posted on August 7, 2001 08:00:12 PM new
I was unaware of the policy that says you can't apply an additional charge for PayPal users. I was notified last night that Ebay would cancel my auctions unless I put in a statement that this was an error and that the charges would not apply. I did that today on the ones I had bids on already, and then I removed the statement from my other listings. On the ones where I added the statement, they cancelled them anyway.
What gives?
What can I do now? I had some good auctions going, and I want them reinstated!
posted on August 7, 2001 08:22:23 PM new
Hi there,
About all you can do is write to eBay at [email protected] and ask for your listing fees back, and then relist your cancelled auctions w/o the offending statements.
posted on August 7, 2001 09:07:02 PM new
You realize of course it is not eBays policy or even paypals policy regarding passing on the fees, but it is actually the law that says it is illegal to do that. If it was legal, every store in America would be charging a surcharge for every credit card they accept, but you do not see that, because what they do and what many others on eBay are doing is putting that into the handling charge. It is legal as long as you don't say "I'm charging you extra for using a credit card"
posted on August 7, 2001 10:33:48 PM new
Anytime I go to one of those local computer shows, they always offer discounts for cash. How is that different(really) from charging a fee for using a credit card?
My advice - Increase your handling charge to cover the paypal fees but charge it everyone regardless of payment method.
posted on August 7, 2001 11:09:00 PM new
OK, just for fun....since it is illegal to pass on a "service charge" for someone to use their cc....how is it PP and BP can charge me??? Afterall, they are the ones actually accepting cc payments NOT me. I am accepting a payment from them. They accepted the payment from the buyer.
Then again, they charge all sellers regardless of whether it is a cc or e-check so I guess that makes it OK!
posted on August 8, 2001 06:16:26 AM newYou realize of course it is not eBays policy or even paypals policy regarding passing on the fees, but it is actually the law that says it is illegal to do that.
Actually, it's not "illegal" at all. There's no law that says you can't charge a fee for accepting payments through third-party payment providers. The laws cover credit cards only -- and you don't accept credit cards when you accept payments through PayPal. PayPal accepts credit cards. And a PayPal member can just as well use cash or a check and your same fee would apply -- so the credit card user is on equal footing with the person who pays cash or by check (which was the point of the law pushed through by credit card companies).
It is however, against eBay and PayPal TOS -- so you still can't do it without taking the chance that your auctions will be canceled.
posted on August 8, 2001 06:28:19 AM new
OK, talk to me like I'm a 6 year old.
We don't have a contract with the CC companies PayPal does.
So how is it they can pass those fees onto us?
And since WE don't have the contract with the CC companies how is it illegal for us to pass along those fees that PapPay charges us to our buyers? What laws would we be violating?
posted on August 8, 2001 07:40:56 AM new
skeetypete, you are correct. However, PAYPAL is the merchant, and cannot charge the credit card user fees.
It is against paypal rules, and Ebay rules to charge the surcharge, but it is NOT against the law for a paypal member to charge fees, because THEY are not accepting the credit cards, THEY are not the merchant. Paypal is.
The best way to get around it is to have discount for paying with check or money order.
posted on August 8, 2001 08:43:28 AM new
As others have said, it is not against the law, it is just against the terms of service of credit card companies, paypal and ebay. I've seen many instances where fees are charged. I don't know why anyone would risk losing their merchant status by doing this. Anyway, one simple way around this is to simply offer a cash (or money order or check) discount. This is not against the terms of service of these companies...Probably nothing you can do about your auction except get a refund (which you probably did when they canceled them) and start over.
posted on August 8, 2001 09:15:34 AM new
The cost of doing business should be reflected in the item price or your shipping charge. Whether it's wrong or illegal isn't the big issue, it's very uncool--kind of like wearing your underwear on the outside of your pants.
posted on August 8, 2001 09:38:55 AM new
This is from an eBay page:
An eBay seller may not charge a fee, often called a "credit card surcharge," when accepting credit card payments. This surcharge, which is an added cost to the buyer over and above the final sale price and shipping/handling, is not allowed under the laws of many states, including California.
To me, the words "NOT ALLOWED UNDER THE LAWS OF MANY STATES" means its against the law, and to me that means illegal.
posted on August 8, 2001 10:12:57 AM new
As so often pointed out: I DO NOT have a merchant account with any cc company. BP & PP and other 3rd party payment services do. They are charged a fee by the cc companies for that account. Since they cannot charge a fee to the cc user (buyer), they simply pass that "fee" on to the seller as a "fee for their services, which is they collect money on seller's behalf.
Now, because BP knows that if a seller were to pass the BP fee (which technically is NOT A CREDIT CARD SERVICE FEE AT THIS POINT ) on to the buyer, the buyer may very well opt to not use BP which would not earn BP any money. So, eBay quotes a "rule/regulation" from the credit card industry that says you can't add a service charge fee for use of a credit card. That's just the explaination they give you. Bottom line, as pointed out eBay will not let you pass on the BP fee and that really has nothing to do with whether a cc was used or not!!!
To be able to justify their decision to not allow BP fees passed on to the buyers, they quote the CC rule as their explaination. They also have to make it a blanket thing for ALL 3rd party payment services (I bet they hate that) to make their explaination valid.
I contacted Visa and Mastercard and asked specifically about the service fee in relation to 3rd party billing services. I was told by both that it was up to the 3rd party payment service to set their OWN policy with their users.
That is what eBay has done. PayPal and other 3rd party payment services reap the benifits of eBay's rule of no "service charge for cc use". Which actually translates "no service charge for 3rd party payment services for any reason".
It's eBay playing field, they can set any rules they want. However, I still maintain it is not illegal and that the cc company rules do not actually apply in relation to the online 3rd party payment service companies for all the reasons already pointed out. Buyers can choose to make payment through these services by any number of ways, with cc just being one.
However, to sell on eBay, I will have to follow abide by the TOS.
I can also argue 'till I'm blue in the face and I will not change eBay's mind.
posted on August 8, 2001 10:37:30 AM new
sulyn1950, it is also Paypal's policy to not permit surcharges for the use of their service. This is taken directly from their TOS:
Under Visa and MasterCard regulations and the laws of several states, including California,
merchants may not charge a fee to the buyer for accepting credit card payments (often
called a surcharge). In order to comply with these laws and regulations, PayPal has
amended its Terms of Use so that, effective March 31, customers may not charge a fee
for accepting PayPal. This restriction does not prevent you from imposing a handling fee
in connection with the sale of goods or services, as long as the handling fee does not
operate as a surcharge (in other words, the handling fee for transactions paid through
PayPal may not be higher than the handling fee for transactions paid through other
payment methods).
[ edited by holdenrex on Aug 8, 2001 10:38 AM ]
posted on August 8, 2001 10:47:53 AM new
My point was not whether it was "cool" or not, or whether it should or should not be allowed. My point was, that they said it's NOT ALLOWED, and I changed my listings to comply, and they cancelled them ANYWAY! And apparently, there's nothing I can do about it.
posted on August 8, 2001 10:55:36 AM new
It seems to me all this really boils down to a few options for sellers:
1)You offer BidPay only as the option for credit card users.
2)You offer a cash discount for checks and moneyorders (guess that would have to cover BidPay too).
3)You just accept the fees charged by 3rd party payment services as a fact of life and find a way to re-coup them elsewhere.
4)Tack on a Handling Fee. Do you think you could get away with a 2.5-3% fee? Keep in mind that's close to what you pay BP or PP. eBay doesn't allow you to tack on a % of final sales price as the HF either, so you have to sorta be "psychic" and "see" what the final price will be and "list" the $$ amount of the HF in the auction to get your needed %! Gets complicated doesn't it?
5)Tack on a HF and then offer to "suspend" it IF they opt for checks, moneyorders or BidPay????
Seems pretty hard to "openly" recoup the fees. It would more than likely make you an unpopular seller and you might even get accussed of "goudging" or trying to "rip off" the buyer.
Can anybody think of any more options or suggestions?
posted on August 8, 2001 11:14:37 AM newBecause technically you aren't paying them w/a credit card, you are paying for the service of taking credit cards.
Eventer hit the nail on the head. When PayPal or Billpoint charges the seller a fee, it isn't a credit card fee at all. It's a fee in exchange for a service performed: You are charged a fee regardless of how the buyer actually funded the payment to PP or BP. Since you aren't paying a credit card fee, it CANNOT be illegal to pass on the PayPal and Billpoint fee. It's logically impossible to pass on a fee to a customer that you don't pay in the first place.
This is a PayPal, Billpoint, and ebaY rule ONLY. It has nothing whatsoever to do with the law.
posted on August 8, 2001 11:14:56 AM new
Heres a thought?? Maybe groups of auction sellers need to get together and have one Merchant account set up (called the Auction Sellers Merchant Account), split the monthly fees, then only pay the discount (%rate) fees for the amount of credit card payments each individual seller accepts per month??? (I hope this is clear as mud) Would that be possible?? I don't understand why we can't just pay a flat fee for credit card payments each month at BP & PP, and not pay any fees for non-credit card payments. I had a buyer send me $100.50 cents (I got only $97.29 of that)added to my account. It would be a severe loss for me, if I had payments of $1000's of $$$ each month to pay that fee on.
Rose
posted on August 8, 2001 12:34:37 PM new
jsmit24- I think if I were you, since ebay told you you could bring the auctions into compliance and not have them ended and then did end them, I would send them an email to [email protected], include a copy of the email they sent you stating you could bring them into compliance without repurcussions, and also include a copy of the email where they cancelled them once you did. You did what they told you and they still nailed you. Maybe you can get some action at that email address.
Hope this helps!
Not Spottydoggy anywhere but here!
[ edited by spottydoggy on Aug 8, 2001 12:58 PM ]
