montechristo
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posted on October 21, 2001 07:04:20 AM
I need advice on a sale gone bad.
I sold a small antique statuette for $435 and the buyer promptly paid via PayPal, and I shipped the item USPS with delivery confirmation.
Anyway, the buyer informed me that they noticed a white powder inside the package and promptly turned it over to the US postal inspectors. I suspect that it may have been "paper dust" from the shredded newspaper that I used for packing.
The buyer claims that the postal people will not return the package, and they are demanding a full refund! They have already filed a complaint with PayPal and they are threatening me with a lawsuit for emotional distress and filing fraud charges against me.
I have no evidence that the package was turned over to postal inspectors, and the buyer said they did not get a receipt!
The buyer also says that I could be arrested for causing a phony biological threat!
I cannot afford to loose this sale, and I have done nothing wrong. Any advice would be greated appreciated.
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sadie999
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posted on October 21, 2001 07:11:28 AM
Clear out your PayPal account now! Even though you Delivery Confirmed, I wouldn't trust PayPal (or any large company) to handle this quickly and intelligently.
This buyer is very stupid if they turned anything over to a govt agency w/out a receipt. Even when you get arrested you get a receipt for your jewelry, etc. ( Don't ask, it's been over 2 decades. )
I hope you have proof of mailing, but really, if you don't want to lose that money, get it out of PayPal. I might even close the account until this is resolved.
Good luck.
[ edited by sadie999 on Oct 21, 2001 07:12 AM ]
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Microbes
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posted on October 21, 2001 07:24:05 AM
the buyer said they did not get a receipt!
I smell a scam here. Even if the buyer was silly enough not to get a receipt, he could have went back and got one. I'm sure his PO would "remember" him. Besides, if they did take it, once it's tested and found negative, they would give it back.
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avaloncourt
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posted on October 21, 2001 07:42:13 AM
Easy enough solved. Demand that the buyer provide information to you on the location of the Postal Investigation office and the specific investigator along with the name of the postmaster they originally contacted to get that information. Inform them that you will be calling them to verify the information provided. I bet suddenly the package will have been returned to them.
If you smell a scam, remind them that postal investigation is a two way street. Let them know if you are told that they know nothing about the situation described that you will be contacting your regional postal inspection office regarding mail fraud.
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Coonr
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posted on October 21, 2001 07:43:50 AM
Removing your money from PayPal does not protect your from a chargeback. If a chargeback is approved, it is a legal debt you owe, and subject to the same legal/collection actions as any other debt.
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nefish
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posted on October 21, 2001 07:45:34 AM
I agree with Microbes. This has "scam" written all over it!!!
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AnonymousCoward
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posted on October 21, 2001 07:58:47 AM
I agree with avaloncourt
I would also add that I would be contacting the FBI on a phony anthrax report if they didn't really turn the package over to the post office.
No receipt is simply not believable. You can bet your last dollar if he really did turn it as a suspiscious anthrax attack you would have had a visit from the authorities already. In fact you wouldn't be able to post right now. You'd be too busy answering questions.
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morgantown
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posted on October 21, 2001 07:58:55 AM
I think the real scam is this thread itself. I don't believe it. And that's my opinion.
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psalms139
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posted on October 21, 2001 08:03:09 AM
Sorry this is happening to you!
Anyone handing over a package, esp. turning one over for a high value and not getting a receipt sounds suspicious, to say the least!
If that person actually gave the PO the package..then YOU would have been contacted by the authorities in a heartbeat by now!
They would have questioned you big time!
This just happened last week at a PO that is not to far from here.
A woman went to her PO bx and got her mail. She went to her car and opened an envelope. Out came a puff of "powder".
She ran back inside the PO and they called the police. The PO was closed immediately and anyone in the PO could not leave!
They were there for many hours! The place was searched for Anthrax. They also checked on the person (co.) SENDING THE LETTER! The woman had to have someone bring her a change of clothes, so her clothing could be tested.
(They also searched/tested her car!)
( No trace of Anthrax....they figured it was just "paper dust"!)
Your customer claims they merely handed over an expensive "tainted" package to the PO. NO WAY!
Your customer would be sure to tell you of the "inconvenience" it caused the PO if that REALLY HAPPENED! It would have been in the newspaper as well!
What kind of feedback do they have?
I would not email that customer back.
They got the item. (period)
Wanted to add:
IF your customer truly did that...I would think her HOME would have been searched as well?!
[ edited by psalms139 on Oct 21, 2001 08:08 AM ]
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dman3
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posted on October 21, 2001 08:22:31 AM
As a mtter of fact the buyer would have been informed not to contact you at all in any way because it would be a criminal investigation.
Rather your local FBI would have been knocking on your door to question you and search your home..
http://www.Dman-N-Company.com
Email [email protected]
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mrspock
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posted on October 21, 2001 08:37:41 AM
[i]Removing your money from PayPal does not protect your from a chargeback. If a chargeback is approved, it is a legal debt you owe, and subject to the same legal/collection actions as any other debt.
[/i]
I agree with sadie clear out your pay pal accountt NOW Remove all pay pal logos from your ads add NO PAYPAL to your tos untill this is over.
Change your ebay password so pay pal can't insert logos
paypal will do nothing for you in fighting the chargeback. just restrict the account and take your money
if they do the chargeback and can't collect then it becomes a legal matter and not necessarily a legal debt and the money is still in your posseion.
also pay pal won't close the account once it is restricted.
Check out the horror stories on the pay pal board if you want conformation.
spock here......
Live long and Prosper
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Eventer
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posted on October 21, 2001 08:48:21 AM
This has SCAM written ALL over it. If the postal inspectors had taken it, they'd have gotten some kind of receipt. If USPS remotely suspected some kind of anthrax, the FBI would have been called in & the buyer wouldn't have been writing the seller.
Call their bluff.
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AnonymousCoward
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posted on October 21, 2001 08:50:19 AM
Make sure to change the email address associated with the Paypal account. Get a yahoo or hotmail address no one can guess. You don't want people to pay your auctions via Paypal when they restrict the account.
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furkidmom
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posted on October 21, 2001 08:51:11 AM
If they have been watching the news at all, they will understand the penalties for a false anthrax scare which is a federal offence. I would write and let them know that, telling them also that you are forwarding their emails to Safe Harbor, The postal Authorites and the FBI both locally and in their area. That this is not something to acuse someone of lightly and you will see to it that this is followed up to the letter of the law. I smell "scam" from them and a pity that people use such underhanded methods to back out of something because they have had a change of heart. Do not let this go, and I would inform them that I intended to pursue this to the full extent of the law.
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Eventer
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posted on October 21, 2001 08:58:12 AM
Actually, take the offense here. Since you have their home address, consider sending them this:
Dear Psycho Buyer,
I'm so sorry to hear of the concerns you have over the statuette you purchased from me on ebay.
I can assure you the "dust" you saw was paper dust from the packing material. However, to set your mind at ease, I'll be contacting your (insert name of town here) Postal Inspectors and your (insert name of town here) branch of the FBI to provide them with all necessary information about this item, including a copy of the email you sent to me regarding this matter.
As you know, the penalties regarding false anthrax scares are severe and a federal offense, therefore I will be glad to work with the USPS postal inspectors and local FBI office to clear this up as soon as possible.
I'm sure they will be back in touch with you shortly to discuss this matter.
Regards
Let's Turn This Back on You Seller
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capotasto
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posted on October 21, 2001 08:58:18 AM
"I would write and let them know that, telling them also that you are forwarding their emails to Safe Harbor, The postal Authorites and the FBI both locally and in their area. "
And DO it!
Edited to add: Scum buyers like that we (and America) don't need. Where is he from?
[ edited by capotasto on Oct 21, 2001 08:59 AM ]
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joanne
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posted on October 21, 2001 09:30:23 AM
psalms139 - are you by any chance near Waterloo NY? That exact thing happened there last week!
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ThriftStoreQueen
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posted on October 21, 2001 09:39:21 AM
Not surprised to hear this story. I knew it was only a matter of time before paranoia started affecting eBay sellers/buyers. Let alone scams. Just like the recent thread about sellers or buyers not dealing with each other if one lives in Florida. So ridiculous and out of hand!
BTW I received a package of books that I won on Saturday from a Florida seller. It was one of the best transactions I have had in months. Great seller, super packing and nice merchandise. 
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rarriffle
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posted on October 21, 2001 10:18:08 AM
you don't have to call the FBI, just call the police in the city where the buyer is, they are coming down hard on anyone who perpetrates these hoaxes. she/he will definitely get a wake up call!
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camachinist
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posted on October 21, 2001 11:16:13 AM
montechristo,
Did a quick search on your posting history here....
Sure has been a lot of rain falling on your parade! I hope the sun shines soon before winter gets here....
I'm curious...did you insure the shipment?
I wonder if the USPS covers damage from a biological agent?
Seriously, if anything close to what your buyer intimated actually happened, you wouldn't have had the time to even post your message here. You and your computer (and likely everything else that wasn't nailed down) would be gone...
If it walks like a duck....
Pat
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morgantown
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posted on October 21, 2001 11:29:10 AM
Pat, that's what I thought too when I checked the history of poster. Just don't believe it.
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montechristo
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posted on October 21, 2001 11:40:19 AM
Man, some of you are a tough bunch. I just hope that when this happens to you, you have more sympathetic responses.
I have not been contacted by anyone other then the seller, and I did not expect to since all the powder was newspaper dust.
However, I heard on the news that THOUSANDS of packages have been sent in for analysis, and I expect that if this were for real, the buyer would never see the packages again, regardless of the test results.
In the meantime, I am fighting it since I have a delivery confirmation, and my responsibility ended there . . .
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camachinist
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posted on October 21, 2001 11:54:10 AM
I heard on the news that THOUSANDS of packages have been sent in for analysis, and I expect that if this were for real, the buyer would never see the packages again, regardless of the test results
I wonder which gov't agency will be the next to set up an eBay seller's account....you know the old saying about giving the gov't an inch...
There are a few skeptics here, like myself, but I think you got some great advice from some of the most experienced folks on AW.....
Good luck!
Pat
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arewyn
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posted on October 21, 2001 12:05:35 PM
Hi, montecristo
I believe you. I've been wondering when this might happen, too. Sounds like your buyer isn't the brightest bulb in the box.
I agree with the others who said withdraw your money from Paypal ASAP. Chances are about 50/50 that Buyer won't try a chargeback - it's one thing to make a claim like that to a seller, another to make a claim like that to a large legal entity. That's assuming that Buyer is at least smart enough to think that through. Either way, get thee to an ATM!!!
I think I would call their local Post Office, especially if it's a small one. I know my local PO would DEFINITELY remember an incident like the one Buyer says happened. Or go to your own PO and ask them whether they've been alerted by the CDC or FBI that they may have had anthrax passing through.
Buyer sounds like a complete ninny to me. Clearly he hasn't thought this one through. Man, the authorities would be descending on you like a horde of angry hornets if Buyer had really done this. What a dope.
But get your money out of PP now. I'd rather have my $$$ in my hand and a quarrel with PP than have PP have my $$$ and me have to try to get it back!!
BTW, when did the buyer notify you of your supposed Dastardly Deed?
Good luck!
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wildanteeker
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posted on October 21, 2001 05:01:58 PM
Move on......
Really what is the world coming to?
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Landotters
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posted on October 21, 2001 05:16:26 PM
Oh my, but this does not compute. If true, the Fibees would have knocked on your door or at least local law enforcement...smells of a scam...
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outoftheblue
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posted on October 21, 2001 05:22:41 PM
Are the nuts coming out of the woodwork or what? Assuming this is a real story, don't worry about it. Move on!
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kerrigirl
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posted on October 21, 2001 05:57:05 PM
avaloncourt gives the best advice here on the subject. Ask the buyer for the postal inspectors number, the report, the reciept, etc.
They are not allowed to keep the package even if sent in for testing. This would fall under search and seizure laws, and they have a limited time and ability to do anything.
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Empires
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posted on October 21, 2001 06:10:28 PM
Turn the table and turn the buyer in for Fraud with the same Post Office -
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