danedad
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posted on October 7, 2001 01:58:33 PM new
I sold an item well over two months ago and shipped the item after the seven business day clearance time I use for check payments. Buyer sent me a personal check on 8/1 and it cleared their bank on 8/10. On 9/26, almost six weeks after the check had cleared her account, I rec'd an e-mail saying my check was being returned because they never got their item. Turns out this person is an employee at the bank where their account is and pulled the check and returned it after it had been paid from their account for over a month. I don't see how this can be legal. I have received the check back apparently marked "nsf" which is not true. I couldn't go to my bank and ask them to pull a check and return it for me after it had been paid for over a month!! Anyone know anything about this or have any suggestions on what I should do or what entities I should contact? Thanks in advance!
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dman3
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posted on October 7, 2001 02:05:41 PM new
No you can not Go to your bank anytime after a check has cleared and have it pulled..
Even to stop payment before it clear will with most banks cost you some money stopping a check is not free..
and to messs with bank computer to make it look like it is returned NSF after it had clear is about equil to Bank robbery because they would need to get the money from your bank and from your account !!!!
http://www.Dman-N-Company.com
Email [email protected]
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capotasto
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posted on October 7, 2001 02:23:17 PM new
Heh heh. Time to have fun.
Send a copy to the head of her bank with a complaint. Also cc to the banking commissioner in her state. Alsocc to her state attorney general for banking fraud.
She will be looking for another job soon.
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yeager
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posted on October 8, 2001 01:24:51 AM new
Looking for a new job in about 5 years hopefully! 
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dixiebee
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posted on October 8, 2001 05:56:14 AM new
Be sure and send a copy to the FDIC.
Even though I had a receipt that I deposited a certain amount of cash (which you know they count right there in front of you because they need a "cash in" ticket), my bank sent me a correction notice of $120 less. I was fuming to say the least.
It took me about a month, with letters to every banking regulatory agency in the US, but I received my $120 plus a $50 "inconvenience" check from my bank. They were so afraid of what the FDIC would do to them.
Apparently the teller made two mistakes in cash that day and her till was over by $100 cash. The first guy got to the bank before me and claimed $80 of the $100 she was over. Therefore, when I came in with my receipt that would have made her short $100 for the day.
The tip told to me by the bank home office that I use to this day: When you deposit cash, make the teller write on your receipt the dollar amount of the cash you deposited.
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avaloncourt
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posted on October 8, 2001 06:46:51 AM new
If this is true, then the person's actions constitute fraud. No doubt about that. Here in Pennsylvania, we also have another law titled, "Theft through the use of a computer" which is a felony. It's often used for acts of theft using an ATM but this law would definitely apply in your situation. It would be nice to know if you have the same option.
Start sending lots of certified letters to everyone involved including the bank, the state government's banking committee, their local police department/state police and the Attorney General's office for that state since that act of fraud was committed internally at a bank. I really doublt if a bank would want a black eye like that. Not good PR.
Since the check was returned, Pennsylvania would allow you to collect up to double the face value. Check to see what your state allows.
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wowwow85
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posted on October 8, 2001 06:54:55 AM new
what about the item the buyer claimed he did not receive?
seller needs to prove she/he has shipped the item
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capotasto
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posted on October 8, 2001 08:42:17 AM new
wowwow that is a separate issue. Buyer can sue in small claims court etc. but cannot commit banking fraud to "correct" the situation.
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roofguy
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posted on October 8, 2001 10:08:50 AM new
The relevant banking laws protect consumer bank transactions. There is a time limit beyond which a depositor is protected.
That doesn't mean that the other bank cannot bounce the check, and that one's bank cannot deduct the amount from the depositors account.
It also doesn't mean that bank fraud was committed by a bank employee who bounced the employee's own check due to non receipt of the item, although it's hard to believe that any bank would approve of such an action.
What it does mean is that there exists a procedure which will result in the depositor being protected. The procedure can and will require persistence on the part of the depositor; the banking system can be expected to drop the ball at every possible opportunity.
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mslibby
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posted on October 8, 2001 11:20:18 AM new
As a bank employee I can tell you the following:
1) You can have a check returned 30 days (or more) after it has cleared your account. IF it was a forged or altered check. You have to file affidavits of forgery, etc. This is done late since many people don't find out about the theft until they receive their statement. But since the check is/was being returned NSF, this would not apply.
2) If she did something special to her account that would not be done for a customer, ie: a late return, reverse fees, etc. then she is without a doubt in violation of her bank's policies.
I would print her e-mails and forward them along with your letter and a copy of the check to the Fraud Investigations department of her bank. A copy to the President certainly wouldn't hurt. My guess is that she will be out of a job PRONTO! What a stupid thing to do for $20!!!
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danedad
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posted on October 8, 2001 12:02:26 PM new
Thanks for all your insight into this matter. Now I have a better idea of where to go. I did offer to send a replacement item even though this buyer did not purchase insurance, but they had already returned the check. When I questioned the legality of pulling the check and returning it after it had been paid for six weeks, this person informed me that the supervisor did it so it must be within federal guidelines. I think not. I will be pursuing this - it is an obvious fraudulent thing to do. Thanks again - I'll keep you posted how it all turns out.
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luvmy2bears
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posted on October 8, 2001 12:22:06 PM new
This is pretty sad. We can't trust anybody anymore can we???
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kidsfeet
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posted on October 8, 2001 12:44:42 PM new
I would also remind them that in many states, writing a bad check is a jailable offence.
If it came back NSF for whatever reason, you can report it to the sheriff and DA of her county.
I am sure she would not like the embarrassment of THAT!
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ok4leather
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posted on October 8, 2001 01:49:20 PM new
If the Check was returned NSF and the bank has a branch in your location - simply go to that branch with check in hand and ask them to see if enough funds are available to cover it - if there are have them cash it right there. You can do this as long as its only been thru the system once. We do this at our retail shop If no money is available in the account check back later.
Good luck
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yeager
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posted on October 8, 2001 04:25:37 PM new
ok4leather,
That's a great idea. Checking back on Thursday or Friday. These are paydays for most people.
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dlandau69
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posted on October 8, 2001 04:30:21 PM new
Don't know if I'm licensed in your state, and I don't have the UCC in front of me, so don't consider this legal advice.
Articles 3 and 4 of the Uniform Commercial Code govern the processing of checks. They're nearly identical from state to state. In all probability, then, this bidder violated the laws of his/her state. As a previous poster stated, the only legal reason for such a late return is fraud/forgery. NSFs are much less flexible -- that relates to the exact date of "presentment" (when your check actually showed up in her bank). At that precise moment, either the money was there or it wasn't, and if it was, then it's done. Banks are obligated to address checks drawn on an account in the order presented, period.
PLEASE send your complaint to everyone you can think of. The longest acceptable reason I've seen for a valid return was 3 weeks. This person should definitely not be employed by a bank -- and if she's telling the truth, neither should her supervisor.
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toollady
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posted on October 8, 2001 05:31:11 PM new
Who sent the email? The buyer?
And they told you all this in email? ie: the check was pulled by a supervisor, etc?
Be sure to print out those emails WITH the headers and send them with your correspondence to the banking authorities.
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mslibby
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posted on October 12, 2001 03:14:16 PM new
bumping to see if there is any news on this.
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grumpyebayer
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posted on October 15, 2001 05:11:56 PM new
Any news yet?
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