tiggressoflove
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posted on September 3, 2001 05:57:41 AM
My auction partner created a wholesale directory ebook and set it up as a dutch auction on ebay. Since then the auction has received bids, but they were all retracted because this other seller who sells a similar ebook e-mails the bidders threatening them. He's now threatening to sue. He is also threatening to contact paypal, saying I'm using them to commit fraud, and is writing ebay constantly trying to get me kicked off. What can be done about this nut?? My auction partner is away for the weekend, so she don't even know what's going on.
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hwahwahwahwa
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posted on September 3, 2001 06:09:49 AM
i recntly have a case where a bidder went thru my feedback file of over 3000 and emailed every userid who left me negative and neutral feedbacks plus high bidders of ongoing auctions .
i turned the case over to ebay -this is a case of interference,interuption etc of ebay operations.
you should do the same,turn it over to ebay for investigation
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soothsayer
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posted on September 3, 2001 07:05:17 AM
ebay will not do squat without email headers and the like...they need proof not just accusations..........i suggest offering a free item to those who can send you copies of any emails, with headers, where the accusations are made etc.........
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tiggressoflove
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posted on September 3, 2001 08:14:22 AM
I can't forward this guy's threats because I use netscape webmail and it won't let you show headers or forward as inline text. His isp sent me an e-mail telling me it will only investigate if I forward the e-mail as inline text and not attachment and if it has headers shown on it. Netscape has no way to change it to headers and inline text from what I have found.
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kiara
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posted on September 3, 2001 08:18:48 AM
I found the auctions in question and one looks almost like the other one. Both sellers have almost the same auction description yet they are in different states.
I guess the original seller does have a right to be upset?
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tiggressoflove
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posted on September 3, 2001 08:25:09 AM
It may be so, but threatening me like this wasn't right. I can't reach her and don't know what to do about it. I think she did copy someone's description because she didn't want to type it. She's not coming back until Wednesday. Should I just cancel it so he'll leave me alone?? I don't know what my partner would want me to do.
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debbielennon
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posted on September 3, 2001 08:25:20 AM
May I make a friendly suggestion? Sign up for a free Hotmail account for your eBay correspondence and be sure to change your email with eBay. Hotmail allows you to forward with headers. This is the second time I have seen you post where you were hampered in your efforts to run your business by your email system. (If you do it quickly enough, you could still ask the bidders that retracted to forward the info again.)
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tiggressoflove
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posted on September 3, 2001 08:32:27 AM
ty debbie, doing that now
Weird thing is...this dude knows my partner's name. Did ebay give out that info??
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kiara
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posted on September 3, 2001 08:54:11 AM
tiggressoflove
I remember you from problems you had months ago. Your auction partner is running the auction under your seller ID. So you will be responsible for any problems or lawsuits that arise I would think?
If you believe that your auction partner is wrong, cancel the auctions and save yourself some grief.
[ edited by kiara on Sep 3, 2001 08:55 AM ]
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ptimko
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posted on September 3, 2001 09:05:25 AM
I used to use netscape mail, if you need to forward the header information you can always cut and paste the entire email. Just open up a second browser window, open the letter you need to forward, click on the little triangle in the bottom right hand corner of the "subject" part of the email, that should reveal the header information. You can then cut and paste the message. Of course all of the lines will be messed up without proper spacing, but you can always fix that by editing after you've pasted (and if you feel like it)...
It's a rather slow and painful process, but it can be done. The last time I had to forward header information, the people I had to send it to found the information they were looking for after I did this...
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tiggressoflove
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posted on September 3, 2001 09:14:10 AM
it's her id. I don't have a credit card so ebay won't let me sell so she lets me list stuff on her id. I just changed the email and ebay automatically changed the id to my new email address. didn't know it would do that. If ebay thought it was copyright problems they would've canceled the auction by now right?? No word from ebay, but this guy says he wrote them.
ptimko,
I can't even see any headers or a way to display headers. I didn't like the netscape account anyway. Got lot to explain to her when she gets back lol.
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hwahwahwahwa
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posted on September 3, 2001 10:10:50 AM
sound like there is something wrong with your wholedale directory e book?
is it compiled by your partner?is it identcial to the one your competitor is selling?whose book is it, by the way?
if every one has a copy of wholesale directory and they all order the same stuff,and list them on ebay,the market will just be flooded.
one time wholesale central gave me the number of a supplier,when i called the phone number for some reason i managed to tap into all his incoming recorded messages other retailers have left for him-where are the goods i ordered,please ship,customers getting impatient,where is my order this,my order that.
it turned out the supplier has disappeared with the money and wholesale central did not even know/
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americanicons
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posted on September 3, 2001 11:36:43 AM
Tigress, I think you need a new partner.
If she was too lazy to write a description,
it is also possible she was too lazy to
compile her own directory. You do a have
a copyright problem here--both for the use
of another seller's descriptive copy &
possibly their creative work. I would
suggest you end the auction immediately.
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fountainhouse
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posted on September 3, 2001 03:48:30 PM
tigressoflove, if it turns out your partner's book is legit (and not plagiarized), I'd tell him/her to quickly sign up for VeRO. Your competitor may already be in the process of doing so and, should he beat you to the punch, will no doubt nuke all your partner's auctions, current and future.
If, OTOH, he's selling a copy of the competitor's book, then he deserves it.
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tiggressoflove
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posted on September 5, 2001 03:14:17 PM
This guy made a new ebay name just to bid and win an auction of mine to pull contact info and is now threatening us. He's saying he'll keep bidding up everything and make sure my (our) feedback is ruined. He hasn't started writing the new hotmail addy, so still not being able to get the headers like I need to so can't even write ebay. I've been getting hang-up calls now since late last night soon after he pulled the contact info.
My dad is looking into whether or not it's legal to sell. I'm working on own words for ebay discription.
How do you VERO something??
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kiara
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posted on September 5, 2001 03:36:01 PM
I don't understand this at all. Your partner copied some other seller's directory that he compiled and was selling and now you want the rights to it?
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smw
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posted on September 5, 2001 03:39:18 PM
I would call the telephone company and tell them that I received a threatening and harassing telephone call and since then have been experiencing "hang ups". If this person is calling long distance it will be very easy for the phone company to document what is going on. Plus if the phone company can document what is going on this will also help with any communication with eBay in proving your case.
If the information was copied or not, this doesn't mean that the other person is entitled to harass or threaten anyone.
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REAMOND
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posted on September 5, 2001 03:45:00 PM
The directory may not even be copyrightable. "Plagerism" is not actionable, infringement on a copyright is. See the link below.
http://www.loc.gov/copyright/circs/circ1.html#wwp
Ebay may act on the threats to interfer with your auctions and FB.
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tiggressoflove
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posted on September 5, 2001 03:53:33 PM
To my understanding, she paid close to $30 for a list of wholesalers that she could've looked up herself on a search engine (very stupid I think) but it's not copywritable by him no more than a list of names and phone numbers would be. So in actuality she couldn't copyright it if she were to create her own. I think she should just forget the whole thing because it sounds like these wholesale directories are a ripoff in themselves. From talking to her (she's back now) she did the auction just to try and get back the $30 bucks she wasted. I told her she should chalk it up as a learning experience. I just asked about the VERO because of different reasons altogether because I don't really understand it.
My big problem right now is this guy is going through all my auctions and telling the customers that I am a fraud (the customers have no way of knowing there are several of us) and they've been writing saying they won't go through with their purchases now. Then this guy has created new names and bidding on the auction just to get contact info and calling hanging up and harassing us. I wish she had never bought the damn thing to begin with, but so far this guy has cost us over $100 in legit sales in just a week. Some of our customers stated that he was all professional and had his own website, etc and that they therefore wouldn't follow through with the auction. It isn't very professional to me to contact people making threats and stuff and bid on an auction just to be able to neg someone else.
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Eventer
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posted on September 5, 2001 04:46:07 PM
If you can get some of your bidders to forward those emails from him, along w/full headers to SafeHarbor, that will help your case.
If he pulled your contact info, then you got his as well. I think I'd consider giving his police department a call to discuss what can be done.
DOCUMENT, DOCUMENT, DOCUMENT EVERYTHING, no matter how minor you might think it is at the time. You may need all this evidence if it gets uglier than it already has.
You may want to consider at some point, getting an attorney involved.
Do you have call block, caller id? Definately get the phone company involved.
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tiggressoflove
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posted on September 5, 2001 05:16:14 PM
I have asked all the ones that contacted me to forward the e-mails to me, so far they have all refused.
I'll talk to the phone company tomorrow. I tried to check out the # off this fake id and it's a phony. I've sent that info to safeharbor since it's inaccurate information. Maybe with any luck that fake id will be booted off before it can neg me.
I have emails from the guy where he's saying he'd do all this stuff, but since he's been sending all that to the webmail account I can't get headers. I'm never going to do business from a webmail account again. 
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MrsSantaClaus
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posted on September 5, 2001 10:18:04 PM
If they are refusing to complete the transactions on the auctions that they have legally won, do the FVF route.
Just because someone has a website doesn't mean they are honest ... didn't the Alien people have their own website?
BECKY
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mikea
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posted on September 5, 2001 11:13:50 PM
Do I understand this? Your friend got ripped off so she decided to rip someone else off to get her money back? This sounds like a classic case of "live by the sword,die by the sword".Drug dealers and other folks who live outside of the law will go to extreams to protect their "turf".I would close the auctions,start a new I.D. and never try to be a scammer again.
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twinsoft
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posted on September 5, 2001 11:59:22 PM
Reselling information is not a copyright violation, but stealing their ad is.
Re: your problem, get a real email account and forward the emails you receive to SafeHarbor.
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tjbrocean
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posted on September 6, 2001 05:09:30 AM
Wow, sounds like a big mess...
I have a question though, you said your partner bought this info from him...Why dont you guys pull his contact info?? You have every right to if there was a previous transaction between the two of you. Then make sure his real ID has legit info. You might be able to suspend his real ID too.
Then I would end all current auctions and relist them as private auctions. Then he cant see who is bidding. If someone with zero feedback bids on an auction, pull the contact info and verify it. If it is bogus contact info cancel the bid and block them from bidding.
I would forward this guy a kiss as* letter apologizing and letting him know it will not happen again and please leave us alone....30 bucks is not worth ruining an entire buisness over.
I am not condoning what this guy is doing, but I cant say I blame him for being upset. If the tables were turned I am sure you guys would be furious too.
If worse comes to worse create a new ID and start from scratch.
Do you guys have any current Negatives- is your current feedback file worth protecting??
Jen
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tiggressoflove
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posted on September 6, 2001 05:30:46 AM
mikea,
so you're saying I'm a scammer?? I haven't scammed anyone. My partner didn't even scam anyone. The auction is over already, over days ago. This nutcase won't leave us alone. He's the one scamming people, claiming you can make money off this worthless stuff.
tjbrocean,
She bought it on yahoo auctions, or else she would do that. She didn't realize that he was even on ebay, he had never mentioned it in his yahoo ad.
Our feedback is up to 89 with this name, with only one negative. We have 4 other names, 2 with 1 fb, 1 with 18 fb, and 1 with 13 fb. We have auctions going with the last 2 and adding stuff to those ids instead of this current one. Other than copy his auction ad, she had the right to list it because it wasn't copyrightable in the first place, plus even if it was, she'd have the right to resell her copy. She's decided to not try and get her money back though and not buy anything like that again. The matter won't be on her conscience (or whatever that's termed in wicca).
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mrlatenite
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posted on September 6, 2001 07:08:26 AM
[message removed by request of moderator]
[ edited by mrlatenite on Sep 7, 2001 01:45 PM ]
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kiara
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posted on September 6, 2001 07:29:16 AM
tiggressoflove
If what you say is true, I agree that the other seller shouldn't be harrassing you and that he should have contacted ebay, signed up for VERO and requested that you cancel the auction.
But your partner did list 20 copies of this and it was an item that the other seller had previously been selling for awhile. So I understand his frustration.
To me it looks like your partner was hoping to get back more than $30.
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mikea
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posted on September 6, 2001 02:01:22 PM
Maybe I missed something here but it sounds to me like you bought a product,found out it was worthless,copied it and then used another sellers description to sell the copies.How is that not a scam?
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tiggressoflove
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posted on September 7, 2001 09:19:02 AM
My auction partner bought it, not I. I'm not mad at her because she's upset anyhow and we've been friends for long time. She's on welfare, makes $400-500 a month after ebay sells and $30 is a lot of money to her. She wasn't trying to scam anyone, was just trying to support herself and her kids. This guy advertised that she could make loads of money with this list he was selling and she bought it thinking she could become financially independent and take care of her kids. I did the same thing with a different wholesale list, and had she showed this ad to me I would've told her it was a scam. She was impressed by this guy's website and such. She was hoping at least 3 people would buy the item from her so she could break even. She's not going to relist it, so this guy has no business harassing us and harassing my legitimate customers. I did not list the auction, so I'm tired of being called a thief, liar, scammer, etc. But I don't blame my friend for all this because she was just trying to take care of herself and her children. I pity anyone who buys these wholesale lists from anyone thinking they'll make money. Goes right back to if it's too good to be true, it probably is.
We're listing stuff under our other ids now and getting legit bids and bids seem to be improving for some strange reason all around. She's been wanting to get a car so she can get a job and support herself. Around here people don't want to help out anyone, so no one would give her rides so she's not been able to keep a job for long. We discovered each other when we both were searching through the same dumpster for stuff and teamed up after that. She's not a hardened criminal, she was just scared because she saw she got ripped off and was worried for herself and her kids.
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