posted on December 7, 2001 11:29:01 AM new
I need some advice on what I think is a misrepresentation in an auction for a doll. The description indicated and the picture showed the original tag attached to the hand, and the doll in a white dress. The description did not say the head was scratched or that there was a stain on the dress. The tag was attached to the doll's wrist with a rubber band (the rubber band was not visible in the picture, just the tag).
I feel that the seller should be responsible for reimbursing for shipping both ways ... the seller disagrees.
I don't want to get into a conflict with this person ... but I definitely feel the auction was misrepresented.
Should I pursue this or just accept the refund of the price of the auction and eat the shipping (about $12 round trip).
The seller says that if I had any questions I should have emailed her .... I maintain that a person should list the obvious defects and I shouldn't have been expected to email to ask if there were any stains on the dress.
Before I respond ... I'd really like some input from the "field" ... thanks so much.
Susan ....
here's what I wrote to her and her response ... I've deleted identifying information from the letters.
============
Hello ... My daughter received the xxx doll in the mail today. The first thing she asked me was for the item number so she could go look at the description. She didn't tell me why until after she'd gone to look.
She said that there are scratches on the doll's head and several brown spots
on the dress that were not noted in the description. Also, the description
and photo leads one to believe that the hand tag is attached in its original
condition ... not rubber banded to the hand.
There was nothing to indicate that the doll was in "much used" condition.
This doll is not suitable as a gift.
Are you willing to accept return of the doll and responsibility for all shipping to and from?
Please let me know as soon as possible how you would like to handle this.
Thank you
and her response was:
I will refund you the money for the doll, but I do not feel that
I am
responsible for the costs of shipping to and from. I am not an
expert on
these dolls, and that is why i state in my auctions "Please
email me with any
questions". I have good feedback ratings, and that is for a
reason. I'm sure
we can work this out.
posted on December 7, 2001 11:35:18 AM new
she should pay for shipping both ways, as she did not list the doll as it should have been in the listing ad. with stains on the dress, good luck.
posted on December 7, 2001 12:17:16 PM new
I think she should pay for the return shipping. It is a cop out for sellers to hide behind the statement to e-mail and ask questions when they don't list defects right up front in the description.
posted on December 7, 2001 12:54:30 PM new
Any reputable seller would cover the cost. They knew darn well of the imperfections and tried to pull a fast one on you. No class and definately not professional practice.
posted on December 7, 2001 01:23:46 PM new
I say refund shipping both ways. She states she's not an expert on these dolls......she doesn't have to be an expert for scratches and stains that's just common sense. File a complaint with safeharbour, maybe she has other complaints filed against her as well.
Sellers like that are why the honest sellers are having to deal with crap these days, so many buyers getting burned by dishonest sellers......they expect the honest sellers to be the same way, and then you have to bend over backwards to prove your not. But the plus to that is that they look for your auctions because they can rely on you.
posted on December 7, 2001 01:48:10 PM new
seller does not have 12 dollars.
dont waste your time arguing back and forth.
if you want your doll money back,send it back,else just keep it.
posted on December 7, 2001 03:13:57 PM new
THE SELLER SHOULD HAVE STATED DIRTY DRESS.I WOULD OFFER TO EAT ONE WAY POSTAGE, SHE EAT THE OTHER WAY, AND DON'T RETURN PRIORTY. HOW MUCH DID YOU PAY FOR THE DOLL PROLLY BOUT THE SAME AS ROUNDTRIP POSTAGE? I'M NOT AN EXPERT BUT SEEMS TO ME DIRTY IS DIRTY.
posted on December 7, 2001 04:04:28 PM new
I buy and sell on ebay, I have had to deal with it on both ends. You did not get item as described, the responsibility is hers. She should refund all money that you spent in this transaction including shipping. Ebay also can help you in this check out fruad, start with rules and safty. Good luck. People like her mess it up for everyone.
posted on December 7, 2001 05:17:52 PM new
dont hold your breath ebay will help,neither will paypal-this is a he said/she said situation and paypal for one does not get involve in CONTENT ISSUE.
What if the seller said i shipped her a new doll with clean dress with tag and look,she is playing switch a roo and want to return a dirty one??
proof-for any of you who is siding with buyer or seller,have you seen the doll ??
the only one who can help the buyer is the seller if she is willing to accept the return.
if not,the only thing the buyer can do is neg her.or if buyer uses a chargecard,return the doll,get her signature and file chargeback.
take some time and read the posts here ,many sellers brag about great finds in dumpsters,dental office trash can,garage sale,store returns,liquidation great buys,store closeouts,asking question how to clean and remove stains.
it does not take an albert einstein to figure there is a buyer and a seller,all these junks are sold to someone somewhere
posted on December 7, 2001 08:57:17 PM new
The picture on the auction is probably one from the box. which if it is should have been stated. Seller should pay postage both ways. Why should a buyer pay for a misrepresented product.
posted on December 7, 2001 09:28:33 PM new
As a seller, I say the seller should pay in this story, both ways. It is a sellers responsiblity to tell you everything. This seller DID NOT. M
If you want to be super nice to the seller, for some reason, tell them you want a FULL refund including what you paid them in shipping and you will return at first class at your expense. You might even want to get a signed - certified return receipt.
The seller may say they never got it back and never return any of your money.
You did not say what you paid. Is what you got worth what you paid? If you got a cheap deal, then you got what you paid for.
posted on December 7, 2001 09:37:04 PM new
Thanks for all the input, folks, this is helpful.
I knew the doll wasn't "new" ... or even "like new" ... and the box wasn't pictured. However, in the picture, the dress looked very, very white, and the closeup of the face did not show any scratch marks.
I don't think this is a serious enough issue to involve ebay. The lady doesn't have any negative feedback and I don't think I want to be the first one to do it. Though, somehow, I want to impress upon her (at least I think it's a her) that obvious defects should be pointed out in any auction.
I think what I'll do is copy the url of this message thread and ask her to look at it.
That should be more than enough to get the point across.
posted on December 7, 2001 09:49:06 PM new
It shouldn't matter what you paid. If they don't state the defects, they are wrong.
I recently went through this with a seller. I got 3 pieces of glassware to give as a gift and all 3 were chipped though the auction said excellent condition. The sellers didn't want to pay the postage either but I reminded them that I wouldn't have bid if I had known they were chipped. Then they sent a refund but only for the postage one way so I had to write them again to remind them. Their me page touts their excellent customer service.
It is a nuisance to carefully word e-mails so as not to "offend" the seller, to repackage the item (most times better than the way it was sent) and then wait weeks for a refund.
posted on December 7, 2001 09:54:30 PM new
Sellers responsibility, both ways. This seller isn't going to do it though. She ripped you off once by not disclosing defects. This is not the kind of person who will play fair.
I bought a mens item, turns out it was for a lady. I emailed the seller & asked he pay postage both ways. his answer was "return the item, I'll take care of it" I insured it & sent it back, he should have it by now & I am wondering just how he will take care of it. I expect postage both ways. I guess he's going to surprize me.
Hey stopwhining I didn't pull that stuff from the dentists office out of a trash can, it was laying in the hall.
posted on December 8, 2001 08:31:20 AM new
photos can be eidted to look brighter or darker,also viewing it on different monitors can produce different appearance.
WHEN YOU BUY FROM AN INDIVIDUAL INSTEAD OF A STORE,YOU WILL RUN THE RISK OF GETTING AN ITEM WHICH IS LESS THAN PERFECT.
even if she orders direct from manufacturer or wholesalers who sell mint in box items,an individual does not have the same facilty to make sure these items remain mint in her possession.
posted on December 8, 2001 08:40:34 AM new
And if they don't remain mint in the seller's possession it is the duty of the seller to state it in the description. To hide behind phrases like "I am not an expert in this field" or "you should have e-mailed before bidding" is not good enough. You don't have to be an expert to realize the doll wasn't issued with scratches and stained clothing.
susanhaywood, have you asked this seller if she has another doll like the one you purchased. Maybe she can replace it for you?
posted on December 8, 2001 09:22:08 AM new
Well ... I nicely emailed with an offer to pay the return shipping and a copy of the url to this message thread ... here's the outcome .... Thanks so much for your input ...
Best wishes for a lovely holiday -- Susan
===================
Date: Sat, 8 Dec 2001 08:46:44 EST
OK. How about you just keep the doll and I will reimburse you the money for the cost of the doll. This way you don't have to pay to ship it to me. Plus I am in the middle of moving right now and I will be using a PO box. That to me seems like the same thing that you asked for but you also get to keep the doll. If this sounds good to you let me know and I will either send you a MO
or if you accept paypal I will send it to you. Just so you know I emailed several people with Cabbage Patch auctions and I found out that depending on the company some CPK dolls had their tags attached with rubberbands. Not to say that the one on there was original for sure but I figured I would let you know for future auctions.
Thank you
===================================
and my response --
Hi. Thanks for writing.
If this is what you would like to do, I guess that'll be all right.
However ... I don't want to take advantage ... My outlay was $18.50
including everything. Split it with me. I'll buy a new dress for the doll
and try to clean up her scratches somewhat.
Refund $9.25 rather than the $13.49. I do have a paypal account.
I will leave you positive feedback for graciously handling a problem.
Good luck with the move.
Susan
=============================
I'm happy with the outcome ... there was no nastiness or undue conflict.
It wasn't a large amount of money ... and it wasn't the "money" that was the issue.
I tried to find a doll for my grandaughter that matched the doll her mother had when she was a little girl. I didn't expect it to be new ... but I did expect it would be as described.
posted on December 8, 2001 09:46:28 AM new
Can you post the actual description here please? How obvious are the defects (besides the rubberband) to an average eye? How much did you pay for the doll relative to its book value?
The info you provided is not conclusive to misrepresentation.
I'm sure this seller was downplaying the defects, but we need to know the level of deception. So far it doesn't look like fraud.
The picture and description sounds like it was vague, so then the responsibilty goes to the buyer to ask for more details.
posted on December 8, 2001 11:53:21 AM new
I didn't say "fraud" ... nor do I think this is of any great magnitude. I felt that stains and major scratches not visible in the picture should be mentioned.
This wasn't a "collectible" ... though, in mint condition, I guess it would be to some people. If I was a serious collector paying serious money, I would certainly have emailed with detailed and specific questions ... and people selling collectible dolls for serious money almost always spell out every nuance of detail.
It wasn't a major amount of money.
It was really no big deal. And it had a happy ending.
If I printed the details, it would be easy enough to find the actual auction and identify the seller and I don't think that would be fair.
Oh ... dummy me ... someone could search on my name and find the things I recently bought, right?
I don't think this was fraud. I think it's more a case of amateur buying and amateur selling.
posted on December 8, 2001 01:54:57 PM new
You didn't answer my questions so I can't give a detailed answer.
If you buy a new collectible from the catalogue of FAO Schwartz or online from any major retailer they will not list defects either. Basically all a seller has to do is say it is new or used and sold as-is. With things like scratches the seller does not even have to say sold as-is, nor is required to mention them.
All it is then is a moral dilemma, and I'd tend to settle with the buyer in the regard the seller did not act ethically, but I can't say for sure without more details.
With the information I have though, I'd call it a wash, so accept your bid refund and consider it a learning experence. It will help you down the road.
posted on December 8, 2001 02:34:11 PM new
I think I found the auction in question. It says "Comes with hand Tag." I had a feeling that was what it would say. The photos were good including a closeup of the head. I couldn't see any defects. No other description was given. After the hang tag line it said "please email seller with any questions."
I don't find the seller liable to cover a return on the bid price or shipping. Ethically, yes he should refund the bid price, and you said he already agreed to that. It's a high feedback seller; was not selling hundreds of the same item so should have mentioned tag was loose. The stain and scratches we'll never know if seller knew.
Watch out for vague descriptions especially when followed by "email seller w/ questions." That's a red flag.
