gravid
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posted on June 29, 2001 08:13:35 PM
I got the following dire warning from PayPal:
Dear PayPal Member,
Customers have brought to our attention that there is an apparent
"bug" in the eBay (TM) re-listing process. The re-listing process
automatically inserts Billpoint (TM) logos into the auctions of all
sellers who have ever opened a Billpoint account. This occurs
regardless of whether sellers have any desire to accept Billpoint
payments.
Unfortunately, the occurrence of this bug is not without negative
consequences for many PayPal members who sell on eBay. In addition
to being forced to waste time reviewing their listings, members
also run the risk of:
* BUYER CHARGEBACKS: The unintended appearance of Billpoint in your
* auctions may cause you to receive unsolicited Billpoint payments
* that are not protected against chargebacks. (eBay implies to
* buyers that Billpoint is your preferred method of payment in its
* end of auction notices.) PayPal sellers are protected from
* chargebacks under our Seller Protection Policy; for full details,
* please visit our website:
* http://www.paypal.com/cgi-bin/webscr?cmd=p/gen/protections-outside
* HIGHER FEES: Credit card payments over $15 cost more to receive
* through Billpoint than PayPal; Billpoint standard account users
* pay 3.0% + $0.35 per transaction, and Billpoint merchant account
* users pay 2.25% + $0.35.
* LOSS OF CASHBACK: This "bug" has caused thousands of PayPal
* Preferred users to risk being disqualified from receiving 1.5%
* cashback on their Debit Card purchases. (Sellers who agree to
* only advertise PayPal in their listings receive 1.5% cashback
* whenever they use their PayPal ATM/Debit Card to buy something.)
* Given the nature of this problem, however, PayPal will NOT
* disqualify any Preferred members from receiving cashback for the
* next week.
* NEGATIVE FEEDBACK: If high bidders send their sellers unsolicited
* Billpoint payments, sellers can run a greater risk of receiving
* negative feedback due to the ensuing confusion.
PayPal **strongly recommends** that all members who sell on eBay
immediately review their live auctions for undesired Billpoint
logos. Per eBay's rules, sellers may remove content from their
live auctions unless it has received a bid. Some sellers who have
contacted us report that closing their dormant Billpoint account
causes the undesired logos to be removed from all live auctions,
including those with bids, although we cannot confirm that this is
the case.
If you have questions on how to modify your auctions, we recommend
that you contact eBay's customer support at (408) 558-7400 (and
select "2" from the automated menu). You may also submit online
inquiries at http://pages.ebay.com/help/basics/select-support.html.
We hope that this "bug" does not interfere with your auctions.
Thank you for using PayPal to buy and sell online. With over 8.5
million members, PayPal is the world's #1 online payment service.
Sincerely,
The PayPal Auction Team
My reply:
Thank you for your concern. I am a big boy, indeed I am an old ugly nasty big person
and can regulate my relationship with Billpoint and eBay without your advice. When
they start advising me about YOU they shall get the same reply. If you would limit
yourselves to telling me about changes to the PayPal system that will suffice. I don't
need a gossipy newsletter to lay bare your rivalries with them thank you -
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wbbell
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posted on June 29, 2001 08:22:03 PM
This message makes me laugh even harder than the last one (the infamous "My daughter may not have a place to lay her head since Billpoint took the rent money").
It makes me think of an old timey movie poster: "The Love - The Pain - The Horror of ... The BillPoint Bugs!!"
Did they hire some ex-romance-novelist into their marketing department to write this nonsense!
And after I just posted elsewhere defending paypal!!
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dellastreet
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posted on June 29, 2001 08:29:32 PM
I think their figures are wrong too. I have a Billpoint merchant account, and I pay $0.35 + 1.75% on sales over $15.00. Where do they get the 2.25%?
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revvassago
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posted on June 29, 2001 08:31:04 PM
It surprises me that paypay spends so much time going after billpoint when they should focus their attention on the up and comers like c2it and paydirect.
A lot of the stuff they are saying in their advertisements is borderline slander, such as the comment about a child not having a place to lay her head.
But you know, whenever I have a problem with billpoint, I go straight to paypal to solve it. Just like the people who "brought this to paypal's attention"
Edited to add: They should really update their emails now that billpoint is charging 2.5% rather than 3% - oh wait, that would be cheaper than paypal - they don't want to do that! Better to lie than to lose users.
----------------------------------------------
[ edited by revvassago on Jun 29, 2001 08:42 PM ]
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wbbell
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posted on June 29, 2001 08:35:49 PM
Dellastreet: Billpoint also charges you a 0.5% fee for their non-optional instant transfer service when the amount is $15 or more.
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airguy
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posted on June 29, 2001 10:49:50 PM
bump
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loggia
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posted on June 30, 2001 12:04:46 AM
Anyone notice PayPal sounding a little desperate lately in regards to BillPoint?
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uaru
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posted on June 30, 2001 12:48:22 AM
they should focus their attention on the up and comers like c2it and paydirect.
There isn't much comparison with the numbers. Maybe on the message board but not out in the auctions and storefronts.
According to this Information Week article earlier this month the number difference is dramatic, PayPal's signing up more new customers in 2 days than C2it has signed up in over 8 months.
PayPal adds 50,000 users--the equivalent of the entire customer base of Citibank's c2it online payment system--every two days, analysts say.
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airguy
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posted on June 30, 2001 01:49:51 AM
But the numbers don't reflect that probably at least half of those, if not more, that are signing up for the other services are people that are not happy with the PayPal. I for one stopped using them, until recently, back in December and the plan after their billpoint/ebay email I got tonight it to sign up for billpoint and drop PayPal.
the numbers don't really mean much, ebay claims 22,000,000 customers, how may accounts do you have, between me and my wife we have several some are for dot coms I have that I have never used. some accounts on ebay are just abandoned, what about PayPal? are they the same?
here is one of the problems with 22,000,000 users on ebay there are only about 200,000 to 250,000 big sellers, "core sellers" as they are called. So they are probably also the "Core" of PayPals business, so even with all their members there is a small number of people that are using them to clear transactions when compared to their user base. You piss off say even a few thousand your going to have to raise rates. like I said I was gone in December until two weeks ago I'll be gone again by the 14th.
what is the number of people that have done more than 5 or 10 transactions with PayPal? what is the number of sellers that have PayPal but don't advertise the fact? how many accounts sit unused at PayPal?
As far as I am concerned if I had a business partner that had been doing what PayPal has done this last month I would have sent him packing, this is no different, by the 14 PayPal will have it's walking papers.
Also if offering PayPal is all about offering convenience to our customers, what about PayPal offering something to their customers, you know the sellers, the forgotten masses when it comes to convenience.
Any service that wants to tell me how to run my business can stick it sideways for all I care, don't send me emails telling me to remove jack from my auctions especially when I don't use the stupid card you sent that I never activated. The whole email was nothing more than a threat to the people that activated their cards to give them a deadline to have the billpoint removed. I'll put whatever payment service I care to in my auctions and PayPal wont be one of them and PayPal can keep their spam to themselves.
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airguy
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posted on June 30, 2001 01:50:07 AM
[ edited by airguy on Jun 30, 2001 01:50 AM ]
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Microbes
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posted on June 30, 2001 04:51:52 AM
[b] The unintended appearance of Billpoint in your
* auctions may cause you to receive unsolicited Billpoint payments [/b]
I'm glad paypal is finally getting around to admiting that unsolicited payments are a bad thing. Does this mean I've gotten MY LAST unsolicited "You've got cash" email from paypal?
Who Need's a stink'n Sig. File?
[ edited by Microbes on Jun 30, 2001 04:52 AM ]
[ edited by Microbes on Jun 30, 2001 04:54 AM ]
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naru
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posted on June 30, 2001 05:15:33 AM
What Nerve:
"NEGATIVE FEEDBACK: If high bidders send their sellers unsolicited * Billpoint payments, sellers can run a greater risk of receiving
* negative feedback due to the ensuing confusion."
Paypal has been accepting payments on my behalf and I have never taken Paypal.
"ensuing confusion" is exactly what happens when someone send me payment by Paypal when I have never had ANYTHING to do with them.
What a bunch of raging hypocrites.
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ghallgren
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posted on June 30, 2001 06:53:00 AM
OK let's get serious. If PayPal is such a pain in the ****** then let's quit griping and make a pact to quit them on the 13th. Actions speak louder than words! Please sign up here:
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sharkbaby
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posted on June 30, 2001 07:52:32 AM
That communication was pretty bodacious on the part of PayPal! Sounds like they're grasping at straws now...
Anyway, what a load of bunk! Plus, Billpoint has NEVER put any unsolicited logos on my auctions. PayPal just priced themselves out of the market as far as I'm concerned.
I'm with ya on leaving them. I'll be gone before the 2.9% thing hits!
______________________________
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kyms
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posted on June 30, 2001 07:59:07 AM
I'd dump BP before dumping Paypal. The only chargeback I had came from Billpoint. They hold my money for days, and if a payment is made via BP on a Thursday, I have to wait until Monday to get my cash. Sometimes I need the money to do shipping..Paypal makes it easy for me. I love my Debit Card! If BP would give me acess to my own money, I'd love them too. But they don't.
Plus, BP has put the logo on my auctions. I id not ask for it, and do not want it.
[ edited by kyms on Jun 30, 2001 08:01 AM ]
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crankyoldhag
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posted on June 30, 2001 08:35:55 AM
Well, aparantly, I qualify for paypal's merchant rate even with my measley couple of hundred dollars a month in transactions. That must say a bit about their desparation... I have been a member for a long time.
I'm not accepting payments under $15.00 starting today... however, I will have to chat with the other half of the business before I dump them on their butt.
I haven't had mention of them in my auctions or EOA for a long time now and things just keep moving along, so dumping them is truely not a hardship here.
I guess it all depends on your expreriences, I have never had a problem with billpoint and the auctomatic sweep is included in the 2.25% I pay. I have had minor problems with paypal and have had nothing but problems getting anything resolved. I dread ever having a major problem there.
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fountainhouse
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posted on June 30, 2001 08:36:23 AM
If BP would give me acess to my own money, I'd love them too.
Just try getting access to your money at PP when they freeze your entire account for the sake of a $1.99 chargeback.
Oh yeah, and that "seller fraud protection"? It consists of freezing your account and ignoring every attempt at contact for the next 6 weeks.
Nancy
[email protected]
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mballai
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posted on June 30, 2001 11:00:57 AM
I think PayPal is getting more and more desperate. They know there is competition out there and they know many more newbies have signed up for Billpoint.
You don't see Billpoint crying wolf at PayPal do you? In another two years PayPal will be another dot bomb because they continually antagonize their sellers.
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katiyana
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posted on June 30, 2001 11:26:08 AM
I have had the logos inserted into my auctions without asking for them (I've revised an awful lot of auctions to remove them).
While I do accept Billpoint, and will be pushing them over Paypal for under $15 payments as well as electronic checks, the 1.5% cashback and chargeback protections make it worth keeping and being Paypal Preferred - at least for my size of business... for now... I also qualify for the merchant level (meaning I won't have another fee increase in two weeks), but the way my profit margins are set up - I won't be able to take too much more.
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julesy
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posted on June 30, 2001 11:58:51 AM
I am surprised that the PTB at Paypal can't see how pathetically desperate sounding that email is. Not only desperate, but condescending as well.
edited for tenses.
[ edited by julesy on Jun 30, 2001 11:59 AM ]
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nefish
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posted on June 30, 2001 12:27:34 PM
ITA with Julesy - that e-mail is a load of crap and I am actually surprised that it was sent for public viewing. How embarassing for them!
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northwoodsguy
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posted on June 30, 2001 02:13:40 PM
I've been using PayPal since April 2000.
I signed up with Billpoint about a week ago.
Several days after I signed up with Billpoint, I received a telephone call from some guy with PayPal who tried to talk me into dumping Billpoint! He somehow found my auctions on eBay and noticed the Billpoint logo. He kept telling me, "if you only offer PayPal you can get 1.5% cash back," etc. etc. He also said that there is no protection with Billpoint against chargebacks. I'm going to continue offering buyers a choice.....PayPal, Billpoint, money order, or check. I think it's weird that PayPal noticed that I had started to accept Billpoint; I feel like "Big Brother" is watching me!
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bitofagrump
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posted on June 30, 2001 03:03:44 PM
Perhaps they should change their name to PatheticPal, since that is how this email certainly strikes me.
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Microbes
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posted on June 30, 2001 03:13:19 PM
[i]Paypal has been accepting payments on my behalf and I have never taken Paypal.
"ensuing confusion" is exactly what happens when someone send me payment by Paypal when I have never had ANYTHING to do with them. What a bunch of raging hypocrites. [/i]
"ensuing confusion" my a$$, it throws a monkey wrench into my deals everytime this happens.
Who Need's a stink'n Sig. File?
[ edited by Microbes on Jun 30, 2001 03:15 PM ]
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crankyoldhag
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posted on June 30, 2001 03:16:28 PM
Well, now I know why I keep my paypal email address a different one than my ebay email address. They can't take my email and look for logos in my auctions and bug me with telemarketing calls about things that are none of their business. 
Their debit card does nothing for me as I do not keep money in my paypal account, nor will I ever keep money in my paypal account. I do believe they have finally crossed the line, at least for me. Billpoint transfers my money faster anyway.
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GreetingsfromUK
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posted on June 30, 2001 03:49:06 PM
I had the Billpoint em from Paypal. As long as my US customers are happy to buy my lots and pay by Paypal, your lot will catch first Air Mail from UK.
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naru
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posted on June 30, 2001 04:14:14 PM
Aren't these offers from Paypal to give sellers what amounts to a kickback for getting rid of a competing service illegal in the US?
Here in Canada a brewery got in major trouble over an offer of free product to any bar owner who would get rid of all other brands for special events. They were fined and not allowed to advertize for a year.
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onemachtwo
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posted on June 30, 2001 09:11:25 PM
I got the marketing call also - no thanks - it seems that they are trying too hard. Very odd.
not onemachtwo on eBay
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musicman1212
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posted on June 30, 2001 09:59:44 PM
Paypal's email was too stupid for words! They are getting flakier by the day. On a separate note, I have never felt right about the whole "Paypal Preferred" thing. Sure sounds like a kick-back to me! <br>We are getting ready to dump Paypal but we aren't quite sure who to go with just yet. We can't/won't do the 2.9% thing and Paypal has already replied and told us that they won't give us the merchant account even after we've been with them since the very beginning! Thanks again Paypal!
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loggia
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posted on July 2, 2001 04:08:36 AM
PayPal adds 50,000 users--the equivalent of the entire customer base of Citibank's c2it online payment system--every two days, analysts say.
Nooo, don't think so. That's an increase of 4 million users every 4 months.
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