posted on August 9, 2001 08:34:41 AM
I have been buying and selling for quite a few years and almost every time that someone has something to sell and I ask them how much they want the same thing happens.
They almost always tell me that they don't have a clue, that I am in the business and that I should know and for me to please tell them how much I will pay.
Sometimes I have an idea what the items will sell for but to be truthful, just as often I am not sure what I will get for them.
So I usually end up figuring about 50% of what I might get and then going a bit lower and I make an offer. It seems that they automatically think I am really low balling it so they counter offer with a price that is close to what I would end up selling the items for.
If I go even lower to adjust for their way of thinking, then I am sure I will insult them. So it always goes back and forth and it gets to the point where I dread buying things. But I have found that they usually do have a price in mind. Even when I tell them it is their stuff, they should decide the value, they play dumb.
posted on August 9, 2001 08:52:13 AM
Each person you deal with will be a bit different so it can't be reduced to a formula--you have to go by feel, and sometimes it's just blind luck.
I got a great deal on a large lot of items last week. He wanted an offer, without giving me a clue as to what he would accept. I offered $250.00 and he hedged. Said he wanted to check around. I immediately upped the offer to $300.00, then he was listening again. He countered with $350.00, I said $325.00 and we had a deal.
[ edited by loosecannon on Aug 17, 2001 08:54 AM ]
posted on August 9, 2001 08:54:56 AM
Generally, my approach (using your numbers)is: "I pay 45% of my estimated retail price; the rest covers my expenses & pays my rent. Since I expect your item will sell for around $100, I can pay $45." That leaves 5% ($5) worth of "wiggle room" for those folks who need to feel like they've haggled.
This gives them an explanation of why I'm paying less than they want, and sets it out as "policy".
I also frequently encourage folks to seek competitive offers from other dealers. This increases their comfort level, and assures them that I'm not rushing them into a quick decision.
posted on August 9, 2001 09:14:24 AM
Knowing the merchandise sure helps, doesn't it? LOL!
Almost every time I try to step out of my "realm" of collectibles knowledge, I pay too much to make a decent profit. Once in a while you stumble onto something new to you for cheap cheap and make a tidy sum. That's how my interest got going on some types of collectibles. Stumbling into a great deal.
[ edited by loosecannon on Aug 17, 2001 08:55 AM ]
posted on August 9, 2001 09:34:24 AM
I was taught that in any type of negotiation, silence wins. This worked wonders when we had a car that was a lemon.
The company was trying to work a deal with us to buy back/trade for a new one. We were just trying to run the numbers, not really trying to stall negotiations. Everytime they'd name a price, we'd run it through the formula, that took about 30-45 seconds; before we could accept or decline, they'd quote another (lower) price. We ended up with a really great deal.
(got rid of it soon after, the track record that we had with this car made us nervous!)
posted on August 9, 2001 10:31:44 AM
I am trying to be more aggressive so yesterday I told them it was their stuff, they should decide. Then I tried the silent treatment. LOL, the silence was deafening! Finally I felt like a total DuH and I gave in and made an offer.
From my own experience, if I choose one item from the lot and try to get a feel for what price they have in mind it starts the piece by piece negotiation which takes even longer and I end up paying more.
As far as knowing the market, it is difficult in antiques and collectibles because of the wide range of items.
posted on August 9, 2001 10:52:03 AMmy own experience, if I choose one item from the lot and try to get a feel for what price they have in mind it
If I want several things someone has, that's the first thing I tell them. If they think you'll spend more money, the price normaly comes down at least a little.
posted on August 9, 2001 11:00:30 AM
The seller should name the price. Not to do so is an unfair practice. The seller wants to know if you are aware of the actual value. If you make a high offer, the seller can accept. If you make a low offer, then suddenly the seller knows exactly what the item is worth! For that reason, if a seller tries that tactic with me, and I believe they are not dealing honestly, I will make a very low offer.
posted on August 9, 2001 11:07:07 AM
I deal in collectibles and always recommend that the seller gets other quotes. I'm pretty confident that I offer a fair quote, and if someone wants to give more, than so be it. Of course, I have no way of knowing how many purchases I may lose (not everyone really wants to sell, some want a free appraisal) but I've had several tell me they appreciate the advice, and come back to sell.
Also with collectibles, a lot of people feel that since they paid $50 for it 3 years ago, it must be worth $75 today. That may be true (It may also be worth $5 today too) but even if that was the case, unless I know I had a buyer at full retail, I could not offer the price that they paid for it.
posted on August 9, 2001 11:39:27 AM
I use the line "can't be buyer and seller" as well... and usually joke that if they want me to name my own price, I might give myself too good a deal! If they insist on me naming the price, then I very painstakingly look at all the items and make chicken scratches on a pad, roll my eyes to the ceiling like I am thinking really hard, and bring out the calculator and take some time adding up bogus figures (its just a process to make them sweat), then with a pained but sympathetic look on my face, I say "The very best I can do is "X" dollars", which is usually in the neighbourhood of 40 - 50% of what I expect to sell the items for. If they say no, or counter offer, I simply say "sorry, I can't do any better" and get up to leave.... 9 times out of 10 they will quickly reduce their counter offer, or accept your offer. If they say they want to check around, I even offer them the names of some competitors that I know are cheaper buyers than I am, or have horrible personalities or poor grooming... If there is something in the lot that I REALLY want, then I will pick the one item out and make them an offer on that alone and say something to the effect of "this is the only item I really want,and I can make you an offer of X dollars on this". The other trick is to put different amounts of money in different pockets and pull out one of the precounted wads and count it and say that all I have here is $100.00 or whatever the amount I have... When you show them the cash, they begin to squirm... If you have a pre-ordained idea of what you want to pay, you can ask to use the washroom and adjust the cash in your pockets, or count the bills with your fingers in your pocket while you stand talking to them.... it works!
posted on August 9, 2001 11:44:55 AM
The only other thing too, is that my technique only works on my area of expertise - when I know what the price should be... I have been burned many times buying stuff outside my realm of expertise! If those sort of things come up (toys, Disney, china, glassware) I really lowball, and tell them that I am lowballing them because I simply don't know the market well enough. Half the time they sell it to you anyways because you are so honest with them and they just want to get rid of the stuff... However, the exception to this rule are rich old ladies! They are the worst!!!! You go into the swanky part of town and drive up to their mansion, and in the hall, or down in the basement are these things that they want zillions of dollars for... Or once you give them an offer, the items suddenly become family heirlooms and they decide they want to keep it! Often I end up leaving empty handed!
[ edited by fonthill on Aug 9, 2001 04:02 PM ]
posted on August 9, 2001 05:40:47 PM
Thanks for all the suggestions. I think I will try to be more confident and use a mix of the ideas that some of you have given.
I have found that my lowest offer usually brings a faster response from them. So maybe I am worrying too much about insulting them. I have had quite a few people recommend me to others who are selling their items so I must be doing something right.
At times when they do break down first and say how much they want I almost step backwards with "sticker shock" as they are so unreasonable. Other times (not so often) it is lower than what I would have offered.
Mainly I get tired of the "games" back and forth but I know it is all part of wheeling and dealing. I just wish it was easier than it is though I guess it does all balance out in the end.
posted on August 9, 2001 07:07:54 PM
Oh, and one more thing.
Always try to have the cash in your pocket/pocketbook at the time of negotiations. Once they agree to a deal pull out the cash. If you have to go to the bank for the $$ afterward, it gives them time to possibly change their mind.
[ edited by loosecannon on Aug 17, 2001 08:56 AM ]
posted on August 9, 2001 07:37:25 PMIf it was easy, anyone could do it.
Good one, Microbes.
It already seems like most everyone is trying to buy and sell things. That's why I want to be better than them.
loosecannon, I always bring lots of cash or my checkbook. But now you guys have me thinking that maybe this is where I am missing out. When they bring items into my shop the money is in the till so they don't even see it until the deal is done and many times I just write a check. When I go to their house they usually always accept a business check. Maybe this is all too "sterile".
Hmmm.....maybe it is the "flash of cash" that makes the dealing go faster so I guess I should stuff my pockets with it and try it that way. Some of the clothes I wear to work don't even have pockets.
It would be easy to just open the till and start dealing it out while I am trying to buy though. Maybe I will try that approach next.
posted on August 9, 2001 07:53:50 PM
Whoops! I just thought that opening the till wouldn't be too bright of an idea either because some days there is more money in it than others. They would think I have a lot to spare and it may make it even more difficult to buy.
posted on August 9, 2001 08:01:51 PM
Nothing wrong with a check if the seller is comfortable with that. I sometimes write a check too. But cash is better. Most of the time I am dealing with people who don't know me personally and they never have a problem accepting cash. Some have a problem with a check.
For instance, the deal I was talking about above (8-9 9:14 AM). This was a $325.00 buy and I offered to pay with cash, check or credit card (he was equipped to take a credit card). He preferred cash and you guessed it, I had to run to the bank!
[ edited by loosecannon on Aug 17, 2001 08:57 AM ]
posted on August 9, 2001 10:13:22 PM
I seldom make "offers", and if I do it's a very low ball offer just to give them a wake up call. I "always" carry cash for making deals, and I make sure to let the seller know it's a cash deal. 90% of the time people that want "offers" are simply on a fishing expedition, and I don't have time for their B.S.
My advice, place a large sign above your till, "We Don't Make Offers - It's Your Stuff - You Price It". The word will soon get around, and your life will be easier.
Most people want "offers" because either they don't have a clue what it's worth, or they're hoping to get top dollar. If it's the former you'll usually get things going with a low ball offer. If it's the latter you're not going to buy it anyways.
posted on August 9, 2001 11:22:49 PM
First off, I thought the sign "We Don't Make Offers - It's Your Stuff - You Price It" sounded a bit rude.
But I also think it is a bit rude that people come in to play games with me and try to get free appraisals. I deal with lots of the "rich old ladies" that fonthill mentioned.
I have always been known as the "nice girl/nice lady" so maybe this will be a bit of a wake-up call for them. And me!
posted on August 10, 2001 12:46:55 AM
Used to have this problem years ago when I ran a card and comic shop.
Stranger off the street comes in with cards/comics. Says "I want to sell these, what will you give me?" I say, "what do you want?" They say "I have no idea. Make me an offer." "You want cash or trade?" "Cash"
Standard offer was 50% trade or 25% cash of book value. But as soon as a number leaves your mouth, suddenly the person gets insulted and says you are trying to rip them off and storms out. But if they name a price and you say "Sorry, but I can't spend that kind of money" they then become willing to negotiate. It was very rare to have someone come in who had a nice item and severely undervalued it. Half the time they brought in a pile of junk and wanted the moon.
The ones I hated were the folks that would get me to make an offer, and it turned out they just wanted a free appraisal. Or I would make an offer and then another customer would try to poach the card. They would get shown the way to the door.
I am very glad to be out of the B&M retail business. It took a lot of the joy out of my passion for collecting.......
For that reason, if a seller tries that tactic with me, and I believe they are not dealing honestly, I will make a very low offer.
