posted on July 6, 2001 02:48:12 PM new
The eBay feedback system sucks and needs to
either be fixed or done away with. I am a
serious seller that has over 400 positive
feedbacks. I diligently try to "do what is
right" in my eBay business. I also expect
that bidders should pay if they win the bid.
I have made it a policy to post negative feedback on every bidder that does not pay.
Right now I have EIGHT (8) negative feedbacks on my site. Everyone of these are revenge posts made by bidders that never paid, never saw the mdse and in most cases never even responded to emails. It makes me furious
to have those totally undeserved and unwarranted Negative feedbacks from losers
that never honored their bid. EBAY ALLOWS THIS TO CONTINUE !!
These deadbeats are allowed to post negative
feedbacks just because they listed a bid...
the serious and diligent eBay seller gets
blasted by some no-count loser that never
honored their bid.
The system needs to be changed, if you don't
pay, you don't get to post feedback. eBay is
totally out of balance in trying to do anything to increase the number of bidders,
legitimate or not, at the expense of allowing
their sellers get falsely blasted.
The feedback can be profane, defammatory,
total pack of lies and NOTHING can be done
because some low life posted a bid.
posted on July 6, 2001 03:23:16 PM new
Question:
Who will be the arbiter as to whether a buyer paid? The seller?
IME, in any marketplace, the party who holds themselves or their product out for sale is the most vulnerable...
I spend countless hours quoting jobs I may never get and satisfying customer's expectations of the work I perform....it's part of the territory of being in business.
I subscribe to a simple feedback philosophy on eBay: simple, honest, timely feedback for buyers and sellers alike...it hasn't failed me yet. I have filed on NPB's and have neg'd every one of them and personally would rather get a few in return than be a doormat for a bully buyer.
As a buyer, nothing irritates me more than a seller informing me that they'll leave feedback after I have....of course, this is after auction close, but they'll never have the pleasure of one of my bids again, bargain or no.....
Also as a buyer, when I run a sellers FB on Vrane, I check both the FB received and left and can easily compare the negs on both sides and forumulate a hypothesis as to where the retaliation may have been. Additionally, I look closely as to how a seller leaves negatives or responds to them...is it calm and factual or emotional and name calling? I won't buy from a seller who yells at customers, even with justification....
Cumbersome and flawed as eBay's feedback system is, I think, philisophically, that it should remain the same. Only improvement I'd like is the ability to pull up neutrals/negs quickly without resorting to outside services...
posted on July 6, 2001 04:08:20 PM new
I'm with you on this one, Pender. I, too, am the recipient of 8 negs - 7 from an NPB who stiffed me out of over $750 in auctions because he found similiar items for less. I still seethe because this jerk (who kept saying he'd pay while at the same time, he was bidding on the other items!) sullied my otherwise good feedback record. I STILL don't think it's fair!
posted on July 6, 2001 05:04:13 PM new
Who would be the arbiter as to whether the buyer paid? Safeharbor.
Upon the seller filing for FVF, the buyer should be given a pending administrative neg. The seller and buyer would both be prevented from leaving feedback at all. Buyer would then have a reasonable period of time to prove that payment was made. This should be easy to do with a PayPal, Billpoint, or money order receipt, or even a canceled check. If the buyer can prove he paid, the administrative neg would be converted into an adminstrative positive and the seller would receive an administrative neg for falsely filing for FVF. If the buyer can't prove he paid within a reasonable period of time, the pending neg would be converted into an actual neg.
Perfect? Of course not.
Better than the current system? IMO it IS by a wide margin. This would be much fairer to both parties than the sorry excuse for a feedback forum that we have right now.
I have never left a neg for a deadbeat and I never will under the current feedback system. It simply wouldn't be a wise business decision.
[ edited by MrBusinessMan on Jul 6, 2001 05:07 PM ]
posted on July 6, 2001 05:08:29 PM new
I too am in the same boat. I am just like you, make the custom happy and build a customer base. 490 feedbacks. Keep them happy.<P>
Ummmm....Sorry...NPB..File...Email...Wait 30 days....Be Kind....Email...Nothing...Finally...Try to help the communitiy...Let them know that this bidder is not serious..And you get Negative Feedback from them!!!!<P>Here I am...Kind...Listing...Trying to be a good seller and that's it...The only thing that any buyer looks at is the negative!!!<P> Guess What!! I have just filed my 5th negative feedback because if you don't make the system work for you then the system will not work!!!!!<P> I will no longer be held hostage by the system!!!!!<P> Michael E Schmidt
posted on July 6, 2001 05:14:08 PM new
Just wanted to let you know that I have never been on a message board before. Just happened to make a mistake and click on it. I hope that every seller will read this and commment....Michael E Schmidt
posted on July 6, 2001 05:25:33 PM newMrBusinessMan
I have never left a neg for a deadbeat and I never will under the current feedback system. It simply wouldn't be a wise business decision
Why?
I've negged a number of bullies and haven't received anything in return....
IIRC, the negs were " no payment at 21 days, FVF request filed" or some such verbage...
This was back in the days before all the FVF regs...
In the RW, I've also fired a number of slow-paying customers...hurt the bottom line short-term but who needs collections headaches?...not me. I'd rather spend my valuable time on jobs for paying customers.
I can't see a real problem with the current system unless the majority of the buyers can't read and understand what the feedback forum is all about.
I've made major purchases on eBay, some in the thousands of dollars, and the information derived from feedback has never steered me wrong...in the few purchases which have gone wrong, I had a gut instinct (from the feedback) that they might and prepared for that contingency.
Do you really feel that retaliatory negs can materially impact your business? And, if so, have you quantified this in your own eBay sales? Also, if/when you've received these negs, are they primarily from people who make little or incomprehensible contact with you prior to negging you?
IMO, that would be important from a customer-service standpoint....
I'm always willing to learn new customer service ideas and tricks...
posted on July 6, 2001 05:33:19 PM new
Hey pender....some threaders here will tell ya that those negs you got
are Badges of Honor...
Soon you will so many badges pin to your chest you cant walk..
Then you get to watch all you bidders move on to you competitor auctions..
The good new is that it is almost as fast to open a new sellers
account as it does to open a new bidder account..
posted on July 6, 2001 05:49:47 PM newDo you really feel that retaliatory negs can materially impact your business? And, if so, have you quantified this in your own eBay sales?
Very fair questions. And the answer to both is a resounding yes.
There are 7 "regular" sellers in my main category, including myself. We sell pretty much identical items with very minor variations. For the most part we list with the same starting price, shipping/handling charges, and TOS. While our item descriptions are different, I consider all of them to be well-written and accurate. In other words, we all play with pretty much the same ball on the same field.
Except for one thing: My competitors neg deadbeats religously. I don't. I file NPBs and FVFs and move on. They rack up retaliatory negs on a fairly regular basis. One has 30 odd negs, most of which appear to be retaliatory from deadbeats. The one with the least number of negs after me has 5 (as of yesterday morning) with 2 neutrals. I, on the other hand, have zero negs (I had 2 but both were removed after I proved to SH that they were left by juveniles). My feedback number is less than half of 2 of the other sellers and lower than all but 3 of them.
On a weekly basis, my total number of bids are anywhere from 30% to 50% higher than those of my closest competitor. (I track these statistics regularly.) My auctions leave theirs in the dust almost every week. One competitor had 2 negs and was doing pretty well. About 2 months ago he got hit with 4 in one week and his bids dropped like a rock. Although they are back up a little bit, they are nowhere near their previous level.
Of course there could be other factors in play, but the negs (and my lack of them) are the only constant in the mix and everything else is pretty much equal among us.
I constantly do market research and analysis snd track these things religously (for 2 years now). So my decision not to neg deadbeats isn't based on beliefs, it's based on results from an ongoing 2 year old system of research and analysis.
posted on July 6, 2001 06:02:40 PM new
I stumbled on a seller the other night that has 1688 feedback and 246 negs! He/she has the ebay store so I checked out his other auctions and he has 42+ pages of auctions all of which have 5-19 bids on EVERY auction. Most bids are over $80.00 and some in the $100's. Couldn't believe this! If must not effect some people selling on Ebay.
If I see negs on a seller I read them and compare to the positive and can usually see if the bidder is just hard to please or NPB. Most seasoned sellers and buyers can tell the difference.
By the way just how many negs do you have to get before Ebay gives you the boot?!
posted on July 6, 2001 06:04:53 PM newMrBusinessMan
Good information!
And your explanation raises a valid point. What good does it do to neg deadbeat buyers?
The only thought that comes to my mind is to possibly warn other sellers that this buyer could be a problem.
The parallel in my realm would be one of my vendors/customers telling me (if I asked) that a potential customer is a collections problem. Sharing that information doesn't really help them but could help me immensely in evaluating the credit-worthiness of the customer.
Since, in your situation, you've seen that keeping customer info and difficulties close to your chest has paid off, then, pragmatically speaking, it's the best course of action.
It sounds as if, with the additional sales, you shall soon eclipse those competitors and leave them scratching their heads as to why...
This doesn't mean I'll change my methods but I do indeed have a greater appreciation for yours....
May I venture a guess that you sell primarily to young people, in the 18-25 demographic? The information you've shared gives me that impression...
posted on July 6, 2001 06:18:00 PM newMay I venture a guess that you sell primarily to young people, in the 18-25 demographic?
Most of the bidders in my major category are ebaY and/or computer newbies, but not necessarily young (although the majority probably are). It's very rare that one of my winning bidders has a feedback number over 100, and most are newbies with less than 10 feedbacks total.
All but 1 of my competitors had a 2 to 3 year jump on me on ebaY so they have large feedback totals. But I'm quickly catching up to those ahead of me and I've already passed a couple of them.
While many "ebaY savvy" bidders will indeed look at the actual feedback comments and consider negs with an open mind, my opinion is that most do not (again, based on my research). Why should they when there are other sellers with no negs to have to wade through? And this goes double for the newbies that I deal with on a daily basis.
posted on July 6, 2001 07:51:28 PM new
Hello paws4god
you say “If I see negs on a seller I read them and compare to the positive and can usually see if the bidder is just hard to please or NPB. Most seasoned sellers and buyers can tell the difference.”
What about the not so seasoned bidders? There are few out there..(few million)
MR BUSINESS MAN handle says it all BUSINESS...I want all bidders ..not just the
smart ones..
I don't know what to say about some not figuring out what might be going on with the negs. But then I don't have any suggestions to improve the feedback system either.
Surely even new users can see if a seller has 300+ positives and only a handful of negs chances are the negs MIGHT be unjustified. Plus I have noticed the seller and buyer can reply to the negative given to show reason(s) for neg.
I wish there could be a more honest and effective form of feedback.
posted on July 6, 2001 08:39:57 PM new
After several years of observation I have discovered that feedback seems to have little if any impact on eBay sales. It is given far too much credit. Many sellers fear that negative feedback will destroy them. Not so. And bidders with negative feedback abound and continue to bid with impunity. The only thing that feedback seems to provide is a tiny glimpse into the individual's character.
The feedback system is flawed and could use an overhaul but it's a major undertaking and eBay has nothing monetarily to gain from doing so.
Leaving or receiving negative feedback is neither constructive or destructive. It is merely a personal statement of dissatisfaction. If your motive in leaving negative feedback is to somehow improve a mythical community, you are seeing things through rose colored glasses.
Negative feedback is often left in haste during the heat of anger. If doing this gives you a measure of satisfaction then you can't complain when the recipient counters to avenge a slap in the face. It's human nature.
As a seller, I won't leave negative feedback. It is simply a waste of my time. I know this view is unpopular with some but I am not just an eBay seller. In my life outside of the e-world, I conduct business quite successfully without getting my personal feelings involved. It's like they say, "strictly business".
posted on July 6, 2001 09:38:52 PM new
I'm curious sosoal....do you leave positive feedback? If so, what criteria do you use to deem this more productive than a neutral or negative?
Would this same philosophy extend into the B/M where vendors report both good and bad "feedback" to credit reporting bureaus?
I make many decisions about loaning money based on credit reports in my capacity as a decision maker for my credit union....I'm sure glad someone is trying to provide a reasonably accurate picture of someones financial situation...
If you had a deadbeat in the B/M world and a business colleague was considering them as a client, would you share the information you knew to be accurate regarding this entity or would you refrain from comment?
Personally, I'm glad my customers and vendors are straight up with me regarding clients....in the markets served by machine shops, we're one, big, mostly happy family and deadbeats rarely get very far....
The only thing that feedback seems to provide is a tiny glimpse into the individual's character
Agreed...and that "only" can be a pretty big and telling one....
