posted on June 29, 2001 01:18:03 PM
I notice on other auction sites than ebay that sellers have high starting prices...probably because they don't get many bids..make sense to me...but I wonder if that is why buyers aren't going there.
I think buyers want to basically get something for nothing. And on ebay you can still sometimes start an auction at 1.00 and have it end high..but I don't think that can happen on other sites..
When ebay first started was there a lot of low opening bids? Maybe that is why ebay took off...could that be why the other sites aren't taking off or maybe won't take off?
posted on June 29, 2001 01:41:26 PM
When I first started selling on eBay in the spring of 1997, I rarely (if ever) started any of my auctions at more than $5 and I was confident I'd get an excellent price. You can bet I don't do that anymore
Even on eBay you're really taking a chance if you start your items at too low of a price - there are just so many listings, there's a good chance many buyers won't even see it.
On the other auction sites I've used, I've basically given stuff away because I started at a low price and only one person bid on it. I can't afford to do that with too many things!
posted on June 29, 2001 04:17:47 PM
eBay took off because it was 1st and still is number one. Right now the economy is in the dumps, people just are not spending. Lots of folks who made big bucks are being laid off, the remainder are nervous. The cost of selling went from free to everyone wanting a piece of the pie, which is driving up bid prices. All the sites have become over run with fast buck scumbags riping people off. Everytime a bidder is cheated, dozens of others are discourged from ever buying on an auction site. (Been zapped a couple times myself in the past few months.)
The smaller sites don't stand a chance unless they can come up with some serious money to do promos. And lastly, as soon as one of the little fish starts to get fat, one of the big fish is gonna eat'em.
posted on June 29, 2001 04:33:27 PM
jlady. I totally agree with your comments. The UK auction sites opening bids start with expected selling price. A UK Yahoo seller has some 1300 lots at retail prices and no bids on the first 200 lots I looked at. But I have lots on eBay starting at$0.10c.
This is not my trading name.
posted on June 29, 2001 04:40:00 PM
What alldings said is correct. I'll add something else.
All of the other sites look & feel basically like eBay. So... you have all the same features, all the same look -- the only difference is 30 million registered users on eBay vs "next to nothing" somewhere else. Even at 5% + listing on eBay, that amount is INSIGNFICANT compared to the final realization. You stand to lose MUCH more by selling elsewhere at 10% less final price, even if they're TOTALLY FREE.
I think other sites will have a CHANCE in 2-3 years. I believe it will take the next generation of technology to come along for it to happen though. THEN (and only then) can someone design a site with STABILITY, FEATURES, and SPEED that eBay lacks. eBay can't even tweak iPix without fouling things up for weeks. Does anyone really think they could rewrite the code on the whole site and not "crash and burn"???
For collectibles (maybe other areas too), "only a venue" won't cut it long term. I think the eventual winner will be individual specialized auction sites that have:
1) Fields RELEVANT to the specific area
2) Search capability on ALL of the relevant fields
3) EXPERTS on staff to weed out fakes/frauds and other problematic items
4) state-of-the art technology
Remember, we won't be programming in html forever. When the next new innovation comes along, my bet is that eBay won't be able to rewrite the code quickly enough. Many sellers are frustrated & just "waiting" for the right time to move. New technology might be the trigger.
posted on June 29, 2001 04:52:54 PM
Ebay took off because they were unique at the time they started. Just another auction site isn't gonna make it. They need to have a totally unique concept. I think a lot of buyers are just tired of the whole auction format anyway.
Look at Half. There was a unique idea that worked. Now someone needs to think up the next great thing that is different.
posted on June 29, 2001 04:56:46 PM
ebaypowersellergold.
I will not argue with your comments, but what I have just realised is that I have a Global Market. I have cut down on my listings to 3! as folks are on holiday. But have now realised that it is winter for folks below The Equator and will be targeting there.
This is not my trading name.
posted on June 29, 2001 05:18:17 PM
appearence is not everything. Each site has its pros and cons. One reason why ebay seems to be doing so well is because of the many listings. And many of these listings are closing with a sell. But one of the evils that is not taken into account is that on ebay there is widespread shill bidding whereas on the other free sites there is basically no reason to shill bid. People start prices out small and if they do not come up to their expected selling price they will bid on their own item so it will not sell at a cheaper price and will take a lose on the fees rather than lose on the items. On free sites a seller will set the price they want and it does not matter if it don"t sell, they will lose nothing, hoping eventually it will sell after many relist. Ebay has the appearance that sellers are really doing good but the truth is many are losing money while ebay is making money. shill bidding is in their favor. Whereas on free sites even if they sell only a few items at a time at least they made that much. the only people that would object to what I have said is the ones on ebay that do not shill bid and are doing great but I think they are a minority. Now how many people out there that shill bid on ebay and have taken loses will admit it??? Very few.
posted on June 29, 2001 05:55:27 PM
Speaking of "Global Markets", I don't think eBay is helping international trading at all, despite all their acquisitions...
For example, if you want to search for something "everywhere" on eBay, how many searches do you need to do? (hint, separate searches are required for US auctions, eBay stores, Half.com, eBay France, eBay Germany, iBazar, Korea, etc, etc).
What foolishness!
I think rather than having "stand-alone" international sites, they'd be FAR BETTER off integrating EVERYTHING and approaching things from the user interface. Want to only search eBay France? Fine -- just select that from the drop down menu on the search page. Want to have everything you see translated into German? Great, set your "My eBay" preference for that.
There are many things that eBay does "less than optimal". They have an "arrogance" in the way they conduct themselves. There WILL come a time when a new competitor can come along and take significant business IMHO. I don't think we've reached that point yet, and that's a major factor in why other auctions can't seem to break through.
QUICK SURVEY: Is there anyone out there that would say their feelings toward eBay have "improved" over the last 6 months? How do you think eBay will behave once it becomes obvious that they're not going to hit their revenue/profit projections? (Wall Street has a way of making otherwise "sane" people do outrageous things to generate more money...)
My guess is that 90% of the eBay users will answer those two questions in a negative fashion. That should be a VERY GOOD sign that another auction site has a GOOD CHANCE when the time is right.
posted on June 29, 2001 05:58:35 PM
No I mean shill bidding. Sniping is not a deception whereas shill bidding by the owner to make others think an item is selling well over his expected price. This is against ebays rules but is imforceable. Hardly anyone admits shill bidding whereas all will admit sniping that practices such. But when the shill bidders realize that people are becoming wise to their scheme and quit bidding on their items they quits listing because their bottom line is a lose but if they did not shill bid they would lose even much more. The apperance on ebay is that many sellers are doing well but not really. On free sites you can do well but it is slow and honest. This is one reason I came over to bidville. Although my sells are slow I do not have to fall into the common practice of shill bidding to make a profit.
posted on June 29, 2001 07:11:21 PM
Plain and simple....Too little too late.
The online auction market isn't the same as it was 4 years ago. Maybe back then, with the right marketing, another could take on eBay, but not anymore.
I am waiting for the government to go after them like they did Microsoft. eBay and Microsoft are a lot alike. They both got really big really fast, and they bought out their competitors one by one. Neither is really a true monopoly, but they sure seem like it.
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posted on June 29, 2001 08:23:28 PM
As ebaypowersellergold intimated there is the possibility that there will come advances in the technology that would allow a much better auction site with greater stability and as yet unthought of features.
When that happens often entrenched companies like eBay are not in a position financially or culturally to make the shift to the new
abandoning the old and they get left behind and die.
posted on June 30, 2001 09:37:12 AM
To paraphrase an American Icon "It's the Buyers, stupid"
eBay has them and no other site has been able to attract and/or retain them.
Maybe someday a big commercial site will do it. I hope so. Amazon, YAHOO and MSN looked like they had a chance, as they already had a large user base that could be introduced to their auction venue.
Some how, in spite of all they had going for them, each of those companies were able to avoid success.
In the meantime I'm pulling for the co-op approach. Small sites, run by their members, very inexpensive to operate, as much a labor of love as a profit center, advertised thru word of mouth, which can offer bargains, good buyer service, in a small friendly community and continue without having to reach critical mass required by commercial sites.
Add to that a member owned gateway/pathway that attracts buyers and links together all the co-ops in a federation of co-op sites and things get interesting.
General purpose co-ops and special interest co-ops, such as books, records, CD's, stamps, and any of the other 500 categories that you can think of.
You, a couple of friends or like minded sellers and a few hundred bucks. Presto, your own co-op, tied to hundreds of other similar sites and operating at cost for the benefit of sellers and their customers.
Ask the Penna. Dutch if it works. Never will be Wal-Mart and never wants to be.
Dosen't look like anybody is going to do it for us.
Maybe the times arrived when we are going to have to do it for ourselves.
posted on July 1, 2001 12:35:46 AM
Not a true monopoly?????
Ebay and Microsoft are greater monopolies than Standard Oil ever was. And it was SO that got the ball rolling on anti-monopoly legislation.
A monopoly does not mean NO competition, but rather policies that are deliberately set to impede or impair the competition, or restrictions on trade, such as the 'No Links Policy'.
Can anybody tell me why there STILL is no class action lawsuit against them???
posted on July 1, 2001 01:28:51 AM
Hi, Ray. I agree with what you say. This issue of "why the other sites fail" comes up in many forms. Every seller has their own idea of success, but many sellers apparently want a site that advertises as heavily as eBay, has as many bidders as eBay, has a great a sell-through rate, but without all the unfavorable policies. In other words, an eBay without teeth. In my opinion, that is not going to happen. Remember how we all thought Paypal was so great at first, and how Paypal turned as soon as they grabbed market share? Same thing happened at Yahoo. A lot of sellers invested time and profits in building up Yahoo, and for their efforts they got shown the door. That is the way big business works.
So again I ask, "what is your definition of success?" For sellers of inexpensive items, eBay is just not an option any more. Then there's the other side of the coin. To paraphrase a poster here, "I know I can sell on eBay ... why go anywhere else?" Those sellers can feel the pinch, grumble about it and go about their business. Next year they'll think differently, I'll wager. In the meantime, we can either complain about eBay or do something to create an alternative. Maybe that alternative WON'T have the same sell-through rate. If it did, it would be eBay by any other name.
I agree that specialty niche sites or specialty co-ops have a lot of promise, but we must make sure we're not heading off in different directions. It's important that we share customers in a kind of co-op federation, all under the same unbrella, so that customers can click through from Antiques to Kitchenwares quickly and easily. Otherwise we are diluting our strength.
. Internet Pioneers
posted on July 1, 2001 07:56:05 AM
When ebay started, there were several other sites at the same time. The difference, ebay was not selling anything, just a platform for people to sell. On the other hand, other sites were companies trying to sell products on their site. There are millions of potential sellers, but not many products for other companies to sell.
Another thing, in the early days, there were thousands of sellers selling counterfeit software. eBay received huge fees and the sellers made bundles of money. With that money, they put more and more items for sale.
With that being stopped, new sites will never take off without bundles of money and I doubt if any will ever attempt such a venture. As they say, the Honeymoon is over.
It will be very hard to compete with ebay, as ebay itself, sooner or later is going to slow down for the unreasonable expectations of buyers and lack of profits for sellers.
There is still some money to be made on ebay, but I doubt it's going to be much in general terms.
Most of what keeping ebay is the new batch of sellers trying their luck, once every one tried their luck without getting anywhere, then things will slow dramatically.
A lot of scams, surplus items, refurbished items, unbranded items, etc...
My feelings are in a few years ebay market will retract for lack of profits and most serious sellers should poise for that and prepare themselves for different selling channels.
posted on July 1, 2001 10:55:03 AM
Hi, trueuser. I agree that the honeymoon is over. eBay knows it; that's why they are moving away from person-to-person auctions. I mean, if you've got a record store and 100,000,000 records in stock, how many can you reasonably expect to sell in a day? New sellers are joining, but much of it is simple inertia. eBay has a reputation for making easy money. At one time that was the case. But now a new seller with any sense will look at the sell-through rate on eBay and realize that profits simply aren't there. So I think we will definitely see a slowing trend in P2P auctions.
Unfortunately, that leaves many sellers, especially sellers of inexpensive items, with a bad case of eBay withdrawl symptoms. Those sellers need another venue. Those sellers will have to realize that with a million other sellers in the same bed, they can either accept lower sales or go back to eBay and make practically nothing. I believe that in time another site(s) will emerge. But much of it comes down to sellers gambling that Gegy or whoever will NOT turn into another eBay, Paypal, Yahoo, etc. It's naive to think that Gegy is simply giving sellers a gift of a million bucks in advertising. Gegy wouldn't be investing in that kind of money unless they thought they could make a tidy profit. (And guess where that profit will come from?) In my opinion, a new site needs a proven track record in order to build seller loyalty. Yahoo almost made it, but they blew it.
. Internet Pioneers
