posted on January 21, 2002 08:23:04 PM new
A spree bidder had won 65 of my auctions. She sent me a check for a couple hundred bucks to cover about 20 of them.
I don't hold checks, so I shipped her the stuff and deposited the check.
Three weeks later it comes back NSF.
I send her my canned Your-Check-Bounced email. It asks for a money order for the face value of the check, plus my bank's fee..."You have 10 days to remit to us a money order or cashier's check in this amount."
She writes back (eventually...) all apologetic; someone had passed HER a bad check and now her account was screwed up. No word on payment to US. The 10 day deadline comes and goes.
A week later, she notifies us that she's going on a loooooong business trip, that our payment is in the mail, but she won't be around to read email.
Meanwhile, we receive a SECOND check from her, about 300 bucks, for the remaining batch of auctions. I deposit it, figuring I've got nothing to lose, since I have no intention of shipping the goods until four weeks have passed. Fool me once, and so on.
It bounces three weeks later.
Meanwhile, the payment for the FIRST bounced check has failed to arrive. (We weren't surprised.)
She "returns" from her loooooong business trip, is "surprised" that her payment never reached us, is "appalled" that the second check bounced, yadda yadda until the cows come home.
Out of curiosity, I went to look at her feedback and auctions. No negative feedback for bouncing checks, but hey look: her eBay Shop is full of our stuff! Say hey, can you say FRAUD?
So. California's Bad Check Law stipulates that damages in the amount of three times the face value of the check PLUS the face value of the check PLUS bank fees PLUS mailing fees can be recovered. There is a specific form that must be used and the notice must be sent certified mail.
I plan to contact the Colorado (her state) Attorney General's office and see if there are other steps we can take, since the total of the two checks is around $500.
I have filed NPBs on all the auctions that have not passed the 45 day deadline (actually, that was the *first* thing I did), so in a week or so I'll be filing 45 or more FVFs.
Questions:
Think eBay will suspend her? Possibly permanently? Can I dream?
She of course left me 45+ negatives, most of which say essentially "If you'd been nicer to me I wouldn't have cheated you". Will these revert to neutrals if she's suspended, or only if she's suspended permanently?
Do I have any other recourse I haven't thought of?
Thanks. (And please, spare us all the "you shouldn't take checks" sermon.)
P.S. She's now claiming she stopped payment on the second check...the one that has the big NSF stamp on it. Guess no one explained to her that that's still fraud.
[ added P.S...edited by bettylou on Jan 21, 2002 08:28 PM ]
[ edited by bettylou on Jan 21, 2002 08:32 PM ]
posted on January 21, 2002 08:29:22 PM new
I would think you had a major headache after that mess. I think ebay has changed their policy about the neutrals so I think the negatives stay and thats to bad for you because they cover one whole page. Did you leave her negatives? You must have some great merchandise and low prices for them to buy and beable to resell. Good Luck
posted on January 21, 2002 08:37:54 PM new
Hi Libra63,
Well, I'm a cynic anyway, so I don't get headaches from losers like this customer, it just reinforces my already dark view of human nature.
Thanks for the pointer on the feedback. I can't seem to stay abreast of all the changes on eBay.
Quite a few of our customers buy for resale, so I don't hold that aspect of it against her. It's just particularly galling to see ill-gotten goods up for sale at three times what she paid. The good news is that she's gotten no bids on them.
Yes, I left her factual, emotionless negative feedback, just like the Feedback Forum says to.
posted on January 21, 2002 08:51:13 PM new
It has been many years since I worked Retail and dealt with bad checks for a up scale furniture store in Colorado. We had the same type law. 3 times the face value of the check plus bank fees. Back in the 80's when I did this type of thing, they required that the receiver seen a photo id and had at least a driver's license number on the check.
Best of luck to you.
In the past I have seen (on this board) someone post a collection agency that specializes in internet collects. I don't have the site but maybe someone else does.
The check that you did not ship the merchandise on would not be collectable since you are not out the funds.
posted on January 21, 2002 09:03:06 PM new
Oh, this just gets funnier and funnier.
Our favorite rubber check author is...get this..."A SquareTrade Seal Member...Safe, Honest and Guaranteed!"
I'm rolling on the floor holding onto my sides.
Our email to SquareTrade this evening (I expect no response):
I find it utterly fascinating that K*** M***** W**** (eBay userid: deleted, email address: deleted) is a "Square Trade Seal Member, Safe, Honest and Guaranteed".
Does this mean you will force her to make good the TWO NSF CHECKS she sent me in payment for more than 60 of our auctions?
Since she is selling jewelry she bought from us with the bad checks, will you continue to certify her "Safe, Honest and Guaranteed"?
Would you like to see scans of the NSF checks? I have them available. I also have available her feedback comments where she admits she cheated us, which state "If you were nicer to people I bet they would follow thru on their purchases!" and "If you weren't so rude to me I would have followed through. Your loss!" I also have documentation that she has been presented with demands for payment.
Please respond. I'll be interested in your explanation.
posted on January 21, 2002 09:07:40 PM new
richierich: The California law doesn't require photo id or a driver's license. Bless the Web for making the text of it readily available to help out poor shlubs like me.
As for collecting on the second check, a bad check is a bad check is a bad check. I fully intend to ship those goods (after all, I'm having to hold them for her) when I receive payment, whatever form that payment takes. If it turns out payment is a legal judgment for 4 times the face value plus fees, why, I'll even Express Mail the items to her.
posted on January 21, 2002 09:08:30 PM new
i wonder if you can do a cyber repossession of your inventory in her ebay store??
say sweep all her ebay store items which are yours into your auction or your store??
ebay store sales is very slow,what is she trying to accomplish??
Multiple (3 or more) feedbacks left by the same user as part of a campaign to harass one or more users.
Sorry to hear that this happened to you, bettylou. You should contact ebay about all the negative feedback and hopefully they will remove it all. Wishing you the best.
posted on January 21, 2002 09:39:19 PM new
You know maybe when you contact the Colorado States Attorney's Office - you could go after the "sell stole goods on the internet" aspect. Technically, she never paid.
Judgements are not worth the time. It will take you years to get your money. And the money & time you will waste every time she moves, to track her down.
"I plan to contact the Colorado (her state) Attorney General's office and see if there are other steps we can take, since the total of the two checks is around $500. " Like I said, they will not do anything at all regarding the second check if they know you still have the items. I am not even sure if they will do anything about the first check.
But I would definitely ask them and tell them that she is selling the items on ebay. I assume you have pulled her ebay contact info to assure the address registered and the address you mailed to are the same. That is information they will ask you.
YES, http://www.madagency.com is the one I have seen posted here lots of times.
posted on January 21, 2002 09:45:49 PM new
richierich: You know, it never occurred to me to pull her contact info. At the very least it's always good as a scare tactic.
posted on January 21, 2002 10:08:09 PM new
I'm not 100% sure about this, but I think you can only collect double or triple on a bad check if it's written on a account that was previously closed, not NSF.
Doesn't really matter though, your chances are slim of ever collecting in small claims court. I also thing your best bet would be madagency.com
posted on January 21, 2002 10:17:45 PM new
ONE MORE THING -
In Colorado a check is not a bad check until it has been presented for payment TWICE. So if you have not already done so you will need to deposit them so they can bounce one more time.
posted on January 22, 2002 05:23:21 AM new
perhaps she did not put a stop on the first check? i think your bank can tell you the reason for it being rubber ie no funds / stopped? If the reason was insufficient you might get a nice surprise if you redeposit it...i take it the reason she stopped the 2nd check was because her account was sufficiently funded.
just a thought but my girlfriend has a similar situation and she retried the check a month later and it worked .
needless to say they buyer was pissed but she got her money and ate the original fee for the rubber check!
posted on January 22, 2002 06:57:55 AM new
I agree. Wait a month or two until the
dumb *** buyer thinks you have forgotten
about the checks. Then redeposit them and cross your fingers.
posted on January 22, 2002 08:09:20 AM new
BananaSpider: I left as many as I could, with the basic information: "Check BOUNCED. 2nd NSF check from her."
I was scrupulous about being as factual as possible, since for each item I left that comment for, the check had indeed bounced.
Her retaliatory negs are full of childish digs like: "Obviously you need a big dose of Prozac", "I'm going to WORN everyone about you" (yes, worn, what a laugh), and "UNPROFESSIONAL!!!! Petty, rude, vicious and dispicable!!!"
I imagine Yosemite Sam saying "desh-piccable" and fall over laughing. Maybe she looks like Yosemite Sam in real life. Sufferin' Succotash!
posted on January 22, 2002 09:16:28 AM new
Sorry to hear of the problems. Contacting e-bay and advising them of the issue could get those negatives removed. If you are up to it you could sue her for damages do to the feedback she left you. It is a pretty clear cut case and you should not have a problem getting an attorney to take the case pro-bono. This seller due to giving you a bad check and the slandering you without cause has cost you potential business. So you could get three times the bounced checked and slander damages.
posted on January 22, 2002 10:05:50 AM new
All: I called her bank this morning to verify funds, preparatory to presenting both checks for payment again, and (no surprise here) there are not sufficient funds to cover either check.
In answer to my query, I discovered there was no stop payment order put on the second check; it is truly NSF as well as the first.
posted on January 22, 2002 10:09:21 AM new
mcjane: Not according to California's Bad Check Law, which states:
?Under California's Bad Check Law, a person who has written a check to another person or business can be required to pay the
amount of the check and either a statutory service charge or a statutory penalty if the check is returned by the bank due to
insufficient funds."
posted on January 22, 2002 10:17:35 AM new
Assuning this person has a real job.
2/15 is one of the busiest pay dates on the calendar. People that get paid the 15th & 30th get paid, People who get paid every Friday get paid, People who get paid every other week get paid.
I would try to plan it so the checks are at her bank on 2/15. I think that would be your best shot!
posted on January 22, 2002 10:30:15 AM new
Some more advice...... (I'm not a lawyer by any means, however...)
If both checks were NSF even after she said the second one wasn't that clearly shows premeditation. I person can screw up once and
bounce a check accidentally but not twice.
Here are a couple of things that I highly recommend you try. After all, what do you have
to lose.
You already know where the person lives (city, State) if you were able to contact their bank. Maybe e-bay will have her home address as well by pulling contact info.
1) Contact her local District attorney (or one of his/her assistant's) and explain the situation. Ask what the penalties are and ask if there is anything you can do.
After all, it is a crime to knowingly bounce checks. She admits that she cheated you.
2) (Please try this one) Call her local police department and explain the situation.
You may even want to put your complaint in writing and mail it to the police department.
Provide them with copies of the NSF checks.
Neither of these options may get your money back. However, she probably feels like you won't/can't do anything because she is
out of state. If you play your cards right and try options #1 and/or #2 you may succeed in giving her a good scare.
BTW, (if fellow AWers can locate this thread I would appreciate it) awhile back the same thing happened to a man in Australia. He had a buyer in the U.S. who defaulted on payment.
Surely he felt that a man from Australia would not be able to do anything 3000 miles away.
Well this seller from Australia called the buyer's local police department and explained the situation and the police called the buyer up and scared the **** out of him.
HE GOT HIS MONEY IN THE END!!!!!
www.switchboard.com is one of many online telephone books that may help you locate the
telephone numbers you need.
posted on January 22, 2002 11:05:29 AM new
Sorry to hear of your troubles. In my retail shop bad checks are a fact of life. Going to the DA is pretty much useless in most states. Bouncing a check or two is usually not criminal unless you write the check on a closed account then the person can be arrested. To get your money - we have a neat trick - It works provided the check HAS NOT been presented to the bank a second time. You call the bank tell them you have a check from the person and need to verify funds are available to cover it - they will give a yes or no. If its yes - beat feet to a local branch office and present the check for immediate payment you usually have to have them issue a bank check which is guaranteed it will cost a fee but you get your money. With 500 dollars being at stake I would print a copy of the persons Ebay store inventory listing your items and print copys of the same items in your auctions. I would then file a suit in your small claims court - presenting all the evidence you have. You will most likley win and the court will issue a judgement for whatever the money award amount is. You can then attach any bank accounts she has or any wages she gets or you can place a lean on her property. This can be done without much expense. I would contact ebay immediately about removing the negs and the whole situation. The laws in each state vary so you should contact your local clerk of the courts office about small claims.
Wish you luck
posted on January 22, 2002 12:02:02 PM new
You guys are NOT going to believe this!
I did what professorhiggins suggested and called her local police department. The woman officer took down my information, then asked for her name.
"Oh," says the officer. "I think I know her father-in-law."
"Is [town name omitted] really that small?" asked I, astounded.
"Oh yeah," she said. "We're only about 9,000 people. What address did she give you?"
I read it off to her.
"Yes, that's her father-in-law's address. I may be able to take care of this myself without getting the department further involved. We'll get back to you."
posted on January 22, 2002 12:31:22 PM new
Get a bad check form from YOUR county and from HER county and fill both out.
This is done at a County level, not State. You should get results. At the very least, if she gets pulled over, she goes to jail on outstanding check warrant.
Not my name on ebay.
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