posted on October 16, 2001 07:34:36 AM new
So, your question is, if you lie ("transaction was mutually cancelled" ) can you still get a well-deserved negative?
Hmmm...good luck.
[ edited by captainkirk on Oct 16, 2001 07:34 AM ]
posted on October 16, 2001 07:38:42 AM new
This is the kind of story which exists in the context where sellers wish they could be proteced from negatives by deadbeat bidders.
posted on October 16, 2001 07:45:16 AM new
Well there are times....I had a book posted on ebay. The day the auction ended the basement flooded and completely ruined the book. I could not replace it.
Did not file for FVF...ate them. Immediately wrote to the winner and explained the situation. Left them positive feedback for being undertanding about our lack of being able to deliver their merchandise....
They did not leave me neg fb or any fb which was fine.
As a purple star seller, every once in a great while I run into a kook. This one insulted my EOA for its length in which I detail steps for newbies to deal with basic things like sending payment and even filing insurance claims. There is absolutely no intimidating TOS within. No threats. No ultimatums. Just basic steps for those unfamiliar with the online world. I have received much praise for this in the past.
I wish to return the money and cancel the transaction. I do not wish to defraud anyone, so any negative would certainly not be 'deserved'.
I do not give, nor do I wish to tolerate abuse in any form. I simply object to being held hostage by the feedback system.
I just might complete this transaction and neg this SOB on general principles.
posted on October 16, 2001 08:52:37 AM new
why are sellers so obsessed with individual negative feedback??
i had 39 negative feedbacks being on ebay for 6 years,recently a used bookseller from florida who is also a member of aw disagree with my shipping policy and neg'ed me.she also has another id who bot from me as well,so without warning she neg'ed me again.
then she went through my entire feedback file of 6 years and emailed every one who neg or left me neutral feedback plus all the current auction highbidders saying she is collecting enough support to have ebay do something about me all for a 2.00 dollar dispute.
anyway,i reported her to ebay for interfering,interupting ebay operations and ebay took action.
as of todate,she is still selling on ebay.
so thanks to her,i have 2 more negatives.
she is very quiet now altho she may be reading this board and asking why book sales is so depressed .
it is not possible to please everyone,and ebay always said bidders look at the overrall rating and judge for themselves.
the only fatal neg is the one which said seller took payment and skipped town and i have seen some of these negs,seller usually have disappeared long ago.
posted on October 16, 2001 08:54:57 AM new
My God, we must be dealing with the same phsyco! He is a nut case! Has been calling my home and messing with my auctions. Threatened to do a PayPal chargeback and not accept the package for no apparant reason, just nuts!
posted on October 16, 2001 08:57:31 AM new
well, if you don't want to defraud anyone, you should start by NOT lieing and filing a FVF credit request with ebay. Ebay deserves their fees in this case. Not to mention that the buyer might then get an unfair NPB ding and then have to take his time to *try* and get it appealed.
Second, I think calling this person an "SOB" and giving them a negative FB because they "insulted your TOS" is a bit like the pot calling the kettle black. Perhaps they were rude..but so are the steps you are contemplating. Actually more than rude, since negative FB carries on forever, but a rude email can be easily erased.
They were high bidder, and sent payment, either send them the item and be done with it or just refuse the paypal payment and accept the consequences of your actions. I can't find "being rude" anywhere in the ebay policies that warrant a reason to cancel a completed transaction and avoid a well-deserved negative.
posted on October 16, 2001 08:57:43 AM new
"I wish to return the money and cancel the transaction."
It's an auction-- you offered the item to the highest bidder. You allowed the auction to run to its conclusion. Bidder paid as agreed. You're obligated (legally and by eBay's rules, not to mention ethically) to ship the item.
If you chose not to complete the transaction, the high bidder would be well justified in giving you a neg, in my view. And based on the information you've provided, you've got no reasonable grounds for giving him/her a neg.
Do the right thing. Honor your terms, and eBay's rules. Ship the widget.
posted on October 16, 2001 09:01:11 AM newI do not wish to defraud anyone, so any negative would certainly not be 'deserved'.
The eBay feedback instructions suggest that there exists a very broad class of transactional results which are appropriate for negative feedback. Fraud is only one of them.
Actually, if you look at the feedback mechanism, it would appear to be designed for a culture which resulted in a lot more negs than are currently given out.
1000-50 is BAD. Way bad. Well, not as bad as 0-2 and falling. But, on eBay's summary, it's +950, which appears GOOD.
posted on October 16, 2001 09:48:05 AM new
what should ebay do?instead of netting ,show 2 separate totals-neg and positive??
if so,every one would just want to read all the negs.
i really think the salad days of competitive bidding is over,you see more and more buy it now and if not buy it now,you get one bid .
so why not just have ebay shops and ask the shopowner to come up with some credentails,if you have below certain feedback,then come up with a good faith deposit.
it should get rid of all those sellers who sell books at one penny.
someone said these book sellers are lonely and crave attention,??????????????
posted on October 16, 2001 09:57:23 AM new
I think you are legally & ethically obligated to ship the item. A neutral or neg feedback "bidder paid promptly but was abusive" would be absolutely justified.
As a seller I am looking to avoid problems with this transaction. Experience has shown that 'bad vibes' from correspondence prior to a transaction is just a prelude to problems after a transaction.
If I go into a Walmart and hassle a cashier, that transaction would be cancelled by the manager, even after payment.
I someone were to hassle a real life auctioneer they would be ejected in a heartbeat.
The 'mutual cancellation FVF' was hopefully a way to prevent any form of feedback. It causes no harm to anyone as it is not considered an NPB. And it is not dishonest, since ebay does not provide for a means of sellers protecting themselves. And the transaction would be cancelled so ebay is hardly out any blood money.
I pride myself on 700+ positives, and only a single neg from a similar type of kook.
Once again, I am not being overly sensitive due to a cranky customer. I see problems ahead, and would like to take proactive action.
I have emailed this person with a calm acknowledgement of his payment and a simple explanation of my policies. If he is abusive again I *will* cancel the transaction. I do not buy sh*t. I do not sell sh*t. I am not in the sh*t business. He has however, not replied.
This is also a question of money. If he decides that this item is 'not as described' I am expected to refund shipping both ways as well as item cost. Naturally I have not tried to deceive this customer, but I have gotten taken in the past by customers claiming falsely that the item was not described accurately. Such as a purse that was claimed to have dry rot and a musty smell (along with an offer to let them keep it after refund so they could donate it to a Goodwill!) It was returned, entirely at my cost only to find it in fine condition and smelling like perfume.
posted on October 16, 2001 10:06:04 AM newThe 'mutual cancellation FVF' was hopefully a way to prevent any form of feedback.
You can "hope" but both the bidder and you will still have the right & opportunity to leave feedback for as long as the auction remains in the database.
If he decides that this item is 'not as described' I am expected to refund shipping both ways as well as item cost
What do you have in your TOS regarding returns/refunds?
If you don't have anything, you'd best be considering some kind of policy for the future.
As to the purse, if something was returned & found to be in the condition I described it, then the buyer would only get refunded the original purchase prices less any shipping/fees I had to pay.
posted on October 16, 2001 10:15:04 AM new
I agree with magazine guy. You are still obligated even though you may not like the guy, but would add, why not ask him? I would email the buyer and say something like "I get the feeling that you are having second thoughts about this purchase, if you would like to cancel it, let me know, I will refund your money and we can consider it void.
posted on October 16, 2001 12:14:22 PM new
I just had one of these late last week. He Sent me paypal under different e-mail address and under a different name with no auction id on it. Might as well be a check in the mail with nothing on it.
Started e-mailing me about did get his payment and have I sent the item. I replied No, I have not. Started yelling I paid on this day right after auction closed etc. I said send me the transaction number.
They did and I ask how was I supposed to know that was his payment? I told the person I would not ship to them cause of the foul language in the e-mails.
I have a feeling it was a kid using the folks account cause I then started getting would you just please send the item and thank you.
I refunded the money to where it came from and left it lay. Will probably just leave the fee refund lay also. Neg, who cares if they do. I got 9 out of 3200 so far what is one more.
posted on October 16, 2001 02:23:53 PM newIf he is abusive again I *will* cancel the transaction.
That is completely sensible.
The cost of it is however the opportunity for buyer to neg you.
As a "neg reader", I wouldn't hold it against you. I wouldn't hold it against you if you negged first and received a retaliatory neg. "Buyer became abusive and demanding, returned full payment".
The other cost is the FVF. Don't lie, just swallow and move on with your life. The FVF isn't worth the continued aggravation.
posted on October 17, 2001 01:57:48 PM new
I thank you all for your advice.
Since I have received no reply from this person after sending him the acknowledgement - I sent the item.
I checked all his feedback and see that while he is a nasty cuss, he keeps his venom for deals that go awry. This should go OK. Doesnt look like he falsifies damage, though he does refuse to file insurance claims. No problem since it wasn't insured.
I am however disappointed with eBay a mechanism does not exist for sellers to protect themselves from buyers once they have paid. There should be a 24 hour period where the transaction could be cancelled unilaterally by both buyer *or* seller, with appropriate fees being refunded. I would rather pay a relisting fee than deal with a disgruntled NPB who feels he is forced to pay. And sellers need to be able to reconsider too. Imagine the order that comes from Indonesia for a dozen cell phones that is instantly paid via PayPal. With 48 hours to ship, there is no time to even check for possible fraud, though it is extrememly likely. And in my own case, I would simply like anti-kook protection.
I currently have a payment what was sent Priority with no indication whatever what it is for. Even my standard search techniques are failing on this one. Jeez I hope this is not another nutcase!
posted on October 17, 2001 02:08:16 PM newThere should be a 24 hour period where the transaction could be cancelled unilaterally by both buyer *or* seller, with appropriate fees being refunded.
Well, I, for one, am glad there isn't such a mechanism. I can only shudder to think of the nightmare this would be for sellers.
Buyer wins. Pays immediately. Seller ships the next day to get home & find a "cancellation" notice in his inbox.
Nope..no thanks.
Dealing w/the occasional unpleasant buyer is a part of doing business.
posted on October 17, 2001 02:20:22 PM newThere should be a 24 hour period where the transaction could be cancelled unilaterally by both buyer *or* seller
Yikes!! Have you thought this statement through at all? What a nightmare of buyer's remorse/regret, extra "paperwork"/time wasted on auctions cancelled AFTER the successful closing!
Would an B&M auction allow this?
Edited to add: kelagedart, are you saying you had the buyer's consent mutually to rescind the sale?
[ edited by icyu on Oct 17, 2001 02:24 PM ]
posted on October 17, 2001 07:36:33 PM new
I really think you should go ahead and complete the transaction, but...
I have been one of those to tick someone off. His books didn't bring as much as he'd have liked (I KNOW that had to be the problem, the books were worth substantially more than the bid), so he tried to rook me on the shipping.
Being bad little me, I quoted him the shipping rates... he could ship over 16 pounds insured media for the charge he quoted.
Long story short, he said he shipped them insured at a reasonable rate... books never showed up, I emailed, he refunded.
He was never out no more than listing & FVF. I lost out on a bargain... he is on my never buy from again list. I guess we're all happy.
posted on October 18, 2001 01:38:23 AM new
EBay does have a half-a**ed way of cancelling transactions by allowing for mutual withdraw. But that is for the FVF fee, and still apparently allows feedback on a cancelled transaction. Better than nothing. But not much.
I am however in favor of allowing for a 24 hour 'reconsideration' period, even though this goes against all the rules of 'real' auctions. Then again, ebay's rules themselves goes against all the rules of 'real' auctions also.
I do not wish to complete transactions where 'Buyers Remorse' may be in effect. I would rather not have to deal with refunds and returns as is increasingly likely with these people, even if they pay total shipping costs.
Perhaps a person should have a quota of say, 5 per year, with no questions asked, and after that they better damn well have a good reason that may require verification. This is to prevent bidding sprees where only the lowest final price would be actually purchased. And also to get rid of the cranks.
As a seller that 5 per year limit would certainly be more than sufficient, since kooks in the areas I sell in are actually quite scarce. As a buyer, I have never found the need for such an option.... In this scenario a cancellation is just that - as if the auction never existed, with no feedback or anything. And as a seller I would happily eat the fees.
