posted on August 17, 2001 06:51:52 AM
In another thread the question was posed, (not mine) "why don't you use paypal"......i figured why not start a thread/survey
now i can't really dictate what comments are made but this is a question of why you DO NOT use paypal, not why should you or why do you...the question is why not>.........
I do not use paypal for the following 5 reasons
1. the fees
2. the fees
3. the fees
4. the fees
5. see 1-4
i list anywhere from 25 to 100 items per week, depending on my real life job schedule. i do want to accept c. cards but do not want the fees.i am not set up as a "real" business, as related to taxes etc. and i feel a bus. acct at paypal will eventually lead to having to pay da man more than i already do in everypther aspect of my life......
so why don't you use paypal????
[ edited by skeetypete on Aug 17, 2001 07:02 AM ]
posted on August 17, 2001 07:32:19 AM
Same here. I'm also trying to figure out how to host my own pics or host them on ebay. (Nothing personal AW!)
I sell small scale, mostly as a hobby. I sell clothing. I clear anywhere from $1-$30 profit (before fees) usually in the $1-10 range. When the profit margin is that small, more fees really dig into it.
I must add, this is mostly for fun for me, not for a living.
posted on August 17, 2001 07:38:04 AM
I'm with both of you. With the AW feed, Ebay fees and the time it takes to do all the photos, descriptions,shopping,checking and double checking everything:
More Fees mean
No $$ for me or my time.
Hobby or not, I like my money and most of us work very very hard to earn that! Pay Pal has some nerve after people like us made them so "Name Brand"
posted on August 17, 2001 07:39:00 AM
1) I choose to deal with reputable companies only. A company that has gone through countless changes in policy, lied to its customers, and has poor customer service will never receive my business.
2) The funds in a Paypal account are not covered by any insurance. What happens if Paypal goes the way of countless other internet companies? My money would be flushed down the drain! Not a good option.
3) Fear of chargebacks. I've heard too many horror stories of this.
4) Having to ship everything with either insurance of delivery confirmation. I ship low-value merchandise $5 - $50. Why should my bidders have to pay extra for something they don't really need? Plus, it's more work for me when packing up the items! No thanks!
5) FEES! Again.... I don't want all my bidders to have to pay more just because some want to pay through Paypal. Give me a good old check or money order any day.
posted on August 17, 2001 08:09:56 AM
Great, another paypal bashing thread!!
i do want to accept c. cards but do not want the fees
Well, that's the rub. Kind of like saying I want to drive a car but I don't want to pay for it.
Accepting credit cards is a valuable business service that costs money to someone. Very few (if any) businesses are going to provide services to another business at no cost. And if you are selling 25-100 items a week on a regular basis, and presumably making a profit, you are a business in the eyes of the IRS.
It's not paypal's, or billpoint's, or anyone's fault that you don't want to pay fees, and they don't deserve any bashing because of it. Given the choice, I don't want to pay fees either.
Paypal is a business just like you and me, and they must make money, or else why do it?
posted on August 17, 2001 08:21:04 AM
I switched back to a personal account. Interestingly I have not noticed a great need/demand for PayPal specifically. Half or more of the people still write checks or money orders, and others are split between PayPal or Billpoint. Billpoint is probably the easiest to use and you are not getting a fee on your shipping amounts.
posted on August 17, 2001 08:21:15 AMFrom the paypal site: "Every account insured up to $100,000"
Actually, it says:
Every account insured against unauthorized transactions up to $100,000
and if PayPal went out of business tomorrow, I don't believe that insurance would cover any balance in your account at that time. When people mention that PayPal accounts are not insured, I think they are referring to PayPal's TOU, which states:
Not a Bank. You acknowledge that (i) the Service is not a banking service (ii) Service accounts are not insured by any government agency of any nation, (iii) the Service is not subject to banking regulations and (iv) PayPal will invest in liquid assets and that interest earned on those assets will be the property of PayPal.
** Transaction amount includes final price, shipping, handling, insurance, sales tax and any additional fees that sellers specifies.
Except for under $15 transactions (item price + shipping/etc) BillPoint fees are even worse than PayPal!
Yahoo PayDirect is the best IMO and C2it would be great but they have that stinking requirement to give them your SS# and Date of birth so when the site is hacked your life is certain to be ruined!
posted on August 17, 2001 09:05:48 AM
avaloncourt,
While eBay has made changes to some of their policies, they been intelligent enough to never blatently lie to their customers. None of eBay's changes even come close to the Paypal "free forever" fiasco. I recognize that things are not perfect with eBay, but, I feel that I can trust them from a business standpoint. Yes, the rules will change, BUT eBay at least gives considerable time for those changes to take place. Plus, they at least have some semblence of customer service.
capasto,
Mrpotatohead has hit it right on the head. If you think you're covered by actual insurance... think again! Give me a FDIC bank account anyday!
posted on August 17, 2001 09:18:19 AM3) Fear of chargebacks. I've heard too many horror stories of this.
Legitimate sellers who follow the rules have nothing to fear. They are protected from all fraudulent chargebacks.
What gives some concern is that a seller cannot send disappointing merchandise, refuse to accept a return, and then expect PayPal to cover the resulting chargeback. This is not a tactic of legitimate business.
posted on August 17, 2001 09:32:19 AM
Something else that gives some concern is that a buyer can use the item, then demand a refund when they're through with it, or substitute their own defective item for the good one sent by the seller, and PayPal will not give the seller an opportunity to defend themselves against this, as a legitimate merchant account would.
posted on August 17, 2001 09:37:19 AM
Legitimate businesses have thrived in the face of this threat for a long time, mrpotatoheadd. And a lot of other threats which simply do not materialize frequently enough to force any defense.
posted on August 17, 2001 09:54:46 AMLegitimate sellers who follow the rules have nothing to fear. They are protected from all fraudulent chargebacks.
This is absolutely not correct. If I ship an item EXACTLY as described, then the buyer charges it back saying it wasn't as described (buyer remorse, description stated it was sealed...I opened it...now it's not sealed, etc.) is a FRAUDULENT chargeback that I am not protected against.
Edited to add...I also am not Wal-mart. I am not required to give refunds for no reason at all without question.
posted on August 17, 2001 09:55:58 AM
Im not sure if I should post because I do use Paypal, when I first started Ebay I did not.
I honestly saw a rise in sales when I started using it.
Sure the fees stink, but they are providing a service and should be compensated. I have completed over 300+ auctions and would say around 1/2 pay with paypal (most using my buy it now feature and paying right away)
I think paypal is great for the impulse buyers that see something and want it NOW!!! So I think the fees are more than compensated by the higher bids with buy it now.
As a buyer I usually will not bid on something if paypal is not accepted- It really has to be something I really want BAD to send a check or MO(im lazy and like paying right away)I truly feel I am not alone in this.
With Paypal I have had 0 chargebacks and 0 problems
I have had 2 checks bounce on me and only 1 that payed me back- so the other one cost me $15.00 in bank fees and an unsold item.
I have had 0 problems with Money Orders
I have had 1 problem with a cashiers check(the guy put a stop pay on the damn thing)
So in my opinion there really is not a complete safe way to complete a transaction other then cash(which no one will do over the internet)
I just think in this day you must accept some form of electronic payment to stay competitive. I will actually pay more for something to get it over with, and I am sure that is why bids on my items go as high as they do sometimes.
posted on August 17, 2001 09:58:55 AM
I am sure PayPal has cleaned up it's act, since the days of PayPal Look-Alike sites grabbing your money...
Personally, I prefer having more control about how I sell...and how, if and what I will issue a refund on. I would not appreciate finding out that a customer with buyer's remorse, has filed a charge-back on my $1,000 sale!
I'll stick to M.O and Cashier's checks (in three years, never had a stop-payment) for High End items...and personal checks for standard sales...
******** Gosh Shosh! My "About Me" Page
posted on August 17, 2001 10:32:10 AMThis is absolutely not correct. If I ship an item EXACTLY as described, then the buyer charges it back saying it wasn't as described (buyer remorse, description stated it was sealed...I opened it...now it's not sealed, etc.) is a FRAUDULENT chargeback that I am not protected against.
If the item is returned in the condition it was received in, there is no fraud. If your business plan relies on you making money on the backs of people being stuck with purchases they want to return, no one's going to have much sympathy.
posted on August 17, 2001 10:34:26 AMPersonally, I prefer having more control about how I sell...and how, if and what I will issue a refund on.
You might find that buyers who have a right to return things are willing to pay a lot more for them in the first place. This doubly applies to high end items (items over $1000).
[ edited by roofguy on Aug 17, 2001 10:37 AM ]
posted on August 17, 2001 10:52:51 AM
In my B & M business, I would love to take all those credit and debit cards and not be charged a fee-that's going to happen when those monkeys fly out my butt. You take credit cards-you have fees. Plain and simple. I don't like it-not online or in my shop-but it's a cost of doing business.
And I have yet to understand why anyone thinks Billpoint is a better value than Paypal. They charge everytime they make a deposit-even if it's two or three times a week. A rose is a rose.......
posted on August 17, 2001 11:00:56 AMIf your business plan relies on you making money on the backs of people being stuck with purchases they want to return, no one's going to have much sympathy.
I haven't seen anybody on this thread posting that their "business plan" was anything at all as suggested above.
Further, I haven't seen anything posted on any other threads (here or elsewhere) that would indicate there were sellers concerned about chargebacks, because their "business plan" was anything at all as suggested above.
posted on August 17, 2001 11:13:58 AM
Refusing a return, certainly in any normal circumstance, directly implies that one intends to stick buyers with things buyer wishes to return.
It may be possible to ethically operate a B&M business with such a policy. Buyers can examine the merchandise and make a decision. Even then it seems marginal, particularly if crucial aspects of the merchandise cannot be determined during such an examination.
posted on August 17, 2001 11:19:23 AMRefusing a return, certainly in any normal circumstance, directly implies that one intends to stick buyers with things buyer wishes to return.
Not if the thing the buyer "returns" is a different one than was sent. Or one which was used and returned because it was no longer needed.
Ignoring these concepts doesn't make them any less real.
posted on August 17, 2001 11:30:09 AM
mrpotatoheadd I agree!
Roofguy I have read many of your replies and have yet to understand your position. People have valid problems and concerns. Paypal does not fully protect a seller even if they follow the seller protection policy. Also paypal is constantly changing their TOS. Paypal as a company isn't evil. They simply have many problems and open communication is at the top.
posted on August 17, 2001 11:41:24 AM
capotsato
your orange answer has nothing to do with my apple statement. If you sell you have to ship but if you sell you don't necessarily have to accept c. cards.i did just fine for the 2 1/2 plus years before paypal arrived on the scene.
wbbell
i did not bash paypal, i did not call them liars or cheats. i simply posted a question and my answer to it. Why do you find can't you just ddo the same, post an answer to the question. It is just a simple question, thats all
posted on August 17, 2001 11:46:08 AM
Using PayPal:
Crappy Seller sends shoddy, misdescribed merchandise to Honest John Buyer. PayPal charges Buyer's cc, credits Seller's account. Buyer is dissatisfied, returns merchandise to Seller and does a chargeback on his credit card. CC company charges PayPal, PayPal recovers this charge from Seller's account.
Buyer has his money.
PayPal has their money.
Seller has his item.
Honest John Seller sends as-described merchandise to Crappy Buyer. PayPal charges Buyer's cc, credits Seller's account. Buyer uses the merchandise for a couple of weeks, returns item to PayPal, and does a chargeback on his credit card. CC company charges PayPal, PayPal sends merchandise back to Seller and recovers the charge from Seller's account.
Buyer has his money.
PayPal has their money.
Seller's new item is now used.
posted on August 17, 2001 11:57:42 AM
Thanks M.P. I always can count on you for a succint answer...Nice seeing you...
******** Gosh Shosh! My "About Me" Page
I always can count on you for a succint answer...Nice seeing you...