yumacoot
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posted on August 6, 2001 11:30:44 AM new
I had a question from a bidder...I think I already know the answer....This has NEVER happened to me before with International bidders...here it is:
"Hi, I am interested in bidding on this widget. I live in ***,***, Canada. Do you know approx what shipping would be and would you declare it as a gift to me so I wouldn't have to pay for it again when it arrives?"
Didn't I read somewhere on these boards that it a felony to lie on the customs forms?
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sulyn1950
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posted on August 6, 2001 11:59:05 AM new
I don't know if it's a felony, but it is IMHO untruthful! You must sign the form and state that the facts are correct. So, if you state the facts are truthful and they are not, that is being dishonest. I know there are many ways of looking at it, but I personally don't think there is any such thing as a "little dishonest" any more than I think there is such a thing as a "a little pregnant". Either you are are you aren't.
At least this person asked before bidding. So he/she must realize it is an issue for some. That's good. The choice is yours.
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gs4
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posted on August 6, 2001 12:06:56 PM new
Just tell them thanks for considering bidding on your auction, the shipping rate is XXXX but you will not be able to lie on a Customs form. A mail order house will not lie either.
Over a certain dollar amount they will usually have to pay the fee anyways, whether it is a gift or not.
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kudzurose
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posted on August 6, 2001 12:11:33 PM new
I would assume since the customs laws are federal laws, not state laws, that it certainly could be a felony to lie on those forms - but don't know how likely it is that anyone would be prosecuted for saying something was a gift, when in fact it was merchandise.
I was asked once to do this, and I just politely refused; I told the buyer that since I mail merchandise all the time that my postal clerks would know perfectly well that the package was something I'd sold, and not a gift. The buyer accepted my decision and the transaction was completed with no problems.
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cdnbooks
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posted on August 6, 2001 01:04:24 PM new
eBay purchases are not gifts.
In Canada we get a small exemption (about US$ 13.00) for almost all goods and a slightly higher exemption for gifts. I have forgotten the exact amount, but it is somewhere around US$ 35.00. Fees are charged, on the entire amount, above these limits
Very few goods from the US into Canada attract duty. However, Canadians are required to pay sales tax (the same tax they pay if they purchase at a Canadian B+M store) plus a US$ 3.50 service charge on goods entering Canada.
Bill
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PJ38
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posted on August 6, 2001 01:24:20 PM new
Wow, "cdnbooks"/Bill, could those greedy Canadian "Fees+" be construed as violations of NAFTA in spirit, if not in letter. Perhaps eBay Items shipped to Canada from the US should be by Mexican Truck. I need a (cU); don't worry, I'm not Bidding or Editing photos this afternoon. -JP187-
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david2001
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posted on August 6, 2001 01:24:45 PM new
All of you nervous nellies oughta give it a rest.
Lying on the customs form is a CNADIAN OFFENSE, it has NOTHING to do with the U.S.
So, unless you are worried about a mounty riding up to your door, you're overreacting.
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eleanordew
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posted on August 6, 2001 01:30:50 PM new
Actually, I think I'd look forward to a Mountie riding up to my door -- I LOVE men in uniform!! LOL
El
"The customer may not always be right, but she is always the customer."
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PJ38
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posted on August 6, 2001 01:32:37 PM new
CNADIAN mounty? "Whoa (N)ellie!" x 7 -PJ187-
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kiara
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posted on August 6, 2001 01:35:33 PM new
LOL The spelling police just rode in. I think our "Canadian" friends up north call them "Mounties".
I also think the person sending the package is responsible for the information that they write on the customs form, not the recipient?
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commentary
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posted on August 6, 2001 02:32:50 PM new
Does anyone have any citations indicating that this is a crime?
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skeetypete
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posted on August 6, 2001 02:44:01 PM new
david2001
i agree, do your canadian brother a favor and say it is a gift....they take a beating on the customs fees etc.....if it is against the law, so what, how many laws do you selectively break on a daily basis??? speeding, rolling stops, drinking and driving etc.......i say send it as a gift and get over it
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mballai
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posted on August 6, 2001 04:52:32 PM new
Our eBay ethics class has begun:
If a seller will lie FOR you, what makes you think he won't lie TO you?
or
If the price of a seller's integrity sells out for just a couple of dollars, would you risk sending a large amount of money to such a seller?
While I am not keen on the government extracting their pound of flesh, it is just not a good idea to do. Integrity is earned...it's not worth selling for chump change.
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spyked
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posted on August 6, 2001 05:04:20 PM new
I've been marking "gift" on my customs forms with my eBay packages for the last 3 years - and NO ONE has EVER said a word. I guess I'm not as paranoid as others...
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kudzurose
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posted on August 6, 2001 05:52:42 PM new
For some of us, being "nervous nellies" or being paranoid is not the main issue.
Thank you, mballai.
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Microbes
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posted on August 6, 2001 06:34:08 PM new
If a seller will lie FOR you, what makes you think he won't lie TO you?
Interesting question. I think I will ask the next buyer that asks me to "gift" a customs form.
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commentary
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posted on August 6, 2001 07:41:43 PM new
Never knew there was so many people who have never told a lie in their life. I guess some of us can glance at the mirror and know exactly what is looking back at them.
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david2001
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posted on August 6, 2001 07:54:06 PM new
Some things in life are just not that big a deal. Lying on a customs form is one of them.
Anyone who judges integrity based on such a superficial matter is a fool, and no doubt has their own skeletons to hide.
Guaranteed.
[ edited by david2001 on Aug 6, 2001 07:54 PM ]
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mballai
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posted on August 6, 2001 08:05:25 PM new
I cannot claim to being faultless in the truth department and that's not the point. I just know that telling the truth makes for a whole lot less complicated life--and some of that comes from painful experience.
Who wants half of their life spent trying to cover the garbage of the other half? Doing the right thing can be remarkably rewarding. If nothing else, you'll sleep better at night.
Calling someone a fool doesn't make them that. But if you can so desperately try and justify lying on a customs form by using ad hominem attacks instead of reason, you've already proven my point.
Integrity in the smallest things matters otherwise trust in larger ones is impossible.
[ edited by mballai on Aug 6, 2001 08:30 PM ]
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sparkz
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posted on August 6, 2001 08:34:41 PM new
Yumacoot,
To answer your original question, putting fraudulent information on PS 2976 or 2976A and signing your name to it is perjury. Perjury is a felony. Realistically, you have a better chance of winning the lottery than being prosecuted for perjury ( unless the Government has other issues with you), but it's still a felony that can net you 5 years in the slammer.
The light at the end of the tunnel will turn out to be an oncoming train.
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kiara
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posted on August 6, 2001 09:02:45 PM new
Personally I wouldn't risk my business for a stranger that bid on my auction.
It may seem like a minor thing to do or a nice thing to do with little chance of getting caught but does anyone know exactly what kind of records they keep at Customs?
Would the person bidding on your auction do the same thing for you if the situation was reversed and do you put a gift card in each package?
If you are sending a lot of packages as gifts and Customs starts to take note are you willing to give up your international sales if you are caught? Ask yourself how much it will affect your sales and if it is worth the risk.
I am not telling anyone how to run their business. To each their own.
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twinsoft
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posted on August 7, 2001 01:05:22 AM new
Sigh...
I blame the parents.
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ahc3
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posted on August 7, 2001 12:01:36 PM new
I've been asked this before, and I won't do it. Just because they are unhappy about the taxation issue doesn't mean I should lie about it! However, I never include the postage in the total, just the amount of the goods.
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RB
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posted on August 7, 2001 12:11:32 PM new
Does anyone have any citations indicating that this is a crime
Do a search for "Canada Customs" ... the law prohibiting this is quite clear.
And, I...AM...CANADIAN (darnnit sometimes!)
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peiklk
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posted on August 7, 2001 12:13:15 PM new
Lying is lying.
The ONLY correct way to fill these out (for an ebay sale) is to put the final sale value. Period. Not shipping or anything else. If they paid 10, you put 10. If they paid 100, you put 100.
Checking GIFT is lying and even if you never get caught, you've still lowered your value as a human being.
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arewyn
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posted on August 7, 2001 12:26:33 PM new
Ummmmm... seems funny to me to put a $$ value on the contents and then check the 'gift' box. If it's really a gift, do you have to tell the recipient how much you paid for it? If you want to impress the giftee and say you spent $$$$$$$ on their gift, do they have to pay extra for the Wow! value?
And what if you're sending them a hand-knitted scarf that Aunt Bertha made you... wouldn't that be priceless? What do you say then?
I hate those customs forms. We have friends out of country, and sending them Christmas presents is no fun - there's no surprise in it for them. <<sad.gif>>
I can't believe how much Canadians have to pay to pick up a package at the Post Office. For that kind of money they should get doorstep delivery! By Mounties!
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Eventer
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posted on August 7, 2001 12:40:13 PM new
arewyn,
You don't have to list out every item. If you research it on the USPS site, they tell you what to do if you don't want to list the details of what is in the package. Or just mark it "gifts".
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cvan
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posted on August 7, 2001 06:17:45 PM new
Where is red-deer when ya need him.
(spel chexed by druther)
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david2001
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posted on August 7, 2001 06:25:06 PM new
Checking GIFT is lying and even if you never get caught, you've still lowered your value as a human being.
If only we could ALL live up to the pristine paradigm that you so clearly are.
I just wish I could know the real story behind those making such lofty proclamations.
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Microbes
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posted on August 7, 2001 06:39:49 PM new
Gee David, you make it sound like honesty is a rare thing. Maybe in Washington DC it is...
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