posted on March 27, 2002 06:41:54 PM new
I've never had this happen before.
Got email:
"I just received an empty envelope for this item. It is stamped `Received in damaged condition at B****** S******, [zipcode]'. Apparently the envelope was not strong enough to hold the merchandise. It has split open at the seam. Please advise."
I've shipped literally thousands of packages using these same Tyvek envelopes, never a problem. They are incredibly strong. I don't know what to think. Customer did not purchase insurance.
posted on March 27, 2002 06:50:24 PM new
I'm a high volume seller and recommend that you replace the item or refund the cost of the purchase. My sympathies are with you on this, but we've been through this before and it's a no win situation for a seller. You are best off pleasing the customer and moving on about your business. Doing otherwise can result in a difficult situation and it's simply not worth your time and energy.
posted on March 27, 2002 06:52:37 PM new
My personal opinion for what it's worth, is one of you needs to contact the post office and file a missing or lost item form. Sorry can't remember what the form number is. I have to agree with you. Those envelopes are tough and not knowing what you shipped, it should have arrived. My post office would have suggested this in the first place...Good Luck....
posted on March 27, 2002 07:42:46 PM new
I would ask the buyer to send the envelope to me with all notations. This is as much for my own information and curiosity to see what happened, and maybe figure out why, as for verification of the buyer's claim.
"If you will return the envelope with the postal notations intact, we will send a replacement by return mail, with our apologies."
Then I would examine the remains and determine if perhaps a box is a more appropriate shipping format. If the item had sharp corners or protrusions, it could have started a tear. It may have simply be torn up by their equipment.
posted on March 27, 2002 07:48:03 PM new
I guess technically it depends on your policy. Do you make it clear that the buyer must purchase insurance, otherwise you are not responsible? Unless you are very clear on that, I think you are responsible...Even in those situation, I guess it depends on the price of the item. If we are talking something like $10, I would probably just replace or refund, it really is not worth the hassle at that price.
posted on March 27, 2002 07:57:27 PM new
litlux: The item was shipped inside a box, which in turn was shipped inside the Tyvek envelope. No way could the box have started a tear. The box is 3.5 inches square and about 1 inch tall. The envelopes run about 6 x 7 inches, I think. Tyvek is tough stuff.
But I too would like to see the envelope.
ahc3: Yes, we make it crystal clear we are not responsible for loss or damage if insurance is not purchased. As it turns out, the purchase price was $9.99.
posted on March 27, 2002 08:00:22 PM new
For $10 it is not worth the aggrivation. That is just my opinion. I know you are in the right, but you should research some threads here of people who have been hassled to death over a few dollar transaction.
posted on March 27, 2002 09:08:37 PM new
ahc3: You're probably right. A month or so ago I most likely would have reimbursed the customer without a second thought.
Then 2 customers negged me over problems (they said) with their items, not even giving me a chance to resolve the situation. We have a clearly stated unconditional refund policy, why not take advantage of it? This newbie "neg first, ask questions later" activity has left a sour taste.
What do you want to bet I refund this customer's money (can't replace the item) promptly and she negs me anyway?
posted on March 27, 2002 09:12:03 PM new
This is why I changed my feedback policy sometime back. It can't do much for you once they leave the neg, and negs hurt sellers a LOT more than buyers, but it will allow you to at least give them a neg, and maybe they will think about giving a neg before trying to resolve the problem (which obviously could have been resolved because of your policy)
posted on March 28, 2002 05:08:25 PM new
What you need to do is find out the distrubution city that this mail goes through. If they are one in the same than I think you need to contact your USPS. But even if you offered insurance and they refused I would reimburse the buyers. I sure hope you didn't mail many of them. Maybe you do this, I don't know, but when I mail in a plain envelope I do tape the edges with mailing tape. Of course they can still steal the items but you would know if they were opened or just fell out.
posted on March 28, 2002 05:27:35 PM new
Libra63: We mail these daily. First time we've had a problem with this packaging.
The local post office insists we leave our outgoing packages in back on their loading dock. I have never felt good about this, so I try to get the packages there just before the truck from the Main P.O. gets there. Sometimes I sit in the car and wait for the truck. But it is possible that mail is being stolen off the loading dock.
The Main P.O. here is the second-worst (the worst is in Fremont, California) USPS I have ever had the misfortune to deal with. Surly management, incompetent help, you name it. The pilfering could easily be happening there.
I do not believe that these packages are just "coming open" in transport. The first customer affected has agreed to return the envelope to me.
posted on March 28, 2002 05:39:02 PM new
i have a hard cover book in jiffy bag shipped via usps,the jiffy bag was ripped open by a sharp instrument and the book FLEW AWAY!!!!!!!!
usps does have heavy machinery and sharp instruments which could cause damage.
filing report to look for the item is a waste of time,like looking for needle in haystack.
your case sounds more like theft,any envelope with hard substance where you can feel with your hands makes one wonder if it could be the HOPE DIAMOBD inside.
having a box of that size inside an envelope makes one wonder if it contains jewelry.
i ship small items in 4 by 4 by 2 inches die cut boxes,never have any problem.
posted on March 28, 2002 06:11:15 PM new
If your buyer did not purchase insurance, you as the shipper are responsible for the delivery to your customer.
posted on March 28, 2002 11:02:07 PM new
MARCN
How can the shipper possibly be responsible for making sure a package is delivered?? Once we give it to the usps we have lost all control over it. Why do you think they sell insurance?? We can't "watch or control" it after we send it out.
posted on March 28, 2002 11:13:41 PM new
Suzyq - Depends on how it is worded.
In this case, the seller made it clear that insurance was the responsibility of the buyer. If the buyer is not told this specifically, then I would hold the shipper responsible. I don't insure $10 packages, but if the item got lost, I would replace it. I do charge an extra fee above exact shipping, self insuring basically.
The thing about this, is that even for low value items, the buyer is probably going to look at you to replace and/or refund regardless of your policy. They can cause a lot of hassle through ebay, and even though the US Postal Service as a fraud case (unless you can prove that you shipped the item, which in most cases you can not) - For $10, to me it would seem to be just better to avoid this hassle and just refund or replace.
posted on March 29, 2002 05:05:19 AM new
The chances are, if two of your items have become damaged in the mail stream there is definately something wrong with the way your are packaging your item. Somehow, these articles are being damaged by automated Postal equipment. I have wide knowledge of the Postal Service and their processing. If you would like to email me exactly what you are shipping and how you are packaging it, I may be able to give you suggestions and possible solution to this problem.
posted on March 29, 2002 06:11:48 AM new
marcn
If your buyer did not purchase insurance, you as the shipper are responsible for the delivery to your customer.
And which commercial code or statute did you get that from???? Certainly not from any law in this world. I believe the real law basically states the responsiblitiy passed from the seller to the shipper when it is turned over to the shipper "unless other arrangements or agreements are made." Technically, the customer has to deal with the USPS directly in this case. In reality, nobody gives a rat's butt about their responsibility or the law, code and statutes.
posted on March 29, 2002 06:52:53 AM new
We use the "peel & seal" Tyvek envelopes. We don't rely on the self-adhesive to close the package; every envelope is also taped shut.
posted on March 29, 2002 08:31:31 AM new
I know there are huge posts about excessive postage, and I don't want to turn this one into one of those.
But--After several problems about a year ago we started adding fifty cents to the mailing costs of each package to cover refunds for uninsured mailings.
It hasn't caused me any problems with customers and now I can cheerfully send a refund when needed without feeling like I lost out on the deal. Luckily, since I always state postage in the TOS, I haven't had anyone question it. If and when they do, I will ask first "Did your package arrive safely", and if the answer is yes then I will tell them it is because I self insure. If they say "no" I would tell them the same thing, but don't want to give them any ideas.
This wouldn't work if you sell high end product, but most of my sales are under $10, and the requests for refunds are very minimal. In fact, I have only had to do it twice. But, should something happen to a large batch of mailings, it would be taken care of. I may have to rethink this policy when the postal rates go up though.
Do you really think telling a customer to deal with the USPS is the answer if you did not offer or did not ship without insurance? If I purchased something from you, and you told me to deal with the USPS, I would. I would file a FRAUD claim against you with them (by the way, just in case you are not aware of a "statute" for that, it is Title 18, United States Code, Section 1341)
posted on March 29, 2002 10:04:45 AM new
Ok, now I have a question.
If you state that isurance is optional. And that if insurance is not bought, then the buyer (by paying for it without insurance) excepts the responsiblity of the uninsured item once mailed. And that you are not responsible for lost or damaged items. And item is mailed "at their own risk". How can you be doing something wrong. I dont see how a buyer can say that you are sponsible if they read it in a auction & get an email telling them where to send payment & how much to send with that info included?
posted on March 29, 2002 10:20:26 AM new
1) Buyers don't really read Terms of Service - They are there for the sellers only
2) Buyers don't care what is in them - They will hold you responsible whether or not it says so or not.
There are some things in life that are just worth accepting than fight, even if you feel you are in the right. American Express once added travel insurance to my tickets, and I did not notice until I received the bill. I asked them to remove the charge, and they wouldn't (even though I never asked for it, they said they would have paid if there was a claim) - What can I do, go to court and fight a multi billion dollar company like American Express for about $30? I was in the right, but sometimes even if you are in the right, you just have to accept that you are going to be wronged.
Shipping is one of those times. You can quote your policies til you are blue in the face, but the amount of grief you will get for $10 is just not worth it (in my opinion)
posted on March 29, 2002 10:36:25 AM new
When it comes to buyers we as sellers are not in a real world. Why do we want them to pay for insurance? How silly. Because they want the best of both worlds. Either their product or their money back. I think if we as sellers want the buyer to pay insurance it must be included in the price and stated as such and then if they don't want to buy it they move on. This is a delema that will always plague us. When I was a buyer I bid on a book that never got to me. I did not ask the seller to reimburse me as I figure I didn't take insurance it was my fault. Not that I am braging but I take responsibility for my actions and I elected not to take the insurance that was offered me and I lost. I always include insurance on anything over $10.00.
posted on March 29, 2002 11:21:54 AM new
Take the option away from your buyers, scammers probably search for not responsible if lost & uninsured. Make insurance mandatory on all purchases or count on continued claims of nonreceipt. The lost/out of luck disclaimer may save you replacement costs but will earn negatives and bogus fraud complaints.
dendude
