posted on July 15, 2001 08:12:39 PM
Seems like the deadbeat bidders are really out of the woodwork this summer. I just came across this TOS while searching for some books.
Lot of 5 Paperbacks. #145 (Shows lots of wear.) #243, 244, 231, 259, Cover Shows Some Wear. Interior In Good Shape. SEE PICS! Make sure you actually view the pics before bidding. I have recently had some problems with buyers who did not look to see exactly what they were bidding on. U.S. BIDDERS ONLY! If you are an International bidder contact me before bidding. Due to too many auctions being ruined by International buyers who either cannot read English or choose to ignore the previous statement, I am NOW LEAVING NEGATIVE FEEDBACK for any International Buyer, who is High Bidder on my Auctions! I have tried the polite approach and it has not worked. Complaints about my policy will be deleted.
The Number of Ebayers who bid and do not buy has risen dramatically this summer. I filed 30 non-paying bidder alerts last month & 29 more this past week and left 10 negatives for buyers last month, who did not respond to those alerts. I've been selling on ebay for 2 1/2 Years and this situation just keeps getting worse. Please DO NOT bid if you do not intend to buy. I would rather have the bidder withdraw his bid than to refuse to pay.This is not an online computer game. The people who sell on ebay are trying to make a living. As usual when I add strong language to these discritions, I will get emails complaning that someone has been offended. In this case I think the only people who could possibly be offended are the Guilty Parties. If you are disatisfied with the item contact me within 3 days of recieving the item. Anyone should be able to determine in that length of time if they are satisfied or not. It should not take 2 weeks. Buyer pays Book Rate Shipping. I always ship in boxes, not envelopes. No PayPal. Personal Checks drawn on a USA Bank or USA Money Orders or an International Money Order stating USA Funds are the only form of payment that I accept.
posted on July 15, 2001 08:21:54 PM
what a wind bag. i especially like the part about deleting complaints posted...i assume they mean they will delete complaints in their FB, wow they must have special powers, last i checked complaining in FB is not a valid reason for removal.......kinda makes me want to bid just so i can jerk with this person.....i get my fair share of deadbeats too by the way
posted on July 15, 2001 08:28:59 PM
Hopefully this seller will be gone soon. Sellers like that give us all a bad name. Sounds like this seller doesn't know what they are doing if they are getting so many of them.
posted on July 15, 2001 08:30:53 PM
The irony is that the deadbeats don't read TOS or don't care or don't plan on being deadbeats when they bid. TOS full of threats doesn't bother the bad guys and offends the good guys. A total waste of listing space IMO.
Gerald
"Oh but it's so hard to live by the rules/I never could and still never do."
posted on July 15, 2001 08:43:53 PM
It is extreme and crazy, but I do have sympathy and have had the same escalating bidder trouble myself. I doubt this will help the seller in the least obviously it will only hurt them, but it does lay out the extreme frustration felt when you politely list your terms only to spend countless hours emailing a bidder that Canada and Japan are very far away from each other and how you wished that they had asked for a quote BEFORE bidding on the 85 pound item that can't be sent by regular mail. But your right, the offending bidders won't read it and all the others will run for the hills.
posted on July 15, 2001 08:56:56 PM
You know I can understand writing such a TOS as a sort of therapy or something-- just to get it out. But I would never put something like that in my auctions. If I was looking to buy and ran across something like that, I would hit the back button and buy from someone else.
posted on July 16, 2001 03:54:12 AM
In a way I feel for this person because the deadbeat bidders are running wild over Ebay, and Ebay can't control them! I have had more deadbeats since January 1 than all the previous time I've been selling here (since October 1999). This does not include the slow pays that send excuse after excuse after excuse. I don't enjoy having to chase people for payment. That is exactly why I sold the newspaper I used to publish so I don't enjoy doing it here either. I have reached a level where I just don't give a darn. If payment is not received in 3 weeks I'm filing the alert, final value fee and relist and leave appropriate feedback. At this point I don't even care if one of them gives me a neg in return. Life is too short to worry about people who can't be responsible.
posted on July 16, 2001 05:09:14 AM
I tried to find this seller last night. I would really love to know how they believe this is going to benefit them. I was going the invite them to the thread because I can see no reason for TOS like that. I agree with nothingyouneed, it only makes good buyers push the back buttun or just get out of ebay all together.
posted on July 16, 2001 07:07:06 AM
Important lesson here! Don't write TOS while enraged at the latest deadbeat. While the following is more harsh than I would write, this seller could have said "1)Pay by Money Order or Personal check ONLY. Buyer pays book rate, shipped in boxes. 2)Be sure to view the pics and ask your questions before bidding. 3)I want you to be satisfied, but must be informed within 3 days of arrival of any problem. 4)Sorry but I cannot service International bidders and must cancel international bids. 5)Please DO NOT bid if you do not intend to buy. NPBs and Negs will be posted." I think that would have said it all, and not ticked off too many lookers. BTW, notice the last method of payment: "international Money Orders....". I guess that's why he gets the international bidders. LOL
posted on July 16, 2001 09:31:58 AM
The innocent won't be offended because the innocent don't read either. The few that do read it are hopefully smart enough to know negativity is part of any contract. If they get offended, they are the exact buyers I wouldn't want as buyers anyway because they are typical trouble down the line.
There's nothing in this TOS that would keep me from bidding. All it says is a warning to international buyers and deadbeats. There are no restrictions on innocent buyers, even if you're a late payer.
The seller should elminate emotion. Here's a sample how it should read:
1)International bids will either be canceled or sale voided. A TOS violation will be filed with ebay which may have you suspended.
2)If an emergency arises let me know, don't ignore my emails. After 30 days I file a TOS violation with ebay that may have you suspended.
3)If you bid on the wrong item or change your mind after you won, you are still held to your bidding contract. Violators are reported to ebay for TOS violation and you may be suspended.
I wish ebay would allow a seperate area on the same page but different section for a TOS.
posted on July 16, 2001 12:54:59 PM
Since I'm having a bad hair day, AND my kitchen is flooded from a water pipe break, AND it's Monday, I'll post the TOS I'd LIKE to use:
1. Slow payers will be tracked down and tortured.
2. Deadbeats will be shot (I WILL find you).
3. Don't even THINK about bouncing a check.
4. Polite requests for a refund submitted within 3 days of receiving item will be cheerfully handled. Rude or unreasonable requests, or those made after the deadline, will be handled by my assistant, Crusher, except on Wednesdays when he visits his parole officer.
5. I leave negative feedback for everybody. Don't take it personally or retaliate. It's just my way.
6. I ship when I damn well please, primarily on days that I don't have a hangover.
7. Bid with confidence. Customer Service is our 157th priority.
I have, on several occasions, not bid on items that I wanted because of TOS like that. I have always assumed that this seller is a problem that I don't want.
posted on July 16, 2001 01:09:22 PM
i've been tempted to address some of the problems i've had in a tos (international bidders bidding and winning without asking first if it's ok, checks sent when i stated m.o. and paypal), but haven't done it. as others have said, i don't think it'll stop the 'problem bidders,' and i do think negativity is more likely to turn buyers off. i think mentioning negative feedback right off the bat is a bad idea. if i really wanted the item, and the seller didn't have bad feedback, i'd probably get it anyway, but it might well change my mind if i were on the fence. makes the seller sound grouchy
posted on July 16, 2001 01:48:15 PM
"I have, on several occasions, not bid on items that I wanted because of TOS like that. "
What do you bid on, cookie recipes and orange peelers? Have you been a deadbeat before, is that why you'd feel insecure buying from someone protecting their interests? I bet you only vote for a person running for president if they smile a lot?
This seller is taking action to keep unprofitable people away from her auctions, that is a smart way to run a business.
posted on July 16, 2001 02:00:46 PM
Com'on quick. Nobody here has said that those terms are not necessary. It is simply better not to dump all that ire on the poor soul who happens by to look at an auction. My earlier post shows how all of his terms could be stated, much more clearly, and without boring anyone. In an auction where like items may be listed by several sellers, people will definitely lean toward the more friendly terms, even at a cost of a buck or so. I'd be afraid with him that if the mail held up my payment a few days or if my email didn't arrive right away (neither one a rare happening) I'd have a npb and a neg before we could straighten it out.
posted on July 16, 2001 02:13:57 PM
Quickdraw, I'd be hesitant to bid on this person's auction as well. An auction page is not a forum for venting. Their terms could be stated in a businesslike manner as others have illustrated in this thread. Since they feel "the polite approach" has not worked, they decide to talk down to all the potential bidders like misbehaving children. I wouldn't want to reward the sort of listing that feels the need to dip into sarcastic territory with lines like "This is not an online computer game." Besides, have they analyzed why the "polite approach" hasn't worked? It's because there is nothing that will act as a firewall against NPBs. Taking the polite or businesslike approach at least has the benefit of not alienating some of your potential audience.
posted on July 16, 2001 02:32:13 PM
You don't max your profit by chasing after deadbeats either. If someone is offended by her TOS, once she scared those emotional people away, then she can raise her prices because the people remaining that bid aren't whine prone and won't whine about her increased prices.
posted on July 16, 2001 02:47:23 PM
I don't want to buy your item because you talk down to deadbeats. What? Like I said, it is a mistake of the seller to invoke an unwanted emotion, but even though you probably feel the same as the seller, you just don't list your feelings anywhere, so somehow this seller may be malicious and you're not? Do I hear hypocracy?
posted on July 16, 2001 03:18:18 PM
Isn't it funny (odd not haha) that some see this as over the top and a bad seller and some don't?
I for one, don't see a thing wrong with it. I think this seller took great effort to "explain" the problem to everyone as to why the TOS was as such.
As one poster has mentioned, this seller is obviously doing more than complain about deadbeat bidders on a chat board! They are actually attempting to perhaps "educate" some buyers who really don't think about the effect their actions have on a seller. Maybe they might think all eBay sellers are just the guy next door unloading the junk in the garage! So what if they don't follow through?
Who knows, maybe this seller educated your next bidder! You might want to send them a thank-you note.
I looked up the party in question and read the TOS. At first, I too would have clicked back and moved on. WAAAAAAAAY too much needless info on problems in those descriptions.
Then I checked the feedback.
Over 3,000 positives and only 12 negs, not that bad.......so I looked more into the matter.
After carefully looking through the feedbacks, I see what appears to be a good seller that finally got ticked off enough to let people know about it. I can't say that I blame them. My last 15 auctions ended with 4 non-payers that got credit notices today. (2 of which are now NARU) Good for the people that are fighting back!
The ONLY possible problem I see is the seller doesn't list the shipping charge in the descriptions. (at leat any that I saw)
On their 'ME' page they comment that some people think the shipping charge is too high but I don't see any comments in the feedback about it. I'd like to have an idea of the charge for a magazine before I bid.
Anyway, for those of you that said they would 'move on'......I can see why.
But if you would take a minute to look a little further into the deal, you might understand the feelings a little better.
I did!
"This is not an online computer game."
That part I disagree with.
This IS a game, no more, no less.
posted on July 16, 2001 05:05:31 PM
Quickdraw, the TOS in that auction comes across as being just plain surly. Like it or not, sellers are their own customer sales representatives. I once went to place an order at a fast food restaurant, and the teen behind the counter started rambling on about how terrible his job was. Know what? I don't care. Just serve me my food. It's the same thing with needlessly harsh TOS - tell me your terms and I'll bid or not bid depending on your terms. Get surly with me, and I'll go to a seller with a friendlier disposition.
And as far as dealing with deadbeats - stating harsh, emotional terms will do absolutely nothing to shoo them away. If anything, they make themselves an easier target for ebay "joybidders" because they know how irritated the seller will get.
