just4laffs
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posted on July 11, 2001 05:25:50 PM
Hi ya'll
There is a seller that I ran across the other day selling watches that are fakes of a certain well known brand name.
Retail on these watches goes anywhere between $300-$1800.
I have my eye on a certain model of these watches so I keep a pretty good watch on the category. Well up pops one for around $50 BIN. I knew it wasn't the real thing, but this seller is not advertising that these are replicas/reproduction of this brand name. I wrote to the seller because I was genuinely interested in this brand and asked that for the price, would I be correct in assuming that these are not the genuine article? The seller replied that I was indeed correct so don't flame me for "assuming" that they are fakes.
My question is.....should I leave well enough alone and anyone that sees a $50 price tag on one of these very expensive watches should KNOW that its a fake? Or, should I report it somewhere? My concience tells me to report it so no one gets ripped off, but......? If I should report it...who should I report to?
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ashlandtrader
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posted on July 11, 2001 05:47:09 PM
Hi just4laffs,
How about emailing the seller one more time and clearly tell them that their ad is not very clear. Ask them to put that they are reproductions in the ad itself. Sometimes you have to spell things out for some folks and this might just be a seller that needs a little nudge in an honest direction.
If that does not work and you see that they are still advertising them and it is not clear it is a fake then I would report them to safeharbor. You could just report them now, but it might be nice to give the seller one final chance to do the right thing.
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dsgn
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posted on July 11, 2001 06:43:02 PM
I once put a Rolex on auction that I knew it couldn't be real, because it was made in Japan or something like that, and noted that it was not real in the auction. I sold the item, got very demanding emails from the buyer, to please, please ship tomorrow etc. I caved in to his demands and shipped the next day. Right after I shipped it I got an Email from Ebay. Seems some helpful Ebayer turned me in. Ebay told me I had listed it against their rules and infringed on Rolex Copyrites. They forgave me, but said I might here from Rolex.
I did, within a few moments. Their lawyers demanded to know where I had bought the watch, warning me not to warn them.
I paniced and put out an sos on this board. I got the nastiest letter from someone. To sum it up: (so you broke the law, and now are crying because they caught you)
Anyhow, I wrote to Rolex, telling them exactly where I got it, and I was ignorant to the fact that I was in error listing it, and never heard from them again. The guy who had purchased it, also got a letter, and was more than happy to send it back, I refunded his money and threw the watch away. I know that I should have known, but I didn't take the time to read all that I should.
The person who is listing this is doing a very dangerous thing, and must not know it, to have the nerve to be arogant in his reply.
I cannot say what your should do in this, but he has put himself in a serious place.
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just4laffs
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posted on July 11, 2001 08:00:32 PM
Well, I e-mailed the seller and politely suggested that he/she might want to add that the watches were repros so that no one would be confused. Will wait and see what happens.
Also noticed that this person also has up for bids some very well known handbags and just got a neg from a buyer that said one was a fake, so who knows what the heck this seller is doing/thinking. They seem to be a fairly new seller with low feedback and fairly newly registered too.
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sulyn1950
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posted on July 11, 2001 08:07:03 PM
It's my understanding that selling a knockoff is illegal. Doesn't matter if you call it a reproduction or not.
[ edited by sulyn1950 on Jul 11, 2001 08:10 PM ]
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hwahwahwahwa
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posted on July 11, 2001 08:27:43 PM
how can you tell from the pic and the price if it is fake??
could be stolen merchandise or IOU collateral from some one/
sometimes you see some company liquidating watches in a supermarket saying retail price is 399 and now it is 29.99.
399 baloney!!!!
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ashlandtrader
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posted on July 11, 2001 08:55:42 PM
I was just posting something in jewelry and this came up (I wasn;t even posting a watch)...
Attention Sellers:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
eBay does not permit the sale of counterfeit or so called "replica" watches. Such sales may violate federal criminal and civil trademark laws.
If you are not sure about the authenticity of your particular watch, please do not list it on eBay -- have it checked out professionally first. eBay does not permit sellers to disclaim knowledge about the authenticity of trademarked goods such as watches.
"
So it is against the rules to sell fakes at all. I guess safeharbor if you want to turn them in to ebay?
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wbbell
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posted on July 11, 2001 08:59:31 PM
well, hwahwahwa in the case of Tag Heuer watches, there are a few telltale signs of a fake that could be very easily discerned from even an average quality picture. I assume that every other brand has similar.
Of course, the fact that someone is selling a $1000 watch for $39.99 ought to be a BIG old telltale sign.
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mcjane
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posted on July 11, 2001 09:01:38 PM
Many bidders know they are buying knockoffs & will gladly pay 50.00 because they can't afford the real thing. That's why these sellers have a lot of positive feedback, the buyer is happy with their knockoff. Once in awhile you see a neg left by a not too smart buyer that thinks he/she was bidding on something worth hundreds & got it for pennies!!! Who in their right mind would auction an item worth hundreds for 1/20 it's value.
I'm amazed at the stupidity of some bidders.
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sulyn1950
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posted on July 11, 2001 09:10:38 PM
"Of course, the fact that someone is selling a $1000 watch for $39.99 ought to be a BIG old telltale sign."
Yeah, but some folks are just very optimistic and hope they have found the buy of the century! 
Of course, I think most of those $1,000 gadgets ought to be $39.99 after all "a watch by anyother name is still just a watch"! 
I know a local businessman who could wear any watch he wanted at any price.
One day a guy showed off his Rolex and said "I paid $800 bucks for this 25 years ago! No telling what it's worth today!"
The businessman showed off his Timex and said I paid $39 for this 10years ago! Bet it's worth about 1/2 that now!
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snipekiller
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posted on July 11, 2001 09:25:40 PM
YOU KNOW it is a very funny thing but I had a real Rolex Oyster and I also had a Tudor Prince dive watch and neither one worked right -- the Rolex was always slow and the Tudor just plain broke during a very shallow dive (yes I actually do that!) Anyway a few years ago before ebay cracked down I bought a fake Rolex Oyster and it works better than the two 'real' watches that I had! It keeps perfect time but it does have two drawbacks: 1) I would not dream of getting it wet 2) it is hopeless in the dark. Other than that I can't help but marvel at the irony.
snipekiller
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mcjane
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posted on July 11, 2001 10:49:27 PM
How true snipekiller, even junk watches are good today. Mine cost 7.00 at a flea market
about 8 years ago & it's still running great.
Of course I don't get it wet either. 
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imme
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posted on July 11, 2001 11:09:56 PM
Shouldn't someone tell Godwill to stop selling fake Rolexs'. I see them there all the time. So to speak.
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hwahwahwahwa
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posted on July 12, 2001 05:55:56 AM
there are rolex imitators out there and one way to tell is that no imitator can replicate the movement -it bumps along.
there is also a korean company which makes fake chanel jewelry,hush hush.
meissen has its staff checking ebay to see where all these vintage meissen figurines come from,it always warn anyone can make that cross sign
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just4laffs
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posted on July 12, 2001 09:25:42 AM
wbbell: Could you go into some detail on how to discern a fake Tag from a real one? If you don't care to go into detail here in the forum, you can contact me at [email protected]
Tanks!
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computerboy
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posted on July 12, 2001 09:41:47 AM
Don't mess around with these unscrupulous sellers. Their intention is to deceive and defraud all bidders, so there is no point in assisting them with their activities.
Simply forward the email where they themselves state that the merchandise they are offering is not authentic to eBay Safe Harbor. Include all headers in the email and help put a stop to these people!
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mballai
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posted on July 12, 2001 09:42:23 AM
Almost anything of high quality is reproduced. The Japanese watch companies made it into the big time copying Rolex. Ditto for guitar makers like Yamaha who copied Gibson and Martin. The fake name alone is what gets people into trouble.
Back when I lived in NYC you could find people selling knockoffs of Rolex or Cartier watches all over Manhattan. Want a "Louis Vuitton" purse? No problemo. These guys did a real brisk business and the police never bothered them.
I used to own a Rolex too and, quite frankly, it wasn't that great a timepiece and is now priced so far beyond its value it is almost a joke.
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wbbell
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posted on July 12, 2001 08:38:18 PM
In the case of this phony Tag Heuer S/EL below, you can easily tell it's fake because the S/EL has rectangles on the hours and not circles.. You could also tell from the band, the fakes are cheaply made with a welded or stamped link. whereas the real deal is precision made and has a double (split) link.
Other models have similar visual tricks, the S/EL is the only one I did any research into.
In case of doubt, you could always ask the seller to send you the model number from the watch and band. Any legitimate seller will know where to look to find these #s and you can verify the number on tagheuer.com. Not many fakes will go to the trouble to engrave the model numbers.
[ edited by wbbell on Jul 12, 2001 08:50 PM ]
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just4laffs
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posted on July 13, 2001 07:13:00 AM
Any opinions on the one below?
This is one of the watches in question.
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computerboy
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posted on July 13, 2001 11:17:06 AM
Nice watch, but impossible to determine authenticity from the photograph.
There are many high quality Tag Heuer replicas. If the watch is being offered for under $400.00, consider it a fake.
Even if the watch was purchased in a liquidation, buyout, overstock or distress sale, there is no way a Tag Heuer 2000 or 3000 watch is going to be able to be sold profitably for less than the above amount.
There are many reputable watch liquidators on ebay. If you do a search under seller proworth, you'll find a buddy of mine, Richard who is a major player in the business. If a watch is found under his pricing, you can bet it is a knock-off.
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just4laffs
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posted on July 13, 2001 03:48:26 PM
WHOA...your buddy has some high end stuff there! A bit too deep for my personal pocket, but the best of luck to him.
As I suspected I never heard back from the seller, and its a bit moot to report a completed fake Tag auction....isn't it? I guess maybe I'll just keep an eye on the market in the future, still would love a SEL for myself.
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gravid
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posted on July 13, 2001 07:06:50 PM
I had a Fake Rolex that was so good it had a self winding movement and the setting mechanism for the time and date unscrewwed like the real thing.
It was very accurate except for three things --
1) the crystal had a green tint when you looked at it sideways through the full thickness.
2) The holes for the little expanding pins that hold the bracelet on went all the way through so there was a hole on the outside.
3) It did not weigh enough.
[ edited by gravid on Jul 13, 2001 07:07 PM ]
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just4laffs
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posted on July 15, 2001 07:41:05 AM
Well, in a strange twist of events, the seller in question is now NARU. I didn't even get around to reporting him. Very strange, maybe someone else reported him to Safe Harbor, possibly the buyer of the Prada bag that she said was a fake?
And...life goes on.
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camachinist
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posted on July 15, 2001 08:30:09 AM
Watch Fakes...what to do?
Chuckle a bit and pass them by?
Modern watches are so accurate and inexpensive, most horologists don't collect vintage/brand name watches because they're better....IME it's because there's a feeling attached to a particular style or brand of watch.
Kind of like the vintage car collector, eptiomized by someone like Jay Leno...
I usually see 15-20 fake Omega's on eBay every day and frankly am too busy searching for that perfect Connie to bother e-mailing sellers or SH....I've long considered the fake/knockoff market to be an entirely separate industry. Most experienced watch/timepiece collectors can spot fakes or mutations in their area of interest (sometimes by buying one *G*) and quickly pass them by.
Ironically, I've often found better deals on my favorite brand on horology web sites like Timezone than on eBay.....and have gotten some great referrals for repair from those kind of sites as well...
Great subject for a Sunday morning!
Pat
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