posted on August 8, 2001 10:42:51 PM new
I am mostly a buyer on ebay. Lately sellers
are sending me automated forms from 3rd party websites. Expecting me to fill in my personal info and submit it to these websites for their conveniance. I am refusing to do this.
Reason? I do not want my personal info in some websites database. I know someone who had their credit card number stolen off of
Andale. There are alot of these Helper websites springing up. Auction Helper, etc (ps. I have used auctionwatch myself to sell) Some of these places change their privacy policies. Then your personal info is sold. Maybe sellers dont care about this but I do. I am stating
to sellers that I prefer all personal info to be between the seller and myself. Now I find the sellers are just typing in my info into
these databases. I get automated responses.
Now I am going to state,"You will recieve negative feedback if my name and address is submited to a 3rd party automated auction helper. I have been on ebay since it was auctionweb. It seems most people are totaly ignorant about issues of privacy.
posted on August 8, 2001 10:58:14 PM new
I use AW's winning bidder notification forms; however, I clearly state that if the buyer doesn't want to use the form, they can e-mail me directly. About half use the form.
As a seller, I need organization and a system so things don't fall through the cracks. However, I need PAYING BUYERS more. If the buyer is uncomfortable using the form, that's no problem. As long as I get the relevant information and the $$$, I'm happy.
posted on August 8, 2001 11:02:48 PM new
As a seller I understand the use of these things for organization, but as an international buyer I often find them frustrating. Even if the seller ships internationally, the shipping options are always just US. So, I worry that I won't be paying enough or that things will get mixed up and I email anyways.
Most auctions that use an auction management service are pretty easy to spot since the service includes a link in the listing. My question is why do you then bid on them anyway? Some people actually conduct their auctions as a business and use these services for financial reports, customer management, recalling shipping data to fight chargebacks etc. You have the right not to bid but you certainly don't have the right to dictate how a seller does his backend BUSINESS.
If you see an item that you want that uses a service just keep clicking past it. In life you can't always have everything you want on your own terms especially in an auction, where the seller sets the terms. These people just want to complete a sale efficiently not be dragged into a privacy diatribe or have their feedback sabotaged because you didn't notice the management service link in the listing.
posted on August 8, 2001 11:21:28 PM new
Just to play devil's advocate ... what makes you think that any individual has a privacy policy? I have a database of a few thousand names and email addresses which would be of great interest to other sellers that sell my type of item. Why should you think I won't sell it myself?
It seems to me that you are just trying to stir the pot. Anyone in the world can get your name and address and add you to a list. Are you going to rail against every single company that does such a thing?
posted on August 8, 2001 11:29:07 PM new
I suppose I could email them immediatly after the auction ends with my name and address,
plus the above statement. I certainly dont want to appear unfriendly or rude;I have met some nice people over the years. I have talked with some sellers about this privacy issue. I have informed them about privacy.org and also about using
personal firewalls.
I really think most do not know. Maybe some do not care. Some buyers prefer and expect a personal transaction. I do not use Pay Pal
either. I follow the sellers terms or I dont bid. However I have my terms also.
posted on August 8, 2001 11:49:56 PM new
Dear Bemused,
I have used auctionwatch and Not used the
automated buyer tracking. Some use this service and some just post the auction with it. You cannot tell what features the seller
is using. I do not go around putting my name and address and buying preferances on websites, or my credit card info. I dont need anyone doing it for me.
There are lots of programz to rid yourself
of doubleclick.
posted on August 9, 2001 12:21:00 AM new
In response to:
"Some buyers prefer and expect a personal transaction."
I'd like someone to push my cart in the grocery store and the UPS driver to stand on my porch until I get home. I'd like the cable company and plumber to make appointments for specific times and be there at the scheduled time.
Personally, if I didn't use AuctionWatch, I wouldn't be able to sell at all. I go to school full time, work part time, and have a little bit of a life and I'm just a very small time seller. I couldn't imagine selling 200+ items a week like some sellers and not use any type of auction tracking system. I'm sure there are others that either wouldn't be able to sell or wouldn't be able to sell the volumes they do without AuctionWatch.
amwell68
[ edited by amwell68 on Aug 9, 2001 12:33 AM ]
posted on August 9, 2001 12:42:51 AM new
I agree with Bemused, basically.
It's clear when these auction helper programs are being used in an auction, and it's certainly not your right or place to question the seller's choice of (legitimate) selling terms. It's grossly inappropriate to leave a negative if the seller resists your borderline-blackmail attempt to force him to alter his terms after the auction has closed.
Personally, I hate Andale, so I just pass up any auction that requires my use of it to complete a sale. Just about any item will come along again shortly, so to quote my Greatgrannie: "Plenty more in kitchen!"
Edited to remove another smileyface. Am I the only one who gets a smileyface when I close a sentence with a quotation mark followed by a close-parenthesis mark??
[ edited by vobistdu on Aug 9, 2001 12:59 AM ]
posted on August 9, 2001 12:43:14 AM new
I got an automated EOA today that said the sellers address to send payment will be available to me only after I enter my address on their 3rd party payment site.
This seller has gone as far as to try to blackmail buyers into entering their personal information onto a 3rd party site.
So I sent a reply to let the seller know I don't enter personal information on 3rd party sites. I got yet another automated reply with a link to a FAQ page this seller maintains.
I am going to try the Ask Seller A Question link on the auction page and see if I get a reply. Automated forms and replies are the pits. This is too much work. All I want is the total amount due, and an address to send payment. I'll never buy anything from this seller again.
posted on August 9, 2001 12:44:54 AM new
Playing more devil's advocate ...
I might start stating in my auctions,"You will recieve negative feedback if you have not looked at this auction and noted that I use a 3rd party automated auction helper. The length of time I have been on eBay is irrelevant -- this is the way it is. It seems most people are totaly ignorant about issues of personal responsibility. I will use the software and features I (the seller) deem applicable for the transaction and not be dictated to by the buyer."
Just wondering if this isn't the 'other' side of the coin ...
posted on August 9, 2001 12:49:28 AM new
How does personal responsibility fit into using automated auction software and wanting buyers to enter information on 3rd party sites?
It's your personal responsibility to look before you leap. You must take it upon yourself not to bid in auctions that require you to use 3rd party auction services.
posted on August 9, 2001 01:02:37 AM new
The auction I bid on had not one word, nor any other indication on the auction page that the seller used an automated system or wanted buyers to enter personal information on a third party site. It wasn't an Andale auction either.
If it did I would have clicked off the page and not bid.
So if a seller *doesn't* disclose that they use automated systems are we to ask before we bid?
posted on August 9, 2001 01:10:48 AM new
In response to:
"It seems most people are totaly ignorant about issues of privacy."
I think that is quite inaccurate and a little harsh.
Some people are just able to weigh the cost between having a little demographic information about themselves (which is what AuctionWatch uses) used and using automated systems that allow greater sales volumes.
The AuctionWatch policy clearly states that no personal information is sold or distributed to any third party.
In this information age, there really is no such thing as privacy. My mother does geanealogy as a hobby, and you can find just about anything you need to find regarding anyone in the US. The only buyer information entered into most auction assistant sites, including AuctionWatch, is the buyers name and address. This information could be found easily by anyone with internet access. The credit card issue with Andale is a little different. But that is one site. AuctionWatch does not ask for the buyers credit card number or any other financial information.
If there's not a hint of 3rd party auction services, I would look at how many current auctions the seller is running. If still in doubt, and that particular item is absolutely vital to you, then I'd ask the seller whether he accepts payments that don't require divulsion of your personal info.
If the seller can't bother to answer, be glad you found out early enough to avoid him--he doesn't deserve your business.
posted on August 9, 2001 01:16:55 AM new
smw -- "How does personal responsibility fit into using automated auction software and wanting buyers to enter information on 3rd party sites?"
***NOTICE*** Devil's Advocate Answers
It is the buyers responsibility to read the auction and make note that the seller is using automated auction software, it is not the responsibility of the seller to change the way they do business for the buyer. The buyer is personally responsible for what they bid, reading and complying with the TOS the seller has stated, and following through with their part of all auction issues. The seller is not responsibile for changing the way that they conduct business for the personal desires of an individual buyer.
IF there is any question as to whether the seller uses automated auction software, the buyer should ask the seller before bidding -- not after the fact and certainly not in any way that seems to tell the seller how to conduct business. Again, personal responsibility.
There is much personal information that is needed IF the seller is generating mailing labels, providing an invoice of any kind, and/or accomplishing any form of general record keeping. IF the buyer wants the seller to change from that method of doing business the buyer needs to state that before they buy, not after the fact. Again, personal responsibility.
posted on August 9, 2001 01:19:12 AM new
In response to:
"So if a seller *doesn't* disclose that they use automated systems are we to ask before we bid?"
Personally, my TOS state that I use AuctionWatch and I believe that the seller should disclose this information.
However, if this isn't disclosed I would say that if this is a serious issue for you and you will not bid if you know the seller uses an automated system, then yes, you probably should ask. Just like any other problem you may have with the seller's policies such as cost or method of shipping, etc.
posted on August 9, 2001 01:39:23 AM new
Sounds like too much work to me. Bidding on auctions is supposed to be fun.
My fundamental belief as a seller is that asking or requiring buyers to enter information on a web site is asking the buyer to do your record keeping for you, (aside from the privacy issues.)
As a seller I want to make the transaction as easy as possible for the buyer. I send the total due and my address and ask for an acknowledgement and their address. I also make the blanket offer to help in any way if I can. I want the buyer to know there is a real live person at the other end of the transaction. I have found that buyers appreciate the offer and often take me up on it.
I believe it is of note that after almost 4 years I have had one bounced check that was made good before I even got it back from the bank, and I have had only one NPB, an out of control kook who bid on almost 800 auctions.
I am convinced that there is a direct relationship between the level of personal service a seller extends and the number of problems sellers have with bidders. Automated programs, 3rd party sites, auto responders for email, etc., isn't my idea of personal service and I believe invites problems and dissuades repeat buyers.
But whatever works for you........
Oh.....I don't wait for checks to clear either....I send items right away.
Personal service is always the best--no argument here. That's one reason I avoid Andale--the sellers are often too busy or rude to offer even basic communication!
As for privacy issues: When you declare publicly that "I don't wait for checks to clear either....I send items right away...", you have given away, IMHO, a more personal and potentially dangerous piece of info than I ever would!
posted on August 9, 2001 03:38:41 AM new
I tried to use AuctionWatches automated EOA notices - I only used it for about 10 auctions - one could read the email (he had a mac), 3 had difficulties with the process on the website - and I never get notice that they put their info in.
My customers and myself seem to prefer the old fashioned way - a form letter I have where the auction id/title is filled in and the bid and shipping prices via excel (you don't expect me to actually ADD do you?)
posted on August 9, 2001 06:16:09 AM new
This is my first post on this site, but I have to jump into this discussion. I personally find the automated forms to be impersonal and annoying. I am both a buyer and a seller. My policy is to pay for the auction immediately after closing. Therefore, I normally receive these notifications AFTER I have paid. Talk about insulting. I feel like a number, not a customer.
I purchase items off ebay for two reasons, it's fun and convenient. When a transaction turns into a 15 minute form, then it is no longer convenient.
Why should buyers have to do the work of the sellers. Tell me ONE business that has this policy.
posted on August 9, 2001 06:16:55 AM new
Being devil's advocate some more
I guess I might not be sure of exactly what "personal info" we might be talking about. Certainly the Shipping Method wouldn't be objectionable and I don't think that indicating the Payment Method would present a problem either. That leaves the Shipping Address as the personal information that a seller would need to complete the transaction.
OK, the seller has 2 choices: the first is to address each envelope or package by hand OR to use an automated system (be it on their personal computer or automated auction software) to print mailing labels. At my age my handwriting is not what it used to be, nor do I have the time to address each and every individual outgoing shipment. The fact that the buyer provides the seller with a shipping address allows the seller to complete their end of the transaction in any manner they deem feasible. Whether the seller enters the information into a local system or an automated auction system, the results are the same -- the buyer does not know what the seller will do with that information once the delivery is made anymore than the buyer knows what the automated auction system will do with that information. At least with some automated auction systems they have 'privacy statements' listed, but with the seller there is no such guarantee.
By the way folks, just so you know .. I too believe in the personal touch and tend to use BOTH methods of corresponding with buyers. I use the WBN automated thingees (to cover myself in the event that I inadvertently skip over someone when I am sending emails out) AND I try to correspond with them on a personal email basis too. BUT I do print mailing labels because I can't even read my own handwriting anymore
posted on August 9, 2001 06:37:39 AM new
I have a very nifty automated shipping system. His name is Tom. I give him all the information after I ply him with coffee on shipping day, and by 130 or 2pm, it's all ready to ship. No more hunting for items, no more wrestling with bubblewrap and tape. Unfortunately, I haven't been able to duplicate him for download.
I send out personal WBN's. But I have a lot of time and not much money, so my goal has been to only pay eBay and PayPal fees. In defense of larger sellers, I'm sure there comes a critical mass where it makes more sense to automate.
When I've purchased anything online other than eBay, I've had to put in my name, address, and cc#, so I'm wondering why, once again, eBay sellers are held to a different standard.
Other instances:
Retailers never charge just postage for shipping, but everyone screams about eBay sellers' handling charges.
Some retailers ship in 4-6 weeks (not all, I know that some ship next day), but let an eBayer wait a week to ship, and all hell breaks loose.
I see this as just another instance. We want eBay sellers to be professional, but we want our warm and fuzzies also.
posted on August 9, 2001 06:54:26 AM new...the buyer does not know what the seller will do with that information once the delivery is made anymore than the buyer knows what the automated auction system will do with that information.
Most sellers wouldn't have enough buyer information to be able to sell (or wouldn't want to go to the trouble of trying to find someone to sell it to), while most automated auction systems would.
At least with some automated auction systems they have 'privacy statements' listed, but with the seller there is no such guarantee.
An automated auction system's privacy statement is only an assurance if it can be depended on not to change, and as anybody who has any experience with internet companies knows, that is no assurance at all.
A seller has no privacy statement? Given that most sellers have no reason or incentive for using a buyer's contact information for anything more than sending him his item, this is a moot point.
posted on August 9, 2001 07:05:45 AM new
I have a Lisa Automated Shipping System Well, its not really automated unless I yell at it and threaten to withhold food. Sometimes it works and sometimes it doesn't. I haven't figured out how to duplicate and send my system out to anyone else either, but there are far too many bugs in the system to think about that right now
I wonder, does your Tom system sometimes go off somewhere and you can't find him? My Lisa system seems to come and go with a life of its own AND is subject to crashing at the worst times I've also noticed a relationship between the amount of food I feed to it and the length/timing of the crashes, so I do try to withhold large quantities of food until the shipping is done. That seems to work sometimes, but it sometimes makes for a very 'balky' LASS (Lisa Automated Shipping System)
posted on August 9, 2001 07:43:35 AM new
I don't understand why anyone would get angry, or even refuse to bid, just because I use AW WBNs. It is my best way of early, concise communication. Buyer should appreciate this. If he doesn't care to fill out the form, just send an email. If he has some issue with auctionwatch, he can just say "please don't use auctionwatch with me." Personally, I really love the WBN, and appreciate it when it gets an electronic response. My customers like it too. I have a couple of times gotten an email instead and that's fine. If I don't hear anything in a couple of days, I just send an email saying perhaps my earlier notice didn't arrive and I'd appreciate a reply.
posted on August 9, 2001 08:24:50 AM new
Excalibur131,
My Tom system DOES wander off often - but not on shipping day. I think your LASS is a little buggier than my Tom.
I've only recently programmed my Tom to do the insurance forms and del. conf.'s. Has your LASS been doing these all along?
Sometimes my Tom System errs when following an instruction like: Don't worry about the insurance form for over $100, I'll do it. But he tries, so I love him.
On shipping day, I recommend not feeding your shipping assistant until after they've completed their task. I find this keeps them peppy and anxious to finish and please.
Good luck, and please fill me in if you ever figure out how we can create downloadable versions of these wonderful assistants!
posted on August 9, 2001 08:38:39 AM new
Thanks for the words of encouragement sadie999
Yes, I think my version is a lot 'buggier' than yours ... BUT I'm not gonna change software (the other software might be even 'buggier')
I am happy to report that I did get LASS working flawlessly this morning though
Yes, my LASS does do insurance forms and dc's ... but that is when she isn't giving me faults and errors. I think I'm progressing pretty good at getting the 'bugs' out her now ... I've noticed that some days she is a lot better than others
I'll try to keep you posted on my progress and if I come up with some helpful 'scripts' or 'add-ons' I'll be sure to let you know
