imabrit
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posted on September 4, 2001 02:40:48 PM
Over the past year I have watched the variety of items drop simple reason I can no longer compete with other sellers.
I sell in the antiques category and I cannot get the items for the price at which some sellers are currently offering them.
Case in point I have had a good run for the last few years with a collectable vellum item.I have been selling these on ebaY for 3 years with a good price and a good customer following.
There are not a lot of these items currently around 50 and all are different and spanning different times in history.
These items of the 18th century have consistantly been selling in the 25.00 to 35.00 range each.With a decent profit.
Of late this is no longer the case reason being other sellers are offering the same item with a start bid of 5.00 and with them ending in the 10.00 range.
Why on earth would you do that? competition is fine but why offer the item at 25% of what it normally sells for.
It seems like the seller fails to do the homework and see what these items realisically bring.
As this is not a highly collectable item the chance of getting enough buyers to bid the item up into the 25.00 to 35.00 range is most unlikely.
Yet you can consitantly get that if you price it in the range I have done for the past 3 years.
I see lots of other areas in which this is the case also.Its at a point where its not worth the effort searching out the items and taking the time to list it on ebaY.
Has anyone notices this in the areas they sell as well.
Adrian
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commentary
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posted on September 4, 2001 02:47:59 PM
When the professionals get on ebay - that is the kiss of death for that category. These guys usually do not have patience and will jump dump vast quantity on in a short period of time. Basically, killing the market. I think most of them are short of money and just want to unload.
I see it all the time and continually have to find different collectibles to sell. I wait till these dealers shoot their load and hope to re-enter the market in couple of years.
Of course, this means you have a vast stock as well as money to be able to sit these guys out. You also have to have tremendous faith in your own ability to judge the market.
The occasional hobbists is never a problem. They can only sell a couple before they are out.
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imabrit
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posted on September 4, 2001 02:51:02 PM
These are not large sellers and I think its a case of them finding a few of these items out there.Plus not realising there true value.
Only problem of late is as one goes away another turns up.
Plus they are closer to the source being in the UK.I am in the USA.
But there are only so many places you can get these from and there is no guarantee there will be anymore within a few weeks.
But I see this happening in lots of areas.
Adrian
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GreetingsfromUK
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posted on September 4, 2001 02:53:13 PM
Hi Adrian,
I guess I am one of your problems! I sell on eBay for fun and have traded with 24 countries. My lots start at $.50 or $1.00 with no reserve and I can afford to take the few hits I get. Sorry.
This is not my trading name.
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packer
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posted on September 4, 2001 02:55:59 PM
Hi Adrian,
I certainly have noticed a huge drop in prices in the categories I sell in.
What is really stressing is now they(collectables) are bringing more money at LIVE auctions then on the internet.
I've been threatening to buy up on the internet(eBay) and hold a live auction. I think I could do better at this point.
It would certainly save all the grief of packing and shipping.
I don't have the answers but after a slow summer I'm hoping for a good run this fall.
My fear is "so is everyone else" thus flooding the market.
*sigh*
packer
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neatstuff4u2
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posted on September 4, 2001 03:02:35 PM
we have this same problem with doll sellers
seems like they want to just get that bid and or feedback. why sell something for less or just above what you paid for it?
it is ruining the market
why put a 200.00 doll on for 9.99 with no reserve. i sure hope they get stung a few times.
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kiawok
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posted on September 4, 2001 03:05:33 PM
Has anyone notices this in the areas they sell as well.
No, I just finished one of my best summers on eBay, and I've been selling since 97.
The Antique & Collectible market is still alive and well.
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imabrit
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posted on September 4, 2001 03:19:02 PM
KIAWOK good for you I hope it contiues that way.
PACKER I have seen the same thing in particular what I am reffering to on US Brick and Mortar bring 50 to 100 a piece so that kills that as a source.
Plus things are starting to bring more money at brick and mortar than on ebaY.
So I am thinking of doing the same thing and have on a few items.
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kolonel22
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posted on September 4, 2001 03:23:48 PM
This is not just prevalent in the collectibles category it is in a lot of the eBay categories now. You read all the time people stating the same thing in the book category as well as many other like electronics. Just to name a few. Categories that made people a mint in the “old days” just don’t do it anymore. The eBay buyer has changed and competition is steep. It’s very competitive out there now.
For example, the past two years I was having a great success selling leather coats. I also sold other types of consumer products. Like serving trays, As seen on TV items, leather vests, steak knives, etc., nothing real special or unique.
For the past two years I sold hundreds and hundreds of these coats. I’d put up an auction and will never forget one brought over 100 bids. My average was 20 –50 coats per auction. That was then, now I’m lucky if and when I try selling what’s left of my inventory I can get 3 –5 bids on the same item.
The real problem started last year towards the end of the season everyone and their dog seemed to be selling the same coat. What shocked me about these other sellers they are selling the coats at cost. The only way they were making any kind of money was by boosting the shipping price to almost double the actual shipping and making their profit on what was left. I found this very frustrating and eventually gave up selling these coats. I wasn’t about to spend my hard-earned money and only walk away with a profit of around $4.00 without cheating people on shipping. Plus auctions that used to bring in lots of bids are now bringing in 3-10 sales if I’m lucky.
As you often read here you have to be flexible so I “flexed” (excuse the pun) my way into an entirely
Different type of product line. Not only have I changed with the times I have also diversified where I sell and no longer rely on eBay alone for my income.
Health & Happiness
“The Colonel”
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kiawok
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posted on September 4, 2001 03:36:26 PM
prevalent in the collectibles category
Don't I wish! It seems whenever I find something I want the price ends up going sky high. Are there still some sleepers/bargains to be found, for sure, but for the most part I find that antique & collectible items sell for way more than I can afford.
I have plenty of dealers buy from me for resale, but 90%+ of my items end up going to collectors who are willing to pay top dollar to add my widget to their collection.
Sure once in awhile I run into a particular item that no longer does well on eBay, and my solution is simple, I no longer sell it on eBay.
I 'pick' certain items for the local market, where I make 2-4 times what I would get on eBay.
On ebay being able to diversify is the key to survival.
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REAMOND
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posted on September 4, 2001 03:42:23 PM
"Diet Pills" and "Spy Software" are the way to go.
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packer
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posted on September 4, 2001 03:44:26 PM
I live in a small community so my diversity is limited.
It seems now anymore when I go to auctions, the same people are there and they all seem to know what I'm after. The bidding can get way out of hand sometimes.
I started going out of county but there again it seems like its the same people after the same things I'm after.
Its not much fun anymore because the prices get driven up to where its not profitable for me to win it.
Makes me wonder why these other folks are wanting that stuff for.
If its to sell on eBay or the internet, they will soon learn.
packer
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GreetingsfromUK
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posted on September 4, 2001 03:44:36 PM
Neatstuff. I am not in competion to you, but it sure gives me a thrill to find my sale price doubling in last five minutes. And having been trading since 1999, I do not need to buy feedback, and yes I have been stung a few times. Win some lose some. I think it is called competition.
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imabrit
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posted on September 4, 2001 03:45:04 PM
I agree and have always said thet diversification is the key.But its hard and takes a lot of effort to keep finding other areas to get into.
My beef is not the competition or anything like that.
What does not make sense is why price an item and sell it for 5.00 when it has easily bought 4 to 6 times that in the past.
Doing that devalues the true worth of the object.
Another area I sell in I used to list the items starting at 1.00 to 3.00 each.I sold every one of them each week and had sales of about 500 to 600 on about 70 items.Overall I made money on the lot.
I sold some excess of what I had to another ebaY dealer.He went out and priced the items much higher.Some he did sell others he did not but it came apparent that you could make just as much money by pricing the items highe though not sell as much.
This is what I do and I still sell 500 to 600 a week of those items but probably only sell a 3rd to half as many but I make more money on each and its less time packing.
So pricing things at 50c to 1.00 is not always the best way to run a business.
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imabrit
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posted on September 4, 2001 03:49:18 PM
GreetingsfromUK
Its always fun to watch an item double in price in the last few mins.
But its even better to see an item sell for 5 times consistantly over and over again what others are currently listing them at.
Plus there is not a glut of these items on ebaY.
There is very much a different bidder on ebaY compared to when I started in 1997.
I too no longer rely on ebaY as a main source of income.I had made 60,000 a year profit over the past 2 years but this year its probably half that.
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GreetingsfromUK
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posted on September 4, 2001 04:04:45 PM
imabrit
I pay UK retail prices for my lots and then market them to The World. I win some, I lose some. Edited to add "My current auctions are for a UK Registered Charity"
[ edited by GreetingsfromUK on Sep 4, 2001 04:13 PM ]
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dman3
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posted on September 4, 2001 04:12:19 PM
Another reason and agrument for fixed priced store online to take over the next year.
people who have been running online auction getting fed up with newbies and people just out to dump what they have fast for any price.
http://www.Dman-N-Company.com
Email [email protected]
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keziak
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posted on September 4, 2001 04:20:26 PM
The only time I think I know what other sellers have paid for their books are when I study remainder catalogs. I note the price the remainder dealer is charging, what the self-same dealer is charging for selling the same books on Amazon or half.com, and what other sellers are asking. Some go for the gusto and list for 2 or even 3 times the remainder price....and sometimes get it! Others list for the remainder price or lower and when I see them selling at a loss I move on.
The thing is, there is a strong sense that auction culture is based on people hunting for bargains and bidding up the items. Perhaps many sellers are simply trying that strategy. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't. I'm not sure it's really fair to assume they WANT to lose money or drive down values.
keziak
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kiawok
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posted on September 4, 2001 04:32:23 PM
Doing that devalues the true worth of the object.
I agree 100%. I see the same thing in some of the areas I sell in, and I refuse to lower my prices. I still do well as I make sure to make my listings look more appealing than the next sellers. Sometimes it works, and sometimes it doesn't. If it gets to the point that I can make more money locally than on eBay, then those items go in to the 'for sale locally' pile.
There's really not much else a person can do.
As far as:
There is very much a different bidder on ebaY compared to when I started in 1997.
I disagree, and I too started selling in 97.
What HAS changed is the sellers. There's mega more sellers now than there was back in 97, and some of them are willing to almost give things away in order to make a sale. Fortunately most of them don't last long.
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packer
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posted on September 4, 2001 04:38:12 PM
dman,
I'm certainly not trying to "dump my stuff fast at any price".
I start low to generate interest and get some bidding activity started.
I try not to list junk and it seems when I buy it, it isn't junk. But I have noticed if I hold onto it to long I end up with "junk" prices.
That old saying "the value increases with time" is no longer true for some things. What was once what we thought "RARE" is rare no longer.
But I have to agree with kiawok, it seems when I'm in the mood to buy something to enhance my own personal collection the bidding goes through the roof, and certainly more then I want to pay.
packer
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reston_ray
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posted on September 4, 2001 04:45:11 PM
Good thread. No idea what the answer is but staying flexible seems to help.
I feel sorry for anyone that is caught in the middle when liquidators enter the market with pallets of their items.
Companies like ReturnBuy, the company that eBay recently invested in, flood the market with certain items, work on consignment and profit mostly from inflated s/h.
With over a thousand listing they get a lot of exposure, receive multi purchases but will not combine items for savings on shipping.
Even after they sell-out the market is still changed because of the lower price they dumped items for and it takes a lot of time before a more normal price level returns.
A quick look at their feedback shows that customer service is not a top priority.
We'll survive but the process of establishing alternative marketplaces is slow and sometimes painful.
GreetingsfromUK- There is an idea I would like to discuss with you. I would appreciate if you would email me.
[email protected] - Thanks Ray
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dman3
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posted on September 4, 2001 04:45:29 PM
Packer your also not a newbie looking for easy riches you've been around a while.
The point is there is some areas people sell in they can no longer afford to compete with in auction format sure way to fix your return is fixed price buy it now sales.
some items sold are still rare and them who get there hands on them and sell to low kill the market .
http://www.Dman-N-Company.com
Email [email protected]
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GreetingsfromUK
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posted on September 4, 2001 04:51:11 PM
Some thoughts for kiawok.
I sell World Wide with $.50 and $1.00 N/R starting price. My pics and payment options beat my competitors. I get 250 visits to my lot and it sells for $.50. If that is all anybody is prepared to pay, then that is what it is worth. And I will not fade away. The bargains that I have bought will be listed!
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jeanyu
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posted on September 4, 2001 05:14:46 PM
Just my thoughts-- I always started my auctions at $9.99 no matter what the book price was. Now, taking some hard hits lately at $9.99, so starting my auctions at the price I can live with.
Will it work? I don't know. But I sure as heck know when eBay is a wholesale market, I am back to the real world B&M world!
Thanks be, I have two B&M real outlets for my wares. I have loved eBay the past 2 1/2 years but it has been down down down lately.
Cycles--cycles--I can deal with it.
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hwahwahwahwa
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posted on September 4, 2001 05:58:03 PM
there are some trends worth watching-
(1) individual sellers who use their credit card to buy goods for resale and list on ebay may have a harder time making payment if they dont sell some items at a decent profit.
not every thing we buy for resale sell,so those which sell would have to sell high enough to cover the cost of the entire lot plus the ebay fees .
nothing is more realistic than looking at your monthly credit card statement,if one does not pay up,interest rate at 11-22% can really add up fast.
this could be a reason why some items are listed at cost so they will bring some cash in to reduce that credit card balance.
in the long run,these sellers will fall by the way side.
(2) wholesalers are raising requirements on open order and reorders in amount and quantity.
(3) manufacturers are watching in horror how their goods are sold at bargain basement and their traditional brick and mortar stores just cant compete with online sellers-take a look at some brands like russian lomonosov and royal dux of cxechoslovakia.
when their retail network is diminished,what do you think is going to happen to the manufacturer,a foreign company which i would not name has recently established a program for us market-they will just sell to licensed retail shops with minimum sales of 3000 per year and they raised their prices 300 %
good companies know how to protect their market and their precious retail network,you dont see rolex and mercier letting anyone buy wholesale??
in my categories,there seem to be a shortage of quality goods being offered on ebay,may be the good dealers refuse to cheapen their goods or they cannot afford to,or like the thread said,sell for more in their own shops,
may be ebay will do something ,it is no fun manning such a complex network so everyone can buy and sell for 1.95 per item.
but then ebay has just bot half.com and liquidation outfit??
just my personal observation,hold good merchanise,if they want it,they just have to pay your price.
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kiawok
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posted on September 4, 2001 06:08:06 PM
Greetings
If that is all anybody is prepared to pay, then that is what it is worth.
Not exactly, but if believing that helps you sleep better at night, more power to ya.
I also sell globally, always have, always will. I love my International customers, and the ones from the UK have been SUPER!
BUT .........
eBay is in no way a market where one can get an accurate idea of an items 'worth', and it never has been. It's really no different than a RL auction in that respect, what soars one week can flop the next. I've seen this many times over the years, at RL auctions as well as on eBay.
I sold a beat up piece of crap last week for close to $250, does that mean that's what it's 'worth'? Not likley. The high bidder [and most likely the underbidder] have more money than noodles upstairs. That's cool with me, but that certainly doesn't mean it will EVER happen again.
Someone a LONG time ago said it best -
"A thing is worth whatever the buyer will pay for it."
--Publilius Syrus: "Sententiae" ca. 50 B.C.
The problem is that on eBay [and RL auctions] one never knows when the perfect TWO bidders will come along for each & every item you list.
I buy bargains as well, but that doesn't mean I'm going to give things away on eBay.
I buy AND sell according to what I feel the market will bare, and different markets most often bring differnt results.
Life is good ..........
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dman3
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posted on September 4, 2001 06:08:32 PM
Actually manufacturing I can tell you is thankfull online sales are as good as they are Right now.
Since most of the Items wholesalers and the big sellers are selling is backed up stock the more and the faster it's cleared out the sooner the slow down in manufacturing will be over.
Remember back last June and July they were the first hit by the slow down and warehouse were full with two Choicesslow down production layoff help and work to empty warehouses full or Cut there losses and quickly scrap out the over production and hope to survive it and move on..
http://www.Dman-N-Company.com
Email [email protected]
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kiawok
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posted on September 4, 2001 06:12:18 PM
The Royal Dux market has taken a beating due to the new pieces being mass produced over the past several years. Why pay top $ for a circa 1930 piece when you can pick up a new piece [identical mold used] for a bargain basement price?
Supply & demand at it's finest, and a perfect example of a fine quality porcelain that I will NEVER sell again on eBay.
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imabrit
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posted on September 4, 2001 06:42:54 PM
I think the bidder is very different from the one that existed back in 1997 and 1998 compared to today.
Admittedly there are more sellers in certain areas but not all.
I used to sell a good deal of 16th century books and Bibles from the 16th and 17th century.I used to do really well with all sometimes making hundreds of dollars on each item and often more.
These days if I had the same items I would be lucky to get my origional investment out of it.
Its not because there are more of these items either because in fact there are not.
I am sure though that there is always going to be an item or items that will make lots of money for the seller its just finding what it is.
I do not knorr never have carried lots of the same items and I do ship worldwide.I think the key is low inventory and diversify.
I do tend to sell about half of my items on the BIN as I always put it within 10.00 of what I want as the minimum bid.
That way it gives value to the item and the bidder is willing to commit at a little higher price.
As has been mentioned never believe that ebaY is the true value of an item but far from it.
Adrian
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MAH645
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posted on September 4, 2001 06:52:34 PM
The same thing is happening to E-Bay as at most Flea Markets.People are needing money and will try any tactic to get it.I've had a worse problem with other sellers killing my sales at the Flea market than on E-Bay this year,but I do agree that alot of catagories like leather coats,books & videos are at the lowest of lows in price and I doubt if they'll ever rebound.I can really feel for the people who have always bought books by the pound or pallet.I had almost got into that but now I'm glad I didn't.It used to be a big money maker.
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