posted on August 31, 2001 12:16:29 PM
I was surfing some auctions today and came across a cute little halloween shirt I would like to get for my infant daughter, Shipping and Handling came to $5.50 for a freakin shirt I would normally charge $2.00 shipping for this sort of item.
So I emailed her and asked if it was priority mail with insurance(that I could live with- sorta) She responded that was for first class delivery only. WHAT??? So I just emailed her back said Thank You, but no thanks I find $5.50 to be quite excessive for a shirt. Then I looked at her other auctions and she has about 5 auctions with bids out of 39, most going off on Sunday.
Why do people constantly charge so much for handling??? This isnt glass, large, or anything that couldnt fit in a 1st class $.30 cent envelope? Does she not realize she is loosing way more $$$$ by people not wanting to pay such a high shipping rate. I would have bid on at least 3 of her auctions had shipping been reasonable.
Does anyone agree with me here??? Or am I just a cheapo...I just hate excessive handling fees.
Jen
I just wanted to edit that she just emailed me back the follpwing statement:
Dear Jennifer,
I notice you also sell on Ebay, as a seller in the Ebay community you must realize the cost of buisness like the follwing
1 Listing fee
2 Final Value fee
3 Paypal fee
4 envelope fee
5 gas to the post office fee
6 and for me- a babysitting fee so I do not have to take my children out
I simply must figure all of that in to my handling charge or I would not make any profit at all.
Thank You for viewing,
XXXX
(I was going to respond to this but feel I have already wasted to much time over a stupid shirt-thanks for listening to me vent)
[ edited by tjbrocean on Aug 31, 2001 12:32 PM ]
posted on August 31, 2001 12:31:35 PM
I take the price I'm willing to pay, add the postage that is stated (or email if it's not) andif the price is still good or better than I can find locally (usually it can't be found locally) then I bid and don't sweat it. The bottom line (IMHO) is the bottom line (tax, title and license included).
I really don't care where or how the seller makes his/her money as long as I can find something I want that can't be found anywhere in my isolated area and it is still affordable for me!!!! Who am I to tell them how to price their items and handle their shipping????? They're doing the work not me!
That's why I loooove eBay and all those great eBay sellers with all that realllly neat stuff!!!!!!
I agree with you and I ususally do that but I could find another on Ebay just as nice which is why I didnt bid. Clothing has a lot of competition on Ebay(especially childrens)
My only point is - that I am not the only one who would think that is a high handling fee(her feedback reflects some of this) and in the end she would profit more my selling more items and lowering her handling fee then trying to recover costs by charging so high to ship something.
posted on August 31, 2001 12:42:22 PM
I, too, am a cheapo. But I recently bid and won some software with shipping of $20 - and it could be mailed media for, oh, $5 or less.
But, the winning bid was $11, and the item normally sells for $50 plus shipping, so I cheerfully paypaled them $31.
The only thing I find objectionable is my sneaky suspicion that some of these sellers are trying to take advantage of buyers who don't read the "fine print" of S&H costs. But in general, as long as it is stated, I have no objection whether they choose to make their money via bid or shipping.
Of course, obvious attempts to circumvent ebay fees annoy me, since ultimately the other sellers have to make up the difference, but that doesn't apply here.
posted on August 31, 2001 12:55:15 PM
captainkirk, again I agree with you. I too have paid outrageous shipping fees to get something I really want or if I realize even with the handling fee it is still cheaper than the store, but clothing is generally different...There are very few one of a kinds and I could simply run down to my local department store and get the same type of shirt for $9.99.
I just feel it is common sense if you do not have a so called unique item then you should try and be competitive with your shipping somewhat.
If I had her auctions I would guareentee I would have a bid on just about everything- my sell through rate is around 90% hers looks to be 30%...seems like a no brainer
Jen
posted on August 31, 2001 01:00:23 PM
This wasn't a unique item, so I'm not sure if that really matters here.
Your sell-through rate may be higher, but she might make more $ per item...so if she isn't in a hurry for the cash, she might have a better strategy. It all depends.
As far as being competitive, yes, you have to be...in general. However, given the wide variety of sellers, items, terms, initial bids, shipping policies and costs, its sometimes hard to look at two sellers and say that "you aren't competitive because your shipping is higher". Maybe they have better pictures, better merchandise, better listings, lower starting bid, etc. In a perfect market, if EVERY OTHER seller has shipping of $2 and yours is $5, and everything else is the same, then yes, the "oddball seller" would probably be doomed. But given the "mass chaos" that ebay represents, it isn't clear how easily it is to spot the "non competitive" people.
In fact, I tend to think this might not be a bad strategy...go for the lower bids to hook people and hope they don't notice/care about the shipping. Psychologically, it might make a lot of sense...much as I wish it wouldn't.
posted on August 31, 2001 01:07:55 PM
I wasn't trying to be tacky, but I have noticed that many buyers, who also sell, seem to think (at least that's how it appears) everyone should do it like they do. You will find certain business practices that will be applied by all business people but there are probably as many ways of "doing" things as there are people "doing" them! Even in the B&M world.
Yes, I think sellers may injury their business by charging a handling fee. I don't think it's necessarily fair but, from these boards at least, I can see lots of people don't believe in spliting out the handling fees and listing them along with the shipping.
Would it really matter if it was put in the start price???? Would it make it cost any less in the end???? A $ is a $ is a $. I can buy it at $1 and have $2 added to the shipping fee of $2.00 ($4 S/H) or I can buy it for $3 and pay $2 for shipping, but bottom line I'm paying $5any way I look at!
Maybe some folks prefer not to know how much "handling" they are paying for???
posted on August 31, 2001 01:08:24 PM
Here we go again...
If YOU think the shipping/handling is outrageous, then DON'T BID. Period. End of discussion.
Quit coming here and griping about what other sellers are doing. $5.50 was not outrageous as you like to say for shipping and handling. It's her cost of doing business. If this wasn't an auction, those things would be rolled into the price up front and you'd never know.
But since it IS an auction and shipping and handling are all POST-SALE expenses, they rightly get recovered in the post sale shipping and handling fees.
Just because YOU would do it differently does not mean that every seller can. If she was charging $100 for S&H you might have a beef. But a $1 or so higher than other people is not a big deal. And if it is a big deal TO YOU, then move on and buy it elsewhere.
Fortunately most buyers aren't this overly concerned with valid shipping and handling fees.
posted on August 31, 2001 01:18:21 PM
I don't blame you for asking, though. If it is an item that I really want, but the shipping seems out of whack compared to similar auctions, I generally will e-mail the seller and inquire. Sometimes they politely say that's the way it is, sometimes they thank me for catching their mistake or recalculate and give me another figure, and sometimes they ignore me.
I just picked up a choice piece for my collection for a song because other bidders may have been turned off by a shipping quote in the auction that was twice what the seller intended. I sent her a "what's up?" e-mail and sure enough, she had made an error. I don't know why she didn't correct it...maybe because it had a bid already and she didn't know how to add to the description. Anyway, she e-mailed me that if I won, the shipping would be X instead of Y---half the original quote. It was an easy snipe because no one else was in the running.
You might be right..I haven't gotten it yet, I'll just have to see. Maybe its zooming to me via priority mail, with insurance, DC, and return receipt requested. Ummm...right.
I'll turn in the seller as soon as I receive the item. I'm an idealist, but a practical one. If that's possible to be.
I did move on and chose not to bid, and I am really not griping as much as I am trying to say she would make so much MORE money by being competitive then by trying to recoup all of these costs in charging a handling fee.
She barely has bids on her current items and out of 122 feedbacks has 3 negatives for her excessive shipping charges and 8 neutrals for the same.
I am just trying to point out I would prefer to make my cash with the bids and eat these fees as "cost of buisness"(which is a write off I might add) If you report to the IRS.
and yes I agree $5.50 is not bad for priority mail but 1st class mail would cost about .90 cents at most to mail this so ahe is making a killing, but she really isnt because people just are not bidding.
Can you look at her completed items and confirm that she is making less money per item than others? That's really the true test..but even that could be "tainted" if her listings are bad, photos are blurry, etc.
If you don't have many repeat sales, a high S&H might not be a bad strategy. Yes, you get mediocre/bad feedback from the people who buy from you, but next week, there will be more folks to sell to...
posted on August 31, 2001 01:42:53 PM
Wildboy, your statement is incorrect.
Shipping is NEVER based on the cost of the item sold. Sorry. It's based on what it costs to ship the item (including all other costs including postage fees).
Shipping is by weight and size, not price paid.
-------------------
Jen --
I understand what you're saying, and it makes some sense. I just get tired of other railing against shipping/handling charges and accusing those sellers on fee avoidance.
Given that software typically is pretty rugged and doesn't require any special handling/packaging/materials, and can be shipped cheap media mail, the "$20 shipping" could well be an example of fee avoidance.
As evidence, not only is it well above the norm for other sellers of software, its also well above the expected cost of shipping (unless, as I said, it actually arrives via some sort of expensive shipping).
Wildboy may not have stated it well, but he could still be correct.
posted on August 31, 2001 01:53:38 PM
captainkirk,
Ok out of 138 completed auctions since July 28 she has had 43 end with bids- I checked 10 of them and they all but 2 ended with 1 bid, so she basically just got her starting price.
Looking at it though if you are getting about 3.00 back in shipping costs per auction x 43 that comes to $129.00, I dont know maybe I do do it wrong.
peiklk- thank you, I am really not trying to say fee avoidence as much as trying to figure out is it better to add a handling fee??? Do you get complaints??? Do you make more that way??? By me charging almost exact shipping in my auctions, am I dumb when I could recoup some fees??? I dont know...I have to admit when I know I have something hot I do up the shipping a smidge, but if it is just a common shirt I would rather get the bids and get rid of the item
Jen
Interesting data. Can you tell how her starting bid relates to typical final bid amounts for these kind of items?
I wonder if their strategy is to "go fishing"...with a starting bid about the expected final bid, and a high S&H cost, so she makes about the typical amount of profit on the final bid, but makes extra $ on the shipping? She doesn't "catch" a bidder most of the time, but when she does, its a good deal?
That strategy does provide low sell-through and slow cash flow, but if you are selling a limited amount of items and can afford to wait, might not be a bad strategy.
Of course, I really don't like high S&H in principle, so I feel kinda bad arguing on behalf of it.
that's it for me today, will have to check back later..
[ edited by captainkirk on Aug 31, 2001 02:03 PM ]
posted on August 31, 2001 02:06:24 PM
thats sort of hard to do based on clothing is size color brand new used, ect... but she did sell a name brand romper for $8.00 and I had a similiar one(different size) go for 12.49($1.75 shipping) about a month ago and another go for $15.99 buy it now(with free shipping)
Jen
I ship a lot of software and charge either $5 or $6 S&H which includes Priority Mail in most cases. This is for US addresses obviously. So no, I wouldn't pay $20 S&H -- so I'd walk away from that auction and not bother the seller with it.
Most of my stuff is games and people want them ASAP -- so PM is not a problem.
As for Media Mail, most boxed games DO have some form of advertising in the box -- so TECHNICALLY they wouldn't qualify for media mail either.
I always try to ship PM when I can. It's so much easier (for me).
posted on August 31, 2001 02:11:53 PM
"Would it really matter if it was put in the start price???? Would it make it cost any less in the end???? "
Yes it would matter because the atart price ismeaningless - it is the END price that counts, and just because you start higher does not mean you'll end higher by the same amount. Shipping and handling costs should be put in the s/h charge if you really want to recoup it, and it should be stated up front.
re "fee avoidance" and the $20 s/h on the CD -- so what, that's ebay's problem. And they aren't "losing" money on this kind of fee avoidance, they already have their listing fee and it costs them no more to list a $2 auction than a $200 auction. FVFs only go to ebay's bottomline, and do you think Meg, with her ignorant pronunciamentos, really earns what she is paid? LOL
posted on August 31, 2001 04:33:06 PM
I sell alot of T-Shirts and sweatshirts at Christmas,thats the only time I list them.While I believe most people would rather have First Class shipping to save money,I ship shirts Priority for the simple reason I have to many shirts take forever to get there and also to many get lost. Most people don't mind paying the $3.50 Priority.Some people want cheap & fast and you can't have both.
posted on August 31, 2001 09:55:33 PM
CaptainKirk...
I did read the entire thread, but was responding to Wildboy's comments which were not linked to your comment directly (by name or by quote). So I was logically commenting to it as it stood on its own.
So, as it is, wildboy was still incorrect in his comments as were you.
posted on September 1, 2001 04:59:10 AM
"I did read the entire thread, but was responding to Wildboy's comments which were not linked to your comment directly (by name or by quote). So I was logically commenting to it as it stood on its own.
"
Hmmm...lets see..you *claim* to have read the whole thread..where I comment about someone selling SOFTWARE for "$11 bid and $20 shipping"..and a few posts later wildboy comments about "$11 bid and $20 shipping"...and YOUR thought is that these two posts are "not linked directly" and you *claim* that it isn't clear we are talking about SOFTWARE?
LOLOLOL! I mean, its not like this is some sort of multi-page thread with hundreds of posts covering a multitude of subjects. Our posts were maybe 4 apart...and discussed an example with EXACTLY THE SAME details. It is QUITE OBVIOUS they were linked...you just didn't make the connection like everyone else did, I guess. Or chose to ignore the obvious connection in an attempt to discredit the post. Either way, you goofed.
Or are you suggesting that AW implement the "peiklk rule"..."From now all, all posts MUST REFERENCE the exact post (or posts) that they are commenting on, regardless of how small the thread or how obvious the connection". Surely not, I hope?
So, yes, thank *you* for playing...and making an obvious mistake here
posted on September 1, 2001 05:30:29 AM
captainkirk, captainkirk, captainkirk...
Sorry if your posts are NOT memorable.
I, like most people, do not RE-READ the entire thread everytime there is a new message.
A common courtesy is to answer in complete sentences here or at least indicate the name of the person you're replying to. That's a signal to thinking people to check back to what the original person said.
Since wildboy did not, and your original message was not that memorable, the obvious conclusion was that he was stating something from his own experience (as most do) and not indicating something you said.
Perhaps you should take a course in communications before jumping to wrong conclusions? Ok? Thanks!
posted on September 1, 2001 07:16:26 AM
i recently have sold a small item to ab ebay bookseller who is also active on this board.
as the shipping charge which was stated in item description exceeds the actuall shipping plus what she figured the rest of my shipping related expenses should be,she asked me to slip 2 dollars back to her.
instead i offered a 5.00 shipping allowance on future purchase(i sell a very broad range of items).
she refused and went thru my feedback of over 3000 and emailed every neutral and negative buyers plus all current bidders who bid on items which have yet to close.
i turned over her email to me,her email to some of my customers and my email to her to ebay and asked them to review the case.
i received 3 canned responses from eaby and basically they said they have taken action and would not disclose what action and then asked me to rate their service??
she is still selling on ebay and posting on this board,so i assume ebay has not done much.
my advice is -if you read the item description and it disclosed how much is shipping,this is what you expect to pay,there is no need to conduct a big survey as to why some dealers charge more or charge less,if you think shipping is too high,then move on to the next item or next seller.
mail order companies set their shipping and handling according to weight or dollar amount,they usually charge enough to cover postage,packing and customer service related to inquires and returns,also dont forget all that toll free calls are not really free.
nothing is free in life!!
posted on September 1, 2001 07:21:16 AM
Since that person is here to defend themselves, you are free to let others know who this person is, so we can avoid her as well.
posted on September 1, 2001 07:57:05 AM
she sells used books and used postcards from florida,she used to have a land shop but closed it last year.i cannot give her email address here/
she used different user id to buy small items and have more than one internet service providers.
yes,you want to avoid her ,anyone who would go thru a big feedback file and email 100 users should be avoided.
