawback to being employed at home is the isolation. As a single person, that's rougher on me. I miss the interaction and camraderie of the workplace.
Now eBay feels like a tyrant "employer." Its sense of entitlement boggles my mind, and the way it treats its sellers like something nasty on the bottom of its corporate shoe doesn't set well with me. It's not just the rising fees and cost of doing business, it's the glutted listings and falling clubdowns, it's eBay's lack of understanding and nurturing its sellers, it's uneven SafeHarbor policies. With the latest policy changes prohibiting links to my website, I think now is the time to divest myself of most of my inventory. I am looking forward to going back to the "real world" where I am valued and feel I can contribute something to the world. I will still keep my website and eBay will become only an occasional "hobby" venue.
posted on June 26, 2001 10:22:26 AM
Very interesting posts here! I too left the corporate world; auction selling for me is a PT job relied on for PT income. The rest of the time I'm depleting savings and traveling (Am single and in my 30s).
The time flexibility and being one's own boss are huge intangible benefits, even though the work hours DO get put in and the return per hour of work keeps seemingly falling.
Auction selling has worked okay for my situation, though the long-term viability gets more and more in question. I couldn't imagine trying to run a physical store and always have to be there at certain times; I'd even resist selling sporadically at weekend venues (maybe eBay considers me a captive for that reason). Websites or other online auction venues would be fair game, though.
Corporations just don't get it when it comes to working fewer hours to try to make time for more important things. A good book on the subject is "The Overworked American" by Juliet Schorr. Highly recommended.
posted on June 27, 2001 07:28:20 AM
WOW! - its nice not to feel alone!
Glad to hear (although sorry to hear too) that others are in the exact same boat as I am. That freedom I had for the first 2 1/2 years is gone as I have to sell more and more to keep up to where I was before all the extra charges etc. started making ebay unprofitable. I too have been thinking of trading my ebay hours in for a suit and tie job once again! Never thought I would, and certainly not this soon after I vowed I would never go back! Well, no matter what happens to me or the other posters in this thread....it indicates there is a trend of ebayers who just don't see the rosy future they once did.
posted on June 27, 2001 07:38:03 AM
I left eBay a long time ago now, or so it seems. And what a relief it was. There seems to be a lot of good alternatives floating around out there trying to catch the ever increasing eBay fallout. However, it really boggles my mind that no other company actually goes all out to advertise their site. Makes me think they're all small time players after all is said and done.
I personally like ePier - probably because it's a lot like eBay, but also because it has some wonderful user friendly features. But its still a slow go there. Just a wee bit of advertising would go a long way for the ePier folks, but they are like all the rest - silent!
I'm also watching gegy.com with interest. Time will tell whether or not they will be "just another contender" or not.
But one thing is certain. eBay, and eBay sellers (nothing personal - I simply won't spend my hard earned money feeding a corporate monster any more) are NOT getting one more blessed penny out of my pocket any more!
I'm also wondering why no other site has jumped on the advertising bandwagon at this point. Surely to goodness someone will at least TRY to catch some of the eBay fallout!
posted on June 27, 2001 09:57:34 AM
I think that eBay has largely forced sellers out by catering to the cheapskates. Sellers don't want to pay fees and bidders want everything for next to nothing. Yes I like bargain too, and I think the fees are starting to cut off the profitability of those who want to offer them.
Economics 101: Ultimately, you can't support a business this way--someone has to pay the freight. A great something for nothing makes for more to crow about than it does for most bottom lines.
The answer to rising costs is simple: charge more. I have begun raising both my shipping fees and my starting prices. Overall my sell through has not suffered.
One trick is to quote the approximate new retail price of an item--this helps justify your rate in the mind of the bidder. On a collectible you can cite the book/going price as a benchmark. People can and do recognize a reasonable value.
posted on June 27, 2001 12:00:09 PM
mballai - you bet I have already done that, in case you haven't noticed ebay has become an opening bid marketplace as more and more sellers put opening bids that in reality are the selling price. This is due in part to avoid "el cheapo" bargain hunters who scoop up items via snipes, and also to avoid reserve price listings. As for charging more on shipping - obviously you haven't had the screamers. I sell from Canada, so already my shipping is slightly more than national U.S. shipping rates so I can't make profit there, although I am taking advantage of a lower exchange rate in my shipping quotes to cover the purchase of some shipping materials, and believe me its marginal! I still get the screamers that don't like the shipping charges. Also, frankly I really detest sellers who obviously make a profit on the shipping, and I don't mean by a dollar or two. I had a Christmas ornament shipped to me from California for $9.00 and when it arrived, there was a $4.00 stamp on it! THAT IS OUTRAGEOUS! and the seller got a neutral from me for that obvious price gouge. As for selling cheap items, you are absolutely right! I no longer sell items that would get less than $10.00 on ebay. They are better at a garage sale because its not worth the time and trouble and cost of listing. I sell collectibles, and trust me, those price guides are full of hooey. Besides a lot of buyers on ebay are dealers in swanky shops in New York and LA, and they have to make their profit margin, so they are not going to pay you even half of what they can sell it for. Price guides are very general and should only be used as a guideline. I have sold lots of things for WAY more than the price guides list and LOTS and LOTS of things for WAY less.
WHen it comes down to it, the margin for profit has shrunk largely by ebay costs -- insertion fees, commissions on selling prices, reserve fees, now photo fees (although I still post mine the old fashioned way using html code), features like double listings, billpoint fees etc. We sell a lot of items on commission for other dealers as well and charge 25% for the service. We are no longer going to take commissions, unless we can get 25% plus a flat $2.00 fee per item to cover ebay costs - it ain't worth it no more!
posted on June 27, 2001 01:32:29 PM
Well, I'm one buyer that can help both the fonthills and the "new guys," in the sense that even as a buyer, I've gotten fed up with eBay (downtimes, auction-related spam, the "Reco" engine, DoubleClick, ignored marketing preferences) enough to have gradually lowered my bidding to perhaps a third of my previous level, and have instead gone out to look at offline venues (antique/collectible stores, flea markets, shows, even the occasional auction), which I never did before eBay started annoying me so much.
I didn't like Yahoo requiring CC during sign-up, don't trust Amazon any further than I could throw a 737 when it comes to my personal information, and haven't seen enough seller and items at other sites to hang around enough, much less sign up (yeah, I know, the chicken and egg problem).
Give me a site with a good amount of sellers, no direct marketers behind the scenes of the site, buyer email addresses that are only given out to the seller, at least as much stability (I don't expect 100%, but hope for better than eBay's), and less feature flutter -- gee, except for the release of bidder addresses, I think I just described what eBay was like a couple years ago -- and I'll definitely take notice. (My apologies if I'm expecting too much. )
Actually, I'll probably keep an eye on the intended new #1 anyway, knowing it will take some time to find its fullest wings and soar.
Good luck to all on whatever venture they are in.
----
What's being done in the name of direct marketing nowadays is crazy.
The above are all just my opinions, except where I cite facts as such.
Oh, I am not dc9a320 anywhere except AW. Any others are not me.
Is eBay is changing from a world bazaar into a bizarre world?
[ edited by dc9a320 on Jun 27, 2001 01:33 PM ]
posted on June 27, 2001 01:44:34 PM
I have to agree that Ebay is pricing itself out of the market. I was paying Ebay $1500 a month in commissions a year ago - last month $38.00. I attempted to make a living at selling on Ebay for 4 years -- but the rate hike in January - told me -- it was time to move on... The corporate bean counters that I have learned to distrust -- had finally moved in to stay at Ebay.
I see the sell thru rate dropping and dropping. But the thing that gets me is Ebay still has been holding between 5 million to 5.5 million auctions - even as we enter the traditional slow period. But of course on a closer look at the aucitons - a lot are newbies - trying to sell things - way over priced that will close with no bids. Just last night I was scanning the used computers and found many great 386, 486 or Pentium 75 machines with opening WISH bids of $200 or $300. You know - the kind that if your are lucking will sell for $25.00.
At some point these newbies will also realize that they have lost several dollars listing it on Ebay -- just to give the DEAD inventory to the Trash man to haul away!
posted on June 27, 2001 04:16:23 PM
Very, very interesting thread. I salute all of you.
And I'm another from whom ebay has seen its last money. I'm not going to say I'll never BUY anything on ebay again, but I haven't even been browsing -- when the fun is gone, it's GONE, right?
I will be beta testing for gegy, and I'll list things there too. I'm not expecting all that much for starters, but I do think this new venue deserves my support -- just as I believe ebay NO LONGER deserves my support. Yup, just another greedy corporation like those some of us have "grown beyond" years ago already. They've sown the seeds of their demise.
In one thread, somewhere, gegy admitted (tho not in these words) it was pushing to get the site open to take advantage of all this seller antagonism and frustration. Go, gegy!
posted on June 27, 2001 04:53:11 PM
gegy gags me. I just went over there. The home page is terminally ugly. But I thought, let me see, so I went to register for the beta.
There on the form I was told to state my interests so gegy could find interesting things for me.
X'ed the screen and will never go back.
What makes these children they can do what Amazon and Yahoo, and countless others have been unable to do?
posted on June 27, 2001 05:09:13 PM
While I sympathize with with those of you trying to make a living using ebay. I think the point should be made that if you were to consign your goods to an Auction house you would pay the same fees,if not higher and not get the world wide coverage. This is after all an auction site not a storefront, as the saying goes, you pays your money and takes your chances.
posted on June 27, 2001 05:25:02 PMFK says This is after all an auction site not a storefront.
Yes and no.
eBay started out as an auction site, but quickly morphed into an auction / marketplace, something of a hybrid that really didn't exist anywhere else. Because sellers could reach collectors they couldn't before, clubdown prices were realized to a much greater degree -- for many types of items -- than could ever be realized at a regular auction. eBay served a different population of seller than the traditional auction houses (which often took consignments from decedents' estates, etc., with the sole purpose of just liquidating the darn stuff).
eBay quickly became a place where savvy individuals could buy for resale and actually make a decent profit doing so. We started hearing stories of welfare moms or disabled folks, or folks living in isolated areas who suddenly found a new avenue of supporting themselves. We heard the glory stories in the likes of "eBay magazine."
There are many top-notch Mom and Pop sellers on eBay who understand that increased competition is a byproduct of eBay's success, and try to adapt accordingly. We know that by investing in merchandise for resale, we are taking somewhat of a risk - but when eBay's quickly and hugely shifting policies throw monkey wrenches into the business plans of Mom & Pop sellers, it can pull the rug out from under us.
It does appear that eBay is once again becoming "just" an auction site since it is losing some of the better collectors and shoppers like our Victorian jewelry lover who posted earlier. The honeymoon is definitely over and I'm glad I left some options open (personally) so that I can prepare to go back to the corporate world. I feel sorry for those other sellers such as those who found financial independence for the first time on eBay. They must really be hurting now.
posted on June 27, 2001 05:45:07 PM
My listing with E-Bay has dropped way off.I'm listing alot everywhere else and doing very well.It should be interesting to see what happens a year from now when these other sites are really making a difference in everybodys sales.I wonder what E-Bays next magical trick will be then.
posted on June 27, 2001 06:04:11 PM
Hey, all, THANKS for letting on to the rest of us downtrodden Ebay sellers about gegy. (really). I have been seriously mulling over the idea of quitting eBlade (cuts your profits to smithereens). I am excited about the new site, have applied to beta test, and am fixing to go check my email and get on board.
All you posters across the boards don't know just how much you have helped me! I lurk and seldom post. I do appreciate the contributions of all, 'cept maybe the worst whiners (none in this thread). You have given me new avenues to pursue, and new hope each time eBay went even further psychotic. After all, why would anyone sane change a successful, profitable system that upsets those that help roll in the profits?
I have no problem with a corporation or other business being immensely profitable. Destroying successful actions that already work to pursue some new avenue (a little bit here, a little bit there) and constant tweaking (read that as messing with what aleady works and is not broken) are not actions that increase survival potential for a person or a business. eBay has done that exactly and continually, resulting in an apparent attempt to drive the small sellers out. eBay WAS fun. It's not much anymore, for buyers either. As they further destroy the "community" feel eBay had, I believe the buyers will flock less and less to what will eventually become a sterile wasteland, nothing more than a huge storefront for the big boys, and cheap imports. I just don't think the buyers will flock there when that change occurs, for the thrill of the hunt will be completely gone. You may agree, it's already sliding away.
It won't end overnight, and may take quite some time to wind down, depending on how many of us leave for other venues. But maybe Meg and company know that and are just wanting to squeeze all they can out of it (and us!) until and when and if it takes a dive. Their thinking is flawed if they consider they can institute all the changes thay have and still have the buyers continue to find eBay more thrilling that cruising conventional websites once many more small sellers leave.
I first bought from eBay to get a garage sale price buying from some individual. If I'd wanted new (even discounted) merchandise , I'd go to priceline and find the cheapest price from a e-tailer. Ebay has been about the thrill of the hunt, finding that individual auction with the item you've always wanted being sold by some person in GAWDknowsWHERE that was eager to sell at a great price! Right? Ebay is driving those very sellers away. Ebay's actions will continue to turn the site into even more of a ho-hum experience. It may be very gradual, but most of those of us who've been active there for several years have seen a marked decline.
When enough small sellers still listing on eBay finally realize that they just aren't making the profit they could and should and fall away, and enough newbie sellers overload the system with WISH (yeah, I like that term)opening bids and don't get any takers, and buyers have to wade through a wasteland of even thousands more of identical cheap discount items, info CD's, corporate sellers, etc, a greater number will migrate away. It may happen quickly after eBay reaches a critical mass. Perhaps not. One thing is sure. Once they are gone, and have decided eBay is boring, profitless, or (insert other negative here), Ebay will not be able to lure them back. Because it no longer will have any claim to "community". It will be a sterile machine.
Uh, can I get off my soapbox now?
Hope you don't find this a rant. Just thought I should wax eloquent one in a while.
Don't worry. Be happy. (Go Gegy)
(I hope the moderator doesn't take that as too much promo!)
TheWiseBuys
[ edited by meadowlark on Jun 27, 2001 06:05 PM ]
posted on June 27, 2001 06:14:28 PM
I am very discouraged with eBay. Four years ago I sold well, paid $2000/mo. in fees, and was happy. But since then eBay has changed in my mind. They've pulled one unfriendly tactic after another and the message is clear: "You are expendable." For me the bottom line is integrity. I am willing to do the work if I believe in the cause. I have no faith in eBay.
The category where I sell, software, has been completely taken over by bootlegs. Especially the featured category auctions, which scoop up most of the bidders. They are cheapo homemade CDs containing copyrighted software. eBay's policy says "no homemade CDs" but according to support, unless the ad specifically states "CD-R" they will do nothing. Fact is, eBay knows exactly what's going on and is doing nothing to stop it.
There's a reason for all the fraud complaints re: internet sales, and that reason is eBay. Can anyone believe that eBay is taking steps, when they profit from those illegal sales? Some kind of third-party oversight is necessary.
After four years of full-time sales, eBay is no longer enjoyable and I am pulling up stakes.
. Internet Pioneers
posted on June 27, 2001 07:34:05 PM
* * * There's kind of a Gresham's Law operating here: Bad money drives out good.
I trade in Chinese jades. A year or two ago I would list and sell several items a month. Now the market on eBay is 99.9% fakes. eBay of course could care less about the blatant fakes and lying descriptions. So I dropped back to just selling inexpensive pieces, to locate jade aficionados and then steer them to my Web site. Now eBay has forbidden _that_! Meantime all the unfriendly rules: can't contact people directly, can't link, etc., etc.
posted on June 27, 2001 08:07:22 PM
Yes I just read another thread that said something about Ebay raising the fees again Is that true? Does anyone know? Maybe that is the what the free listing day is all about the treat before they take more from us! AAAH! I just hope this is not true. Ebay has worked well for us over the last coupleyears but with all the fees it really is getting harder and harder to stay.
