posted on August 20, 2001 08:19:18 AM new
This is intended for the thiefs (u know who u are) that list a tiny pin or brooch etc on Ebay--then state $8.00 S/H/I !!
Gimme a break--they know----u know----and I know--that this same item can be sent USPS 1st Class & INSURED for less the $2.00 !!
Padded shipping fund Thiefs--thats all they are!
OH yea and I don't want to hear about the padded envelope your using thats covered w/ some whazoo coating in case of Rain!! Or the difficulties involved with inserting the 3 oz. item into an envelope--then how hard it is to transport envelope to Post Office--Stand in some huge long line etc. Really isn't all that part of doing business?
GET REAL!
posted on August 20, 2001 08:46:35 AM new
Email the seller with that quick contact form.
Tell them you are pretty sure they are practicing fee avoidance and that you are going to complain to safeharbor.
Then don't freakin' bid!!!
One seller had a used beater of a widget on sale for 1/3rd more than a new identical one. Shipping? Twice the price of anything reasonable.
I emailed. They didn't email back.
What's the worst they can do?
Block your bid?
Oh my!!!!!!
(wake up and spell!!!!)
[ edited by Capriole on Aug 20, 2001 09:22 AM ]
posted on August 20, 2001 11:12:58 AM new
We definitely need another shipping thread. You cannot be ripped off if it is stated right in the description. Your cost equals bid price + shipping. Doesn't really matter how it is split. At $8 I don't even think it would be considered fee avoidance although it does seem a little high, though not by much.
posted on August 20, 2001 11:36:03 AM new
Even if the seller listed S & H at $100 or more, it is not fee avoidance. What did you do, contact Miss Cleo and ask if the seller was practicing fee advoidance? Just because you know what it costs you to ship an items does not translate into what is costs another seller to ship.
I really hate it when other accuse other WITHOUT A SINGLE SHRED OF CONCRETE PROOF!!! These "Accusations Without Evidence" about shipping are realy getting to be a drag and really serve no purpose. I will defend other's right to charge whatever they feel like for shipping and handling. The simple and basic skills of reading and reading comprehension prevents me from paying what I would consider excessive shipping costs. Complaining does nothing.
Oh, yes. Calling them a thief in a public forum could be considered libelous. Just be glad AW forums do not allow you to use names and ID's, he would have had a very good case.
[ edited by mark090 on Aug 20, 2001 11:39 AM ]
posted on August 20, 2001 12:20:40 PM new
i always ship items in box-4 by 4 by 2 inches.
anyone who handles your envelope can feel the item through the enevelope and think it is a piece of hope diamond and it is always tempting for the thief.
so if the item which could be a small charm will cost more to ship in a box,with insurance of 1.10 plus 80 cents postage plus cost of the box 55 cents.
8 dollars does sound high,but if it is stated in item description,you have a choice of not bidding or if you bid above the asking price,ask them to lower the shipping cost.
the choice is yours.
posted on August 20, 2001 01:12:37 PM new
All some REAL WELL thought out answers I see
so typical as to what really goes on here @ these posting sites--Liable for calling a ghostseller a thief--YOUR A RIOT--Good luck on your BAR Exam!
posted on August 20, 2001 01:21:19 PM new
We used to have a saying on the usenet that whenever someone mentioned Nazis or Hitler, that meant the discussion was officially over - as you could miss any subsequent discussion with no loss of information.
Perhaps we need to modify this tenet - to say that whenever someone mentions Miss Cleo, that the discussion is over!
posted on August 20, 2001 05:10:30 PM new
Boy, I know I'm gonna get a lickin...
Yes, if the price is stated in the auction, you have the choice not to bid and thus it isn't really a ripoff. But it damned well IS fee avoidance, and you'll lose plenty of customers because of it.
I buy, and I sell, often in the same categories. I know what it costs to ship a particular widget, any which way you can name, and I know inflated shipping charges when I see them.
If somebody is charging $8.00 to mail a brooch which almost certainly weighs less than two ounces, that's blatant. Even if it was shipped via registered mail in a box and a padded envelope (or double-boxed in some way), that's too much. I suspect it's also too much for shipping virtually anywhere in the world via whatever they are calling "small packet airmail" these days. Are they sending it via Express Mail (which is about the only service to approximate that cost)? I seriously doubt it.
Mostly, the serious ripoff artists don't give the actual shipping fee in their listing, hoping that you'll bid and find out to your dismay that it's way overpriced. Yes, I know you should write to ask if you don't see it posted, but that should not be necessary! I don't make my buyers write me for such elementary information, and IMO most sellers should not have to do that. At the very least, for heavy items, you can put your own zip code in there, and the approximate shipping weight, plus any handling charge, and buyers can then estimate for themselves what it will cost.
Even if the total I will spend for the item is reasonable, I will almost never buy from a seller who inflates shipping costs exhorbitantly, because I don't want to support that kind of thing. Furthermore, somebody who knowingly does this is probably not averse to ripping me off in other ways as well, and I really don't want to find out what they are.
Sorry for the rant, but this is a MAJOR annoyance for me, though it's obvious that many people disagree.
posted on August 20, 2001 09:24:58 PM new
Welll, it looks REAL close to fee avoidance but I'm going to address "I know what it should ship for" issue.
Sorry, but you DON'T KNOW what it should ship for. I have a competitor who sells the same thing I do for around the same price. My shipping is $1.00 for this item. His is $4.60.
Is he ripping people off?
Nope.
I ship mine in a bubble envelope w/o insurance. He ships his by insured priority.
Now, personally, I think shipping a 1oz item via priority is overkill but if his customers want to pay that price, then they must be satisfied.
(BTW, want to guess who's auctions get more bids?)
posted on August 20, 2001 09:42:02 PM new
All of which I sell fits into a bubble envelope for anything from $.80 - 1.03. I charge $1.50 S/H 1st class. I put the item into a box and wrap with bubble wrap and insert in bubble envelope. I don't offer insurance unless they ask for it because I have had one lost item in 3 years and if the USPS loses one I will pay the item in the envelope. There is to much hassel with insurance. I don't sell high end items so therefore I do charge a little for my packing. I never use used packaging. Envelopes are new...
posted on August 20, 2001 10:38:03 PM new
"Sorry, but you DON'T KNOW what it should ship for. I have a competitor who sells the same thing I do for around the same price. My shipping is $1.00 for this item. His is $4.60. "
Well, we both know what a particular item should ship for, if we know what it weighs and where it's going. That's what I meant. You can choose to send it for $1.00, or you can send it for $4.60, but $8.00 is pure larceny.
IMO sending a 2-ounce item via Priority Mail just because you get free packaging materials is a ripoff. Can you do it? Sure. Should you do it? Not unless there are some pretty extraordinary circumstances. OTOH, if you are sending out a half-ounce diamond ring worth $10,000, your shipping might cost $15 or more, for registered mail and other special packing and services.
I get many appreciative comments in my feedback about my reasonable shipping AND my excellent packing. I feel pretty certain that I do get more bids because people think they are getting a good deal...both on the product and the shipping.
posted on August 20, 2001 11:15:47 PM new
Eight dollars for a broach is a little steep. I too am a seller and I have seen things cost anywhere from two dollars to over six dollars to ship. I have on two occasions been a buyer. My first purchase was reasonable but on my second I bought a watch. Shipping was seven dollars, which I thought was a little high but I was still very new to buying, (This was before I started selling) I get the item and It was in a watch box inside of a bubble envelope. When I checked out the post mark it said it had been mailed five days prior and get this it only cost .78 to mail!!!! One would think if I paid seven dollars for shipping the least this seller could do was pack it in a real box instead of a bubble envelope and mail it priority. It still would have only cost about $3.50. If I think the shipping is too high I just choose not to bid. And once a person is experienced at selling they beging to get a feel for what it is going to cost to ship something. I assume when I see shipping costs that it is mailed USPS first class. If they are shipping priority or rush or UPS or whatever is the cause of the inflated shipping price then I think they should say that in the TOS.
[ edited by crissymays on Aug 20, 2001 11:17 PM ]
posted on August 20, 2001 11:47:21 PM new
I agree. Jewelry Sellers GET REAL.
You lay about 100 pieces all out pretty in the pictures. (u know who u are) Then I buy it and it arrives today all hucked together in a tangled mess in the bottom of a big plastic grocery bag.
Some of the stones have fallen out into the bottom of the bag. It will take ages to sort out. What were you thinking?????
posted on August 21, 2001 09:38:38 AM new
I buy jewelry and I sell jewelry. I buy more than I sell, I sell to fund what I buy. Works for me....I only offer USPS Priority/Insured the cost for the price range I sell is $6.50. I add DC (at no cost to the buyer) because most of my buyers want to use PayPal and I need proof I sent it. I don't trust the "blue insurance" sticker because it rarely gets scanned (from personal expierience). I have problems with DC getting scanned also, but at least PP accepts that as proof it's been mailed! I don't ship in bubble envelopes and I don't appreciate getting my items in them either. The only damaged items I have recieved have been in bubble mailers! I email the seller ahead of time and ask how the item will be shipped and ask them, if at all possible, can I have it sent Priority/Insured and in a box. I have never had one say no. I get it my way and I pay for the priviledge. I am happy......
If the shipping you will pay (ask ahead of time if necessary) added to your maximum bid makes the item no longer a good deal, just don't bid.....If the shipping added to the maximum bid is still a good deal, why complain??????
My complaint is against the buyer who expects to get a $500 widget for $50 and then gripes about the shipping....talk about getting real! All I can say to those type buyers is: Go to Walmart!
edited to get every bit of my 2cents worth...
[ edited by sulyn1950 on Aug 21, 2001 09:43 AM ]
posted on August 21, 2001 09:45:10 AM new
This is a no-brainer! I don't like the shipping charges, I don't bid! Same thing with those that say see shipping fees below and then they don't put any shipping fees in their ad.
posted on August 21, 2001 10:46:36 AM new
Some people list the cost as "postage, insurance, and handling," and many do not. There are probably a dozen or more ways to state shipping costs.
A "handling charge" of $6.00 or so to mail a 2-ounce brooch is ridiculous. I may not know what this person's handling charge is, but if that's an approximation of it, he or she is way out of the ballpark.
Again, you shouldn't bid if you don't like the terms. And you should email the seller if they are not stated in the auction listing. But why on earth don't sellers do this automatically? Many do, but I'd bet that most don't. Either they don't have a scale (essential equipment), or they forgot (this happens to me occasionally), or they don't want you to know up front.
It seems to me that a good seller wants to make the buying process as easy and hassle-free for the buyer as possible. Expecting that a potential purchaser should email for such obvious information as shipping costs automatically lowers the pool of buyers, as many here have attested. They simply won't write for the info, and they won't bid (and I'm among 'em, usually).
Sellers who are attempting to make their profit off the shipping/handling costs doesn't usually want it to be very obvious, so they frequently do not put the exact amount in their listings.
posted on August 21, 2001 12:22:19 PM new
Who can say what is "fair" for handling. How do you define handling?
If I pay a guy $10 per hour to package and ship, etc. That could add up to quite a bit of handling. If I do it myself it could be less. But my time is not free either.
Regardless of OPINION. If the seller states it up front, there is no discussion. That is THEIR shipping/handling fee.
The case given in this discussion was S/H/I.
But even if a seller says SHIPPING, then that doesn't mean "postage only". That would be an invalid assumption for the buyer to make. Shipping = the cost of shipping the item to you and CAN include insurance, handling, packaging, AND postage.
posted on August 21, 2001 12:56:29 PM newBut my time is not free either.
Trust me on this one: your customer doesn't think his time is free either.
So when they have paid their money, they hate to see the "shipping" not go into "handling." (typo)
Painful but true.
BTW, I know this is the evolution vs. creationism type of topic that will never be resolved. As long as folks bid without asking about shipping or bid accepting terrible shipping terms, the "padding" will continue.
What is sad to see is all the defense of this kind of rippage. I don't care if you buy a Grande latte, take the scenic route or buy super premium gas on your way to the PO, if you justify it by padding your shipping, and call it handling, it's inflated and not fair.
If you roll that extra cost into packaging and DC/Insurance. Tell the customer. You don't need to give them a play by play, but use it as a selling point.
I know a lot of folks disagree with me.
Well, what else is new, eh?
posted on August 21, 2001 01:13:03 PM new
He could very well be undercharging as well. Perhaps he has a personal carrier service and hand delivers all his packages. Not likely, but you don't know. If you can assume what his charges cover than I can assume as well.
posted on August 21, 2001 01:14:54 PM new
First off, creation has already defeated evolution handily. It's dead to those who think.
Secondly, we defend handling charges precisely because they are NOT "rippage". They are valid charges and if stated up front, then the buyer is aware and obligated. End of discussion.
posted on August 21, 2001 01:23:36 PM newFirst off, creation has already defeated evolution handily. It's dead to those who think.
Bravo.
"We defend" is quite apt, because it is a defensive posture and not a realistic posture. Sorry, it may be "end of discussion" for you, but I think as long as people get burned on shipping, they are going to march away from ebay.
It's not all downturned economy and oversaturated market. My widgets are finite animals in this universe and my customers know it. So in my world view I could pad shipping to my hearts content, but I don't, and I don't agree it's a correct practice. Legal or not, it's still a rip.
I guess we are on the "agee to disagree" phase of the discussion.
posted on August 21, 2001 02:49:11 PM new
Just tell the seller "thanks, but I don't need the package shipped over night. Regular shipping will be fine."
[ edited by mark090 on Aug 20, 2001 11:39 AM ]
