posted on July 3, 2001 07:33:52 AM
I am a seller and have only given a negative feedback(4 times) to buyers who have not sent payment. Each time they have reciprocated back with a negative to me. All have been unjustified. Deadbeats that claim they sent payment etc.
I have come to the conclusion that it it just not worth it to leave a negative even for thr right reasons. Am I alone in this way of thinking?
posted on July 3, 2001 07:38:42 AM
Yes, you are wrong in your thinking.
A smart buyer can see right through a retalitory neg.
You have the opportunity to respond to their neg...use it.
Besides, I become suspect of a high feedback seller with no "negs".
There is no way you can sail though a 1000+ transactions and not run into a problem buyer.
posted on July 3, 2001 07:54:39 AM
You're not alone. I don't leave negs for non-payers, though I used to. And I never received any back. I do the NPBA, then FVF credit.
IMO, negs do nothing except open you up for retaliatories. I realize that you could get a neg anyway just for filing a FVF credit, but so far it hasn't happened to me.
FVF credits, however are productive. You get back your FVF, and after three against one bidder, they get suspended.
It's already a two step process to get back your FVF's, three if you take the time to block that bidder from future auctions. And then you have to list the item again. I'm not going to waste even more time negging deadbeats. They're just not worth it.
And no, I don't check my bidders feedback usually. And I've never cancelled a bid because of feedback. The system is too flawed.
My response may get lots of flak about doing my part to help other sellers. But it's the way I do it. I don't much care about a buyer's history. I do check sellers before I buy. And I always leave positive for good buyers and good sellers - that is worth my time.
posted on July 3, 2001 08:17:13 AM
Fear and apathy will allow deadbeats to get away with even more than they already do! Since we can't use their id's on discussion boards, or post them in our ME page they are already partly protected... negs are the ONLY thing that will help (as well as NPBs) - Use the system. Smart users can read through retaliatory negs - NO PROBLEM!
posted on July 3, 2001 09:09:26 AM
The feedback system is an uneven playing field. A seller has one reason to leave a negative NON PAYMENT. But the bidder can come up with countless reasons. A new bidder who is 14 years old can ruin a honest dealers reputation. And even if the seller leaves a honest negative for non payment the dishonest bidder can make up just about anything and retaliate.
The most disturbing thing is this. Dealers on ebay are selling and trying to build a good reputation in order to sell more. On a whim a bidder can sign up ,place a bid ,leave a neg and never bid again on anything. They can come back with another name with no concern of building trust.
As far as being suspect of a dealer with no negatives....I don't have one and I do everything I can to please my buyers. I will probably get a neg shortly from an overseas bidder who did not want to pay customs and is asking me to be a felon and resend the item without value. I refused. So he will more than likely neg me. I guess after this I will look more honest.
posted on July 3, 2001 09:24:14 AM
The feedback system is ALREADY useless. Here's the sequence:
1. Bidder deadbeats
2. Seller negs
3. Bidder leaves retalitory neg
4. Bidder registers again and gets a sparkling new eBay id
The result is that the seller is left with this neg forever and the one left for the deadbeat is never seen again by anyone. Now explain to me again why I should neg deadbeats.
posted on July 3, 2001 09:48:47 AM
Hey, I'm all for contributing to the common good but given the all too familiar scenario I outlined previously, how is that "good" served?
posted on July 3, 2001 09:49:10 AM
If you don't leave Negative feedback to deadbeat bidders you are part of the problem. I expect sellers to have negative feedbacks. If I was going to bid on something and not pay it would be from the seller with 0 negatives. I would know he won't leave me one.
posted on July 3, 2001 10:01:48 AM
To all the sellers who play the no-win game of negging deadbeats, I thank you for going with your principles and doing what you feel is right.
As for myself, I have NEVER left a neg for a deadbeat and I NEVER will under the current feedback system. I refuse to knowingly take any action that has little to no potential benefit and high risk. The bottom line won't allow it.
eyeguy6 said all that needs to be said on the matter.
posted on July 3, 2001 10:03:56 AM
This is very upsetting to hear. I have 678 positive feedbacks all honest and earned. I have left one 2 negatives and the bidders were suspended before they could neg me (pure luck and timing). And you are saying you would not bid on my auctions because I have a clean record??? This makes the feedback system ridiculous at both ends. I am now being convinced feedback is useless. I am stunned. This is a damned if ya do damned if ya don't situation!
posted on July 3, 2001 10:10:26 AM
In the same vein eyeguy, I don't think there are that many bidders who get one neg, leave ebay and start again under a new id. Its not worth the hassle if they bid for a lark and changed their mind, or expected to get outbid, but didn't. They are not scam artists, just deadbeats... The scam artists will do that, but they usually get a few positives first before they start pulling their schemes.
I find that those that retaliate are rarely on ebay just to create trouble. They are buyers with personality flaws who are incapable of taking responsibility for their actions, or lack thereof. They messed up and want to blame anyone else they can... or they have buyer's remorse and hope that because the item is only a few dollars (overwhelmingly in my case deadbeats are usually for items that sold for $3.00 - $15.00) that I will ignore leaving them a neg. I find the buyers that usually retaliate often already have quite a bit of positive feedback (10+ usually). They are pissed because they screwed up and I, or someone else left neg feedback which mars their reputation and they are lashing out without thinking. If ebay would black retaliatory feedback on items where NPB's are outstanding, then that would solve some of the problems, but ebay rarely finds real solutions to small problems like retaliatory feedback...
posted on July 3, 2001 10:17:08 AM
I think that there was an "Ebay Community", but since EBAY abandoned the concept, there is no such a thing anymore.
Those that leave negative feedback do so at their own risk, and with very little benefit to themselves. There are as many naive bidders as there are intuitive ones, and I don't think a seller unjustly slandered (or is it libelled?) is as discernable as one who earned it, unless the bidder gives a better clue of duplicity by being vulgar. Or inane.
I do leave feedback, but I expect retaliation, and I leave negative feedback for my own satisfaction, not because I believe it has any other higher purpose.
If you choose not to leave negative feedback, or only when others have already started the ball rolling to get the bidder NARU, well, we all have to make our own choices and live with them. I really don't see a right or wrong here. Just choices.
Right and wrong imply some sort of value system, fairness, or at least a modicum of protection against obvious flim-flam, these concepts do not exist on EBAY.
You should always file the FVF credit however; money is money.
posted on July 3, 2001 10:21:52 AM
I do always file my FVC's because as you said "money is money". Heck, I'd even leave the negs and accept the retalitory ones if the the bidder was stuck with them and couldn't just re-register with a clean slate.
posted on July 3, 2001 10:59:50 AM
I haven't run into any of the reincarnated deadbeats that seem to get far more credit in these posts than in the real world. eBay already has the technical means to put these folks permanently out of business and it's probably just a matter of time before they do.
People who don't leave negative feedback for fear of retaliation do not get my sympathy or support. Collecting credit and leaving negatives for deadbeats and bad sellers is just part of doing business on eBay. Feedback isn't meant to be a popularity contest--it's a sign of your willingness to do the right thing.
We are turning into a nation of wimps when we worry too much about what someone will think or do if we tell the truth. And that's scarier than any neg.
posted on July 3, 2001 11:12:52 AM
mballai
You hit the nail on the head. Imagine how many deadbeat bidders we would have on eBay if we were all to scared to leave anything but a positive feedback.
The feedback system is not perfect , but it is all we have. Use it like it was meant to be used for telling others the truth about members.
I always leave negs when they are deserved, last time I checked it was something like 150 out of about 3,000 transactions, and I have only ever received 10 negs in return, current feedback is 2,570.
I don't like leaving them, it's a last resort & I try to be as patient as possible with people, but sometimes of course they simply will not pay.
I've left 3 in past 2 weeks: one for someone who would only pay if I signed up for PayPal even though I strongly state I don't accept PayPal; another from someone who just never sent payment, only promises; and one this morning for an auction that ended on June 1st -- a book that sold for $5.99, bidder has zero feedback, from Brazil, and when I said shipping total would come to $12.00, they e-mailed back & said they would not pay, it was too much -- amazing for something that was going to ship from Canada to Brazil!! Anyway, they are now minus one feedback, and that is my fastest negative ever, but on this one I figured, why even bother worrying about it, just post the neg to warn other sellers, who needs someone in Brazil with a dopey attitude?
Deadbeats don't deserve mercy treatment, unless there is some absolutely compelling reason.
posted on July 3, 2001 12:15:30 PM
I don't leave negs for the same reasons as mentioned earlier: It hurts me a lot more than the deadbeat. He switches user Id's, and no one even knows he's a deadbeat. I'm left with a bunch of retaliatory negs, and bidders think I'm a lousy seller. Please don't say that a bidder is smart enough to see it's retaliatory. I have over 200 pages of feedback comments. Do you think the bidder is going to scroll through those 200 pages to see what the negatives are about? No, they just see the blaring red negative number on the main feedback total. Sorry, but it's not worth it. I'll stick to filing for FV credit. It's a lot more effective.
posted on July 3, 2001 01:01:01 PM
Please don't be wimpy. If they don't pay, leave a negative. I recently deleted a bid from a negative feedback bidder. I'm sure I would have been stuck with a NPB if not for the previous sellers who had the guts to leave appropriate feedback.
posted on July 3, 2001 01:06:08 PM
I saw this on a post, was impressed & made a copy. Here are some very good thoughts on why not to leave negative feedback.
"Why should you care about my business. I don't care about yours, and I can assure you that nobody else does either. In case you didn't know, those other sellers in your category would just as soon see you quit so they could have more business. That is the reality of the Ebay "community", and also the way things work in the real world."
"Nearly every major retailer monitors every move of their competitors. They visit there stores to check prices. They attempt to buy them out and if that doesn't work, they open a store next to them and try to run them out of business. Do you think they call each other to exchange info about customers that bounce checks or try to shoplift or buy stuff and return it after they wore it to that special event. Probably not."
posted on July 3, 2001 03:20:07 PM
The posters referring to refusal to neg deadbeats as "wimpy" are missing the point. ebaY isn't about being wimpy or macho or whatever. It's about making money. As much as possible within ebaY rules, our individual ethical standards, and the law. Period.
If an action has the potential to add to my bottom line with relatively low risk (and if it allows me to sleep at night), I take it.
If an action has the potential to adversely affect my bottom line with little potential benefit to me, I pass on it.
It's really that simple. It all boils down to sound business decisions, not popularity contests and a "take THAT you jerk!" mentality.
Again, I applaud the sellers who stand by their principles and are willing to "take one on the chin" for the good of the the "community". But since in reality there IS no community, I'll pass on negging deadbeats.
posted on July 3, 2001 05:01:18 PM
It's not worth it (in my opinion) to neg a buyer if you are a seller for non-payment. I just send the reminder through ebay, and get a refund on the auction. It only takes 3 to get suspended, I think that is more important that the feedback. It's too easy to retaliate, and too easy to change to a new user id. I see no strong reason to do so.
I have two ebay ID's - My seller ID (with over 1240 positive and zero negatives) and my buyer ID (60 positives, zero negatives) - I would have no problem sending a negative to a seller from my buying account if warranted (It has not been so far) because if I get a retalitory negative on my buying account, I really could care less!
posted on July 3, 2001 05:41:32 PM
Oh my GOD......Here we go...
Eyeguy6 has hit it in the center his name should be Bullseyeguy6...
My AW brother packer says “A smart buyer can see right through a retaliatory neg. ”
So what about the not so Smart, Naive or Newbie..BUYER
Case in point... yesterday morning we had an email from a potential bidder enquiring
about our five negatives in the last six months. The auction she had enquired about had ended prior to me reading her email . I looked up the auction she wanted to bid on only to see it ended without a bid. She was a Newbie with 0 feedbacks..... So did I lose a sale because
of my negative feedbacks, which includes a negative from a woman who bought
some diet pills from me and said they didn’t work??? We will never leave a negative
feedback under the current wacked out eBay system.. I do not foresee eBay changing this in the near future.The NPB is Big, Big business for eBay, I’m talking millions of dollars per year.. For the eBay seller who says negative feedbacks is like wearing a “Badge of Honor”.. I feel its like wearing a Dunce Cap that eBay has forced on my head.A negative feedback has much more of an impact on the seller than it does on the
bidder, because the bidder has the option to make a personal decision of the seller
prior to bidding and the seller does not know who the bidder is until they have placed
their bid...The whole thing is messed up bad...we only use the feedback system as a way to
keep track of ended auctions...and it should never be used for by people who buy diet pills and forget read the instructions the states to lose weight with this product.. “You must
first remove the Fricking fork from your mouth”..
posted on July 3, 2001 06:35:50 PM
I'm sold. My days of leaving negative feedback for non-paying bidders is over. Sellers have everything to lose and non-paying bidders couldn't care less anyway. Why play the eBay game?
posted on July 3, 2001 06:46:27 PM
Actually, retailers can help each other without hurting themselves. In my small town, I know the merchants know among themselves who bounces checks, etc. That doesn't mean they have to be public about it.
There is one gas station here who recently posted a bounced check above his register. I thought this was very cruel of him since the writer of the check is known in town - heck we're all known in this town! I won't buy gas from this merchant anymore.
Seek your fees back, redeposit bounced checks when the funds are there, and I would post bad feedback if someone wrote me a check from a non-existent account because I do feel a good warning about something like that is worth my time.
Also, if a seller emailed a question to me about a buyer who hadn't paid them, of course I'd take the time to answer that seller honestly.
The thing is that I've had deadbeats with prior good feedback, and I've had people pay who had a few negs for nonpayment. My "relationship" is with one buyer at a time.
posted on July 4, 2001 08:44:05 AM
To mipakaco:
"Do you think the bidder is going to scroll through those 200 pages to see what the negatives are about? No, they just see the blaring red negative number on the main feedback total."
I will. If it is all positive (or nearly so), I just read the first page of comments looking for shipping/packaging comments and if the seller has responded in a negative way. If there are any negs or neutrals, I will read a sampling of the positive comments and all the neutrals and negs. I will also look at the other persons feedback if anything looks odd based on sellers return comments or the other buyers feedback. If the seller replies to the neg with nasty comments, I won't bid. If the seller said that the buyer was a NPB, I will believe the seller.
To all sellers:
The response the seller (or buyer, it is hard to tell sometimes) gave to the neg or neutral will affect my bidding more than the numbers. So, if you leave not so positive comments, do so in a calm, factual manner and I will believe you. If someone leaves you a neg or neutral, leave a calm, factual response and I will believe you.
One seller who's feedback I read had made nasty comments about positive feedback (with a slow ship statement) and I decided I didn't want to do business with that seller whether they were right or wrong.
Pepper
