posted on July 31, 2001 06:32:20 PM
I normally post in RT, but I just got this in my email and I have to rant. RT is for Bush bashing and Movie reflections, a place to make a friend and share a joke (well, this could be considered a joke I guess).
I sold a widget and the VALUE of the widget was much more than what the high bidder got it for (No, I dont use reserves). So, I get this email from the bidder:
Hi, I will remit payment. Can I possibly go with delivery confirmation instead of insurance, for 50 cents? I cant see insuring a nine dollar item. Thanks.
Now, I ask you, WHY would this bidder not want to protect the BARGAIN she got? Yes, she won it for 9 dollars, but its WORTH is 75 dollars or more. Duh! Say I win a widget for 250.00 and its worth 250,000.00 and I won it on a fluke. Would I want to insure it for what I won it for, or what the VALUE is on the market? Duh. Where do these people come from?
edited to add that maybe it irks me so much because she is pooh poohing off her high bid and Im SICK that it went for only 9 bucks.
[ edited by hepburn on Jul 31, 2001 06:33 PM ]
posted on July 31, 2001 06:36:17 PM
Did you start it at $1 NR? [just kidding]
Insurance from the USPS will only insure the value of what was paid for the item. At least that's how it worked last time I checked. I see nothing wrong with the request.
posted on July 31, 2001 06:40:12 PM
No, the item is worth MORE than what she paid for it. If what you say is true, then why do people buy on ebay to resell at a higher value in their brick and mortar businesses? My gripe is she didnt want to pay 1.10 for the insurance to make sure it got to her safely. No way would I purchase something and not protect it.
posted on July 31, 2001 06:42:57 PM
According to the US Customs, an items VALUE is determined by what was paid for the item.
They don't give a rats behind what some book or expert has to say about what the fair market value.
posted on July 31, 2001 06:47:23 PMIf what you say is true, then why do people buy on ebay to resell at a higher value in their brick and mortar businesses?
An item may sell for more at a different location, hence it is worth more at THAT location. Again, price paid sets items value...
edited to add, above is true unless price is manipulated by fraud.
posted on July 31, 2001 06:53:07 PM
OK...going on that premise, say you were browsing ebay and stumbled across a REAL Tiffany lamp, bid and won it for 100.00 (assuming the seller didnt realize what he had) and you plan to resell it in your shop for the 4 grand. Now you know full well the thing is worth the 4000.00. Would you insure it for 4 grand? Or just the 100.00 you won it for? Be honest now.
posted on July 31, 2001 06:56:19 PM
morgantown, my policy is insurance is optional. If she doesnt want it, fine. But its up to her. I just dont understand this thinking of hers, and frankly, the people here in EO that have responded. If I won something that I KNOW is valuable, but won it for a song, I would want it protected. Thats the whole point of bidding on something for a profit. If it isnt protected and gets damaged or lost, then I lose out of what the value is on the item I scored.
posted on July 31, 2001 06:58:26 PM
Regarding carrier insurance, you can only insure for price paid - period. If the item is lost or damaged you get back what you paid, not what any potential profit may or maynot have been.
posted on July 31, 2001 06:59:08 PM
You can't get 4 Grand shipping insurance on a item you paid $100 for.
you can only get $100 insurance because thats all its value is to you and all you can prove you paid...
posted on July 31, 2001 07:09:58 PM
I think your all wrong.
If you can provide the PO documented proof of the value of your item then you can insure it for that.
They don't give a rats ass what you PAID for it.(maybe it was a gift?).
You HAVE TO SHOW THE VALUE.....what you paid makes no difference.
I've gone round and round with our postmaster and the claims department about making a claim on some glassware.
They would ONLY PAY a documented value, it made no difference what it was bought for.
The glass was bought for $50, it was insured for $50, but if I could only come up with a replacement value of $35 thats all I would get on the claim.
posted on July 31, 2001 07:13:59 PM
dman3, it was a hypothetical "what if".
I wont commit fraud and didnt realize it could be construed as that if someone won something for 35 dollars and paid 1.10 for insurance of 50.00 to protect their investment IF the post office damaged the item or it got lost. Claiming the 50.00 would be fraud, yes. However, I dont see the reasoning behind even getting insurance if the item you purchased wont be paid for in that event it does get tossed out of the mail truck or squished while enroute.
posted on July 31, 2001 07:15:44 PM
Hi Packer! The document value is what you paid for it. But yes, this could be manipulated. However, what would happen if you sold something that had absolutely NO book value? It's possible.
posted on July 31, 2001 07:17:49 PM
I'm not shipping USPS anymore. But in the past they paid my claims without problem. I sent a bill of sale to bidder with a completed claim form - always paid...
posted on July 31, 2001 07:18:38 PM
Packer is right. When I purchase something on Ebay for a ridiculously low price, I pay the seller extra for insurance for the full book value. The times I've had to make a claim, I have provided documentation from the relevant publication along with the insurance receipt, and have been reimbursed for the full value. The key here is to purchase insurance for the value of the item, as opposed to the cost of the item.
I disagree with Morgantown. An item is NOT necessarily worth what one pays for it on ebay. Could be worth more, and could be worth less. Sometimes it just depends on how badly someone wants it.
posted on July 31, 2001 07:20:34 PM
I think the bigest thing for the buyer here is that the $1.10 for insurance incresses there total cost for the Item by 10% ... http://www.Dman-N-Company.com
Email [email protected]
posted on July 31, 2001 07:28:47 PM
The documented value is NOT NESCESSARILTY WHAT YOU PAID FOR IT. They reqiure like a "book value" or they will accept something from an on-line replacement center.
And, yes, your right some things just do not have value per-say, like a homemade heirloom(quilt) grandma made. To you its worth $100's. You send it to your sister across country, how in the heck are you going to insure and for how much AND if its damaged by the PO how are you going to prove its worth.
THERE INSURANCE IS WORTHLESS...unless you are sending/selling well documented merchandise.
Now if hepburn knows and can prove that this item would cost $75.00 to REPLACE then by all means insure it for that. If she has to replace it for the buyer then she'll need the $75.
She admits the buyer bought right and got a good deal. What about all those good deals that got had when eBay crashes and prevents last minute bidding. That doesn't make the item LESS VALUABLE.
posted on July 31, 2001 07:34:07 PM
Taken from USPS DMM:
Evidence of Value 2.6
The customer must submit acceptable evidence to establish the cost or value of
the article at the time it was mailed. (Other evidence may be requested to help
determine an accurate value.) Examples of acceptable evidence are:
a. Sales receipt, invoice, or statement of value from a reputable dealer.
b. Customer’s own statement describing the lost or damaged article and
including the date and place of purchase, the amount paid, and whether new
or used (only if a sales receipt or invoice is not available). If the article is
handmade, the statement must include the price of the materials and labor
used. The statement must describe the article in enough detail to determine
whether the value claimed is accurate.
c. Picture from a catalog showing the value of a similar article (only if a sales
receipt, invoice, or statement of value from a reputable dealer is not
available). The date and place of purchase must be included.
d. Paid repair bills; if the claim is for partial damage, estimates of repair costs or
appraisals from a reputable dealer. Repair costs may not exceed the original
purchase price.
e. Receipt or invoice for the costs incurred to buy a surety bond required to
reissue a lost item.
f. Receipt or invoice of costs incurred for the reconstruction of nonnegotiable
documents.
posted on July 31, 2001 07:36:06 PM
Now I'm not so clear. They want a sales receipt or statement from a reputable dealer. Does it work either way? And how the hell would a "reputable" dealer be determined? I'm talking antiques and collectibles here?
posted on July 31, 2001 07:38:27 PMc. Picture from a catalog showing the value of a similar article (only if a sales receipt, invoice, or statement of value from a reputable dealer is not available). The date and place of purchase must be included.
And this is precisely what I have used for full reimbursement. The KEY here, is that the insurance MUST be purchased for the desired reimbursement value. And that value must be able to be documented.
KatyD
(ubb)
[ edited by KatyD on Jul 31, 2001 07:39 PM ]
posted on July 31, 2001 07:40:40 PM
morgantown, speaking for myself, I refuse to ship USPS. Says so in my TOS, too. I only ship UPS. Period. I tell the high bidder to purchase insurance IF THEY WANT IT. Otherwise, I am not responsible for lost, damaged or stolen items. Says that in my TOS too. Again, what bugged me was the lady in question figured what she won was worth what she paid for it and that isnt the case. Yes, I can prove the item would sell for 75.00 and up IF bought at a boutique. Point is, I started the bidding low, figuring it would go up. Imagine my surprise (and disgust) that it didnt. Add to that the lady having the mindset that what she won was worth exactly that, and my patience level flew out the window. In short, I cop't a 'tude. After ranting about it, I have come to the conclusion that I am indignant that she didnt want to protect what she won for a piddle sum. (Wish she would back out. Hell, I would rather have kept it than see it go for 9 bucks)
posted on July 31, 2001 07:41:00 PM
morgantown,
Let me try and explain.
Lets talk about INSURANCE FRAUD...
I sent you an item, I paid $2.00 for it, I sell it to you for $10.00. But we/us working together decide it must be worth $90 and write a bill of sale for $90. I buy insurance for $90 and send it on its way with a bill of sale.
You say it arrived broke, you take your broken item, bill of sale and my insurance stub that I sent you to make a claim. You honestly think their going to just hand you $90 on that bill of sale alone? THINK AGAIN......you/me has to provide some documented proof of the value. And if all you can come up with is it sells at walmart for 10 bucks...thats all your going to get. THEY DON'T CARE that you may have paid $90 for the darn thing.
posted on July 31, 2001 07:44:43 PM
I know Packer, that's what I meant by price manipulation. What if it was Grandma's quilit and I just had to have it. So did another bidder. After the bidding war was over I ended up paying $350 for it. It was lost in the mail. I have proof that I paid you $350 and that it sold on eBay for that price.
Plus, this quilt cannot be found in any catalog or on eBay. It was one-of-a-kind.
posted on July 31, 2001 07:45:26 PM
Morgantown, I deal mostly in pottery and glass. A "value" can be documented by a bill of receipt, OR a "book" value, OR a certified appraiser's statement. But the key is that there MUST be some provable "documentation" as to the value. Of course if one pays $1.10 for $50.00 worth of insurance, all the "documentation" in the world that values the item at $1000.00 isn't going to do any good. The most that will be reimbursed is $50.00. But if one purchases a $10.00 item, AND pays to insure it for it's "documented" value of $1000, he/she will be able to recoup the $1000 value if the item is broken in transit. Of course proper "documentation" must be provided when filing the claim.
posted on July 31, 2001 07:48:23 PM
But KatyD, wouldn't the PO request bill of sale proof first? Book value or apraiser would be used in cases of no bill of sale?
