posted on October 22, 2001 07:23:30 AM
Pay pal allows sellers to mail out anything to bidders and no refund to bidders. for those that need it their 1-800 -836-1859 but keep in mind they will not give you your money back. Does not matter if it is the hundreds of dollars. My last 2 payments made with pay pal I have not received the items , Oh well we cant help you via paypal today. If you are a bidder do not use them. Unless you dont mind giveing away money.
posted on October 22, 2001 07:27:03 AM
Did you use a credit card for the Paypal purchases? If you did, just explain the situation to your credit card company and initiate a chargeback.
posted on October 22, 2001 08:02:04 AM
Hi I waited over 60 days to hear what to do with the saddle from pay pal. They told me to mail it back and denied my claim. So then seller had my money and the saddle. Seems they only support sellers. Does anyone have the police department phone # in vancover CA? I dont know what else to do then to file a report on this seller. Pay pal said oh well. Does not matter if they mail you a shoe if they mail you some thing. The quality of the material does not matter.
posted on October 22, 2001 08:09:02 AMHi I waited over 60 days to hear what to do with the saddle from pay pal. They told me to mail it back and denied my claim.
Can you put some times on this sequence?
When did the 60 days start and end while you waited?
Who told you to mail it back, was this what ended the 60 days?
posted on October 22, 2001 08:20:53 AM
ok on 8/13 I got tried of run around from seller. He had me take pictures to prove he sent wrong size. so filed a complaint with pay pal waited and waited . sept 11 came and went another week. I worte to paypal what am I susppose to do. Heard nothing. Whole time I get 5 email a week from seller. My own mail and packages were not moving since the 11th . This was to be mailed to canada. Waiting to hear from pay pal the claim gets denied. Then they tell me to mail package back to seller at the tune of 36. plus to insure the package. I dont trust the guy or pay pal now. I wanted the sellers demands to stops. As a bidder strongly suggest dont use pay pal.
posted on October 22, 2001 08:23:29 AM
happyday21,
Try filing a report with your local police dept. If you live outside the city limits, contact the sheriff's dept. You might also file a report for postal fraul since you used the US mail to return the article. Good luck.
posted on October 22, 2001 08:26:35 AM
Happyday21, the reason I ask about who has the saddle is that if you have it, there is nothing anyone is going to do on your behalf. No fraud has occurred. No seller, or store for that matter is going to do a refund if you contact them with your displeasure. They're going to tell you to bring it back (or send it back if you're far away).
posted on October 22, 2001 08:36:35 AM
Roof guy I agree with you. But mail stood still while I waited to hear from pay pal. They at pay pal tell me it is too late, casue I waited to hear from them what to do. The seller was so irrational with me in emails. I could not trust him. He admitted he made the mistake. I negged him for this on the day paypal said too bad, he mailed you some thing. They dont care if wrong size not ussable what ever neither does the seller. I out so much money. I had no idea pay pal would just sit and not give directions as to what to do. I am sure now even if I mailed back the saddle would be out more then it is worth over 36.00 to mail it insured. I have not gotten any mail from my canadian bidders since 9/11 so not sure if the mail is moving.
posted on October 22, 2001 08:46:30 AM
Ok, so you came to understand that PayPal won't get involved in this kind of thing.
If you haven't burned the bridge, your best bet is to try to work things out with the seller. If you have burned the bridge, then it's gone, and it would seem problematic to send the saddle back to a hostile seller.
If you paid by credit card, you might have some leverage over seller. Discuss with your credit card company to see how to proceed.
posted on October 22, 2001 08:50:12 AM
The mail is moving fine in Canada, but you'll have a hard time convincing anyone fraud has occurred unless you returned the item, which apparently you have not?
posted on October 22, 2001 09:10:21 AM
paypal does not get involved in content dispute,it is not possible for a third party to judge the content.
if you have used your credit card to pay for the item and you said you have returned the item insured,you can do a chargeback with the credit card company.
it will hit paypal and it will have to go after the seller to recover the loss.
also ebay has insurance coverage with deductible,check it out.
i never buy anything from overseas seller,first shipping is more expensive and hard to dispute/return items.
if i see a nice item offered by overseas seller,i just go take a cold shower.
posted on October 22, 2001 09:10:23 AM
I also was not happy with the idea pay pal did not hold the full 220.00 only 213.00 of it, when I asked the customer rep on it, they hung up on me. Pal pal is just not a good company to deal with. They could of gave me instructions of what to do to get my money back. I do belive they were unfair to the seller as well as to me on this deal. Haning up on a customer that is asking ?'s is really not a good ideal. She should of gave me to a supervisor if they refuse to give back money or answer my ?'s
posted on October 22, 2001 09:17:18 AM
it is interesting few buyers complain about ebay as a venue allowing crooks to sell ,if ebay is more stringent in screening sellers and buyers,some of these cases would not happen.
posted on October 22, 2001 09:19:19 AM
brooklynguy I was waiting instructions from pay pal on this. I got none. So was holding saddle as to what to do. Mind you I think this saddle belongs in the trash not in the us mail. It is that bad.
posted on October 22, 2001 03:01:12 PM
I read this thread several times and I still don't know if I have it figured out!
>I waited over 60 days to hear what to do with the saddle<
Oops, first mistake. You never wait that long to return something or for an answer.
It's obvious, you contact the seller, ebay, safeharbor and the credit card company (if used). Then you promptly return the item.
>They told me to mail it back<
>So then seller had my money and the saddle<
>was holding saddle as to what to do<
Ok, they told you to return it. You did not.
You still have the item as I read it.
Correct?
< I negged him for this on the day paypal said >
Oops again. You negged the seller because PayPal said no refund. BIG mistake. No more bargaining power with the seller. Once you leave negative feedback you seal the fate of the transaction. I doubt that he will work with you now.
Seems as if you are fighting PayPal on an issue that is really not PP's problem.
You should be dealing with ebay & safeharbor if the person really......
<He admitted he made the mistake>.
As others have stated, I don't see this as a PayPal issue at all.
I think that you are headed down the wrong river here.
(of course I'm still not sure what I read here yet!)
posted on October 22, 2001 05:07:03 PM
there are some buyers who think -if i return the item,then seller would have money and item?
but most sellers are here to sell ,not to hoard merchandise and if you return the item,you can do chargeback.
you have to make sure there is some kind of proof he has received the item like getting his signature or having it insured/
the sad thing is there have been cases seller said the buyer returned a different item or not in same condition.
the whole issue comes back to-buy from individual who is not an established retailer,you run a chance of getting screwed.
if you dont know the seller and he has a low feedback or have not been on ebay long,dont buy big ticket items,
posted on October 23, 2001 04:14:38 AM
hi, quite simply I did not have the $36.56 to mail back this item. I was out over 220.00 and could not afford to ship it back. The seller misrepresented the item. Was harrasing me daily. I was so sick of him and pay pal at this point.I am at day 86 now still no satifaction, my paypal account is restricted due to this thank you pay pal. They are condoning fraud on their site. Which is great news to sellers!1 You can sell a expensive item, mail it prove you mailed it say opps and keep your money via pay pal. since the seller was in such disbelive and wrote me 500 word letters why I was stuck with saddle, sending it back was not going to get my money back. Just no saddle or my money. I dont want it , it belongs in the trash. he wants to resell it to sell again to defraud another bidder. ? i propose to pay pal If I give them my tracking # etc. Do I get my money back.. NO guys they hold money for till you protest then give it back to the seller. This is wonderful news to sellers. Ship any thing, pay pal condones it. The lock up the injured parties pay pal just for having a problem.
posted on October 23, 2001 04:18:29 AM
wowwow85 I have sent this to square trade. no answer, I have sent to ebay safe harbor like 10 times. I get letters like thank you for bringing this to our attention yada yada. I am quite frustrated over this. I was under the impression a high start price meant good quality. NOT.. my 25 year old saddle that I was trying to replace is in much much better condtion.
posted on October 23, 2001 04:22:31 AM
soldat2 pay pal restricted my account. I guess I had 3 resons why I didnot return junk saddle.. ONE.. Pay pal did not hold entire amount of money.. 213.00 vs 220.. seller did not send money to send back he insisted on insurance tracking etc. 36.56 vs 30.00 . I was sick of paying for sellers mistake. 3rd reason was waiting to hear from pay pal what to do. The had a hold of $213.00 from sellers account but never told me anything other.. Not paypals fault , just a quality issue.. I DID NOT GET WHAT I BID ON>> sheeze.. I hate sellers like this guy on ebay. He makes ebay a unsafe place. And pay pal condones it by takeing the money.
posted on October 23, 2001 05:37:40 AM
happyday21,
Have you EVER considered what you are asking for from the seller perspective?
Buyer pays, seller ships, buyer disputes & gets money back. Then buyer has the saddle AND the money. Does that look any more right to you?
Probably but it's NOT the way business works.
PayPal, BillPoint, MasterCard, Visa, Discover, et. al., are only payment facility companies. They are not the selling company. They do not guarantee quality.
If you buy, have a dispute, they'll hold the charge to you until it's proven the item wasn't shipped or you resolve it with the seller. NOTICE the operative word here, "YOU".
It's not for them to fight your battles for you. If you feel the saddle had been misrepresented, it was for YOU to resolve either directly w/the seller or through a 3rd party (Better Business Bureau, Square Trade, FTC..whatever).
Did you expect PayPal to hire a lawyer & take this seller to court over what you considered a "junk" saddle? In the words of George Bush Senior, "Not gonna happen."
PayPal said to ship the saddle back. You refused & there's nothing more PayPal can do when you won't follow their guidelines.
Your best course of action is to put the saddle back up for sale (you call it junk but someone else may think it perfect for their needs...not everyone has to ride in a Hermes..some are happy with a Wintek) and get what you can back for it. Consider it a lesson about asking questions up front from the seller and knowing what your dispute procedures are if the product doesn't meet your needs.
And high starting price only means high starting price. It has nothing to do with quality.
edited because I was typing faster than my brain & misspelled. More Coffee on the way.
[ edited by Eventer on Oct 23, 2001 05:45 AM ]
posted on October 23, 2001 05:40:22 AM
Why do I seem to be more confused as this goes on??
Anyway, I do see how this is happening.
First....
> I did not have the $36.56 to mail back this item. I was out over 220.00 and could not afford to ship it back.<
...then.....
>3 resons why I didnot return junk saddle<
>ONE.. Pay pal did not hold entire amount of money.. 213.00 vs 220<
Why would a $7.00 difference here matters I do not know.
>seller did not send money to send back he insisted on insurance tracking etc. 36.56 vs 30.00<
I never have heard of a seller sending money for someone to return an item! If I read this right you expect him to send you the money to ship it back.
>3rd reason was waiting to hear from pay pal what to do.<
Again, this is an ebay/safeharbor issue, not PayPals.
You don't wait for anyone to tell you to return it, if it's not right, it goes right back. Period!
And finally this....
>Not paypals fault , just a quality issue.. I DID NOT GET WHAT I BID ON>> sheeze.. I hate sellers like this guy on ebay. He makes ebay a unsafe place<
You are correct, it's NOT PayPals fault! Yet you start the thread as it is. Because of a bad seller you're blaming the epayment service.
Then this.....
>I was under the impression a high start price meant good quality.<
Whoops! You read into something that was not clearly stated. Your impression and that of the seller must be a little different. Perhaps you should cut & paste the entire auction description here for us to see.
Don't get me wrong, I see that you are upset with your purchase and I don't blame you one bit.
But.....
You still have the saddle,
would not/did not/will not return it,
and already negged the seller.
posted on October 23, 2001 05:46:03 AM
Whoa, back up.
NOW you say the saddle is junk??????
Before you said that the seller sent you the wrong size. You did not say ANYTHING about it being in poor condition, or "junk".
What is it? That the seller sent the wrong size, or that the saddle "belongs in the trash"?
As a seller, I would NEVER refund without getting the merchandise back. But, I will always refund if I made an error, or even if the item was just not something you wanted. But, that is just me.
posted on October 23, 2001 06:06:30 AM
Let me add an explanation for non-equestrian people to help them understand the problems involved.
Saddles aren't one size fits all. Buy the wrong side or shape & you can end up pinching the horse & an uncomfortable horse is 1200 pounds of testy animal.
Saddles aren't one size fits all for the rider either. It's like buying clothing. What sits comfortably in one size is the ride from Hades in another.
Unless you know EXACTLY what you need (for the horse & for you) & the brand, ordering sight unseen can be risky at best.
And they are heavy & bulky to ship. English saddles are a bit lighter than a western saddle if it has a lot of silver on it.
I would buy (and have bought) saddles ONLY if I knew the exact brand, the shape and the seat size to fit my daughter's ever widening rear end.
But, first she said the saddle was the wrong size. No problem there. But, NOW she says it is junk and belongs in the trash. That her 25 year old saddle was in better condition than this one.
So, I want to know, which is it? Wrong size, or bad condition?
posted on October 23, 2001 06:59:02 AM
Kis feet... the billets were cut off and resewn.. I freeked.. over 40 years of ridding never rode in rewsewn billets. My horse bucks. those billits scare the life out of me
