posted on September 14, 2001 06:25:44 AM
actually get treated decently. I just know they are getting warm food while being captured and interrogated, and will get off severe sentences due to the ACLU saying "treat them like humans!" and along with th Genevere convention, and since they might coorporate into fingering the leader, will avoid life or death sentences, I mean I know we need to get info out of them, but cant we just beat it out of them? I say dont feed them food, dont give them nice clothing or warm bath, even if they give us important info, dont let them off scott free, and if anyone in the ACLU tries to help them, I say throw them in jail, and also if any ambulance chasing lawyers want to defend them, throw them out of our country! And knowing politics, we will wind up using these captured terrorist into trading them with hostages.
Sorry I had to say it, but as past history proves, they always wind up treating these criminals decently. ):
posted on September 14, 2001 07:01:26 AM
The ACLU has a past history of defending our Constitutional rights. It has not always been pretty, or PC, but we all need to be thankful that we have our Constitution, and that there are people who are willing to fight for it, no matter what public opinion may say.
posted on September 14, 2001 07:40:59 AM
Ironking (and anyone who agrees with him)
These terrorists are trying to destroy our country. This means not just people, which they see as incidental, but the very foundation which is our Constitution and the freedoms that it provides. If we forget this, and let our fears get the best of us, and as a consequence forget the responsibilities of democracy and freedom, then all those American flags that are flying might as well be flags of surrender.
It is crucial to show these terrorists that despite what they seem to have accomplished, they have not destroyed our fundamental system of government and the beliefs that uphold it.
Our country is the greatest in the world not because we are rich, or because we have a powerful military and economy, but because we fundamentally believe in our Constitution and the freedoms that it gives, and the responsibilities that are inherent in living in the country with the most freedom in the world.
The Constitution is just a piece of paper with idealistic words that ultimately would mean nothing if we don’t believe in them to our very souls, and if we won’t do everything in our power to protect the rights that are in it. We have rights not because they are written on some piece of paper, but because we fundamentally believe in those rights, and we have a system in place to protect those rights. There are plenty of countries in the world with constitutions and laws similar to our own, the big difference is that the people (both those in charge and regular citizens) know that they are meaningless facades. They know that though their leaders may talk about rights, for the most part it’s a joke.
Much has been written about how dangerous the slippery slope of thoughts and reactions similar to Ironking’s are, and by much smarter and knowing people than myself.
It is very easy to react this way during our darkest hour, but stop, take a breath, give thanks that you live in this country, and don’t think about giving away your freedom. If we do, we are doomed.
posted on September 14, 2001 09:12:25 AM
marie, I agree with your sentiments. We all need to be careful when condemning an entire nationality or religion ... especially when the average US citizen (me included) may find the distinctions between Muslim extremists and anyone else who happens to wear a turban or attend mosque a little fuzzy.
Locally, someone threw a firebomb at a Sikh temple Tuesday night. Sikhs are neither Muslim nor Arab.
*However*, having said that, I firmly believe that the US should immediately revoke temporary visas and deport *all* Muslim/Mideast nationals until this can all be sorted out.
posted on September 14, 2001 09:49:07 AM
I'm sure if we had U.S. soldiers as prisoner of war you would want them treated with human decency.
The hot food they would be receiving is not exactly gourmet dinner, it is cheap food. Nice clothing? Prison attire is nice? Warm bath? Are they staying in the Hilton while being interrogated?!!
posted on September 14, 2001 09:59:22 AM
fountainhouse
You just don't get it.
Yes, freedom for all don't judge
BUT
oh please, politicians, please throw out all the bad guys right now. No, I have no proof they are bad guys but they LOOK like bad guys so they must be! Ignore our laws, ignore our constitution, forget about freedom, just do something right now.
Here is a saying you should practice:
There is No God except Allah and Mohammad is his Messenger.
That is what millions will be saying if we allow them to topple our fundamental beliefs, if we don't hold up our laws. I suppose you think the interrment of Japanese AMERICANS was OK during WWII.
It's amazing to me how fast people will give up their rights, or worse, not stand up for the rights of others.
posted on September 14, 2001 10:16:53 AM
Please. The interment of Japanese-Americans during WWII is not even remotely similar.
Read again: I said those with temporary visas. Such individuals have no rights under our Constitution. They are *not* US citizens.
The knee-jerk reactions you refer to apply to all those who would invite 18 (and counting) suicidal murderers to live amongst us indefinitely so as not to offend the others by putting an early end to their visits.
posted on September 14, 2001 10:27:28 AM
> US should immediately revoke temporary
> visas and deport *all* Muslim/Mideast
> nationals until this can all be sorted out.
That could be read either way. I read your revoke and deport statements as two separate ideas. I see what you are saying now. Deporting these nationals will do not good. If terrorists wanted to enter the U.S., you don't think they could enter undetected? I think punishing a group of people based on a few is totally misguided.
posted on September 14, 2001 10:44:09 AM
Punishing -- how? By asking that they curtail their visit until our government can get its act together?
I'd gladly "punish" ALL holders of temporary visas ... if doing so can potentially prevent ONE fanatical zealot from taking another American life.
And unless the PTB can think of a faultlessly accurate way to ferret out the peaceful Muslim visitors from the maniacs who are attending flight school and driving cabs, then I suggest that any other course of action is perilous.
posted on September 14, 2001 11:02:04 AM
Pardon me, but I have been under the impression for years that the Constitution of the United States of America was instituted to protect the rights and liberties of United States citizens. I am not aware of any rights that non-citizens have under our Constitution. Have I missed something here?
posted on September 14, 2001 11:07:27 AM
Everyone:
There are many threads now open in the Ebay Outlook Forum that do not apply to E-bay activities and should be opened in the Round Table Forum. As of now, we are going to leave those threads open but in the future, they may be locked. Also in the future, please open any new threads in the Round Table.
Please be aware, we are not trying to stifle conversation, but despite the events of Tuesday, people are still doing business on eBay and need the eBay forum for business advice.
Thank you for your co-operation and understanding.
posted on September 14, 2001 11:20:49 AM
No, gc2, you haven't. I, OTOH, must have missed the amendment that gives the "feelings" of foreign nationals higher priority than the lives of our own citizens.
posted on September 14, 2001 12:54:24 PM"Now I'm curious..does the ACLU have a past history of defending foreign terrorists?"
"Been trying to figure that out for 40 years. Not sure what they do except cause trouble."
I have not always been a fan of the ACLU...but I do at age 50+ finally understand what they are all about. The very fact that America is the "cradle of freedom and democracy" or that we have something as beautiful as the Constitution and all the ideals it stands for makes them a necessity in our sometimes too free society.
They are lawyers who defend the constitution and anyone whose constitutional rights have been violated or are at risk of being violated.
Sometimes they champion causes we all can relate to. Sometimes they champion causes most of us cannot relate to. It's what they are and what they do.
They do not "screen" cases as popular or unpopular. They do not refuse cases because they might not be popular or even on occassion "right" (by any sane American's definition anyway). They agree to defend anyone who has a legal case involving their constitutional rights. Whether you like what they do or not, you (in all fairness anyway) have to concede they put their money where their mouths are. Either we defend the constitution or we don't! Either we live by the constitution or we don't. I personally don't think there is any middle ground.
