posted on May 3, 2002 12:36:28 AM
I've been on ebay for a long, long time and recently I've decided that enough is enough. I now give negative feedback regularly to all the deadbeats. It only hurts other sellers by me letting them slip by. If they retaliate, so what. They won't be there long if all sellers would just help in getting rid of these bums.
I've heard every excuse in the book and frankly I don't believe it or care any more. My real customers get grade A service but the bums get the rush. Sometimes, my final warning emails get results but mostly not. Show them the door people and stop being timid mice!
Sorry if this offends anyone but I'm tired of reading about people afraid of NFB or yammering about FB in general. Don't beg for it or be afraid of it.
posted on May 3, 2002 01:15:59 AM
Feedback is a personal issue. It's one thing to give a trading partner a boost by leaving favorable feedback. It's another to jump on the bandwagon and weed out the deadbeats from the eBay "community."
A big part of the questions is, whose responsibility is it to address the deadbeat issue? eBay isn't really a community. It is a corporation. We pay fees and receive services. IMO the idea that we members should police the site is pure marketing crap. It is eBay's responsibility to provide a comfortable venue.
Many sellers depend on eBay income to pay their bills. I can sympathize with those sellers who refuse to put themselves at risk. I've had tens of thousands of transactions and hundreds, perhaps thousands, of deadbeats. I would simply be out of business if I left negative feedback for each one.
posted on May 3, 2002 02:44:10 AM
The feedback system does suck but it is the only thing we have. If you do not leave Negative feedback when deserved you are cheating other eBay members. Good buyers or sellers will see retalitory negative feedback and disreguard it. I have over 2000 positive feedbacks and 5 negatives. I have left negative feedback for every deadbeat or bad seller I have done business with on eBay.
It has been a very small percentage that have left retalitory negative feedback for me and anyone can look at them and see what they are. I also think when bad buyers see that you have no Negatives they know it is safe to bid on your items and decide later if they want the item or not. I had a lot more deadbeats when I had no Negatives than I do now.
posted on May 3, 2002 07:33:20 AM
twinsoft: You're right about eBay responsibility but the rest I simply can't agree with. Since ebay refuses to take responsibility, it is up to us to help each other. This weird quest some people are on to build some kind of uber feedback rating is part of the problem. I haven't the faintest idea why you think you'd be out of business if you gave negs. Toolhound is quite right. It's been my experience that there are a lot less deadbeats when they can see you're not going to let them by.
posted on May 3, 2002 07:58:41 AM
twinsoft why would neg'ing a deadbeat ruin your business I have NEG'D EVERY SINGLE deadbeat and not one hs EVER neg'd me back even if they did its pretty obvious when you check out my feedback that they are a deadbeat.
I agree with the other message by not posting a neg lets a deadbeat mess around on ebay that little bit longer.
I know many people are soo anal about getting a neg but if a seller truely looks at your record you should have nothing to worry about.....
posted on May 3, 2002 08:44:52 AM
My deadbeat percentage is around 10%. During last year, I had four or five deadbeats every week. There is already a system in place to deal with deadbeats. It's NPBs, not feedback, that gets deadbeats kicked off eBay.
Why should I (or any seller) open themselves up to a possible half-dozen negs a week to "benefit the eBay community? " What's the point? How many sellers actually look at the feedback of their bidders during the auction? In contrast, many bidders do review a seller's feedback, and they don't scroll through every page. They just look at the total in red on the first page.
I've had many, many transactions and chalked up plenty of negative feedback, all of it trivial stuff. I certainly don't need to add to it by playing net cop.
Sorry, but bottom line - I run a business. It's not my job to worry about other sellers getting burned. That's eBay's job. You've bought into the fantasy that eBay is a community. It is not. Let eBay police their own auctions.
posted on May 3, 2002 08:48:15 AM
TWINSOFT i understand what you are saying however if i looked at your feedback i am sure i could work out that you are not out to "burn" anyone.
i think ebay should scrap feedback it serves almost no purpose anymore.
posted on May 3, 2002 09:05:29 AM
I've been on eBay since 1999 and I've had only one problem with retaliatory feedback from a deadbeat bidder. It is my only negative feedback out of a 400+ rating.
I personally think we do other buyers and sellers a disservice by not leaving appropriate feedback for deadbeats.
Let's get real here, eBay has no teeth in their terms of service when it comes to dealing with bad bidders and sellers. They won't even do anything about retaliatory feedback, so it's no surprise that they won't take care of deadbeat bidders and thieving sellers.
There's one person who sells CDs on eBay with feedback in the thousands and who also has more than 15 negatives in a 3 month period at any given time. eBay won't get rid of this seller, even though he racks up in excess the number of negatives eBay allows an account in a certain amount of time before your account gets canceled. They are never going to get rid of this seller because they don't want to lose the fees his auctions bring in.
Almost without fail, when I have a deadbeat bidder and I contact other people who have sold him/her something, I get the same story: bought, never paid, I wrote him/her off. Yet these people never leave negative feedback for the auction.
Just because eBay drops the ball doesn't mean we should.
posted on May 3, 2002 09:08:41 AM
ebay is not a community. It is now every man for himself and it is proven over and over again.
It is just like the real world when you are out there doing business. In the end you decide for yourself what is best for your own business and that's they way you do it.
posted on May 3, 2002 09:37:45 AM
It is not a sad attitude. I call it a reality check. It is survival. We all start out playing really nice and then the competition mows us down as they go onwards and upwards.
It doesn't mean that I am playing unfairly. I just made the decision about what is best for me and my business. Others can do it their way but I play alone and I said a long time ago that I don't believe ebay is a community and I will keep saying it.
posted on May 3, 2002 10:26:00 AM
"What a sad attitude to have. Glad I don't share it."
Not at all! Thats a fact of life. You can learn the easy way or in your case give it more time and you will learn it the HARD way.
twinsoft and kiara are right, file for your fees and move on. The day comes when ebay sends me a pay check then I think about doing their job for them.
posted on May 3, 2002 10:52:32 AM
"You can learn the easy way or in your case give it more time and you will learn it the HARD way."
You seem to assume I'm new at this. My first feedback was in 1996 when the feedback system was created and was on eBay (Auctionweb back then) long before that. I know exactly what I'm doing.
posted on May 3, 2002 01:16:14 PM
I agree with the original poster that it does help everyone to leave accurate negative feedback when warranted.
The only thing I would add is that the sellers should exercise extreme self-restraint in wording the negs. ... The one I have used now (four times) is pretty straightforward:
Auction ended xx/xx. Bidder has not paid.
When warranted, I add "or contacted me."
This does the job of letting other sellers know, without making you look like a raving lunatic to buyers who might be investigating your own feedback record. (Whenever I look at a seller's feedback and see a neg, I always check the buyer's FB to see who seems saner.)
I don't neg people who seem to have a legitimate reason for not following through, as long as they contact me and explain. I give folks the benefit of the doubt... but I do neg when I see someone acting carelessly or simply ignoring my notices. So far (knock on wood) I've had no retaliations. But if I ever get one, I'll try to be calm in my response.
posted on May 3, 2002 01:28:04 PM
Twinsoft - I agree 100% - The feedback game is set up to favor the buyer, not the seller, so I will not leave negative feedback on deadbeats. I just file and move on.
Someone said smart buyers would see through retalitory feedback - Well, what about the not so smart ones. They are valid customers who might not buy if they see too much negative. They may not even realize there are 10,000 positives, they may see the 30 negatives and think, wow, 30 negatives are too many.
If any seller wants to leave negs, go right ahead! All I know is that it will not be helping me because I really don't read the feedback of someone who is bidding on my auction. I don't even look at their feedback really if they win the auction either. To me, feedback is an irrelevant portion of ebay, and I have set up on vrane to automatically leave it in return for those that leave it to me, because for some strange reason buyers like it.
posted on May 3, 2002 03:01:03 PM
Positive feedback is sometimes the only indication of your integrity as a seller. Why risk compromising that good record with undeserved, retaliatory negative feedback.
The NPB alert is the only effective method to remove deadbeat bidders. I have never given or received negative feedback.
posted on May 3, 2002 08:55:38 PM
cheyennecloud is 100% correct. By not leaving negative feedback, you are doing all an injustice. If you have a deadbeat, all should be warned. If they retaliate, respond to it. If you wait to give a neg until after they leave feedback, you are the retaliator and will often get passed up by many potential bidders.
What I would like to see is for anyone that requests a FVF, they must leave either a neutral or negative feedback in order to do so. Then others will have a much better idea of the bidders they are dealing with.
twinsoft states whos responsibility is it to police ebay. Technically it is ebay's, but how would they do that if no one is willing to leave proper feedback. You state if your get 4 NPB, you will get kicked off. This is mostly true, but in many cases that I personally know of, people have been reinstated because of the lack of negative feedback. I suspect they contact ebay stating the seller is trying to get their FVF's back and since no negs were left, they get reinstated.
posted on May 3, 2002 09:31:47 PM
For those of you that are so enamored by your feedback rating, it's been my experience that most buyers don't even look at it. A lot of them don't even know it is there or care. The ones that do read it are usually the experienced buyers who can tell the difference between warranted and unwarranted NFB.
Anyway, the whole point of my topic is that no one should be scared of leaving proper feedback, be it positive or negative. Your fears are as imaginary as some point out that the "eBay community" is. There are a large number of sellers scared silly to leave negative feedback and I don't care what excuse they wrap their fears in, it all boils down to that.
What I do find disturbing, though, is the look out for #1 mentality several have espoused to. That's just plain sad and definitely not the reality I know, but then, I am happy with my life. I can't imagine anyone living under such a code and being very happy. But, to each, his/her own.
The only reason I started this topic was that I was getting so very tired of seeing all the threads here of someone whining about feedback. Oh No! Some meany gave me a neg! How do I get people to give me more feedback? and on and on and on. It's pitiful. All a big numbered feedback with no negs and no history of giving negs tells people is that you are a target! They can yank your chain all day long because you won't do anything about it. At least, nothing publicly. How pathetic...
I think you are confusing business with personal life. I believe in the lookout for #1 with my business, because that is why my competition is doing. I honestly don't care if what I am doing by not leaving negative feedback is causing possible harm to someone else's business (even though I don't believe it is) - I feel it is not in the interest of MY business to get retalitory negatives.
Anyway, just because I use that code for business does not mean I don't care about others. I've raised several thousand dollars for the Make A Wish Foundation running charity auctions, and also help a friend raise money for the Avon 3Day Breast Cancer walk as well.
I'm not saying this to gloat or anything, but to show that you can live that code of lookout for #1 in your business, yet not act the same way in life.
posted on May 3, 2002 09:56:29 PM
cheyennecloud, I am happy with my life. Yes, my business is #1 to me because I know it is my livelihood and I do what I can to protect it.
I help others buy and sell on ebay and they also help me. I help other shop owners in my town if they come to me for advice and I give them names of suppliers that won't harm my business. And I shop in their stores.
Because some of us have chosen to run our businesses in a way that works best for us and it doesn't happen to agree with your policies, I find it sad that you jump to conclusions about our personal happiness. Sheesh!!
posted on May 3, 2002 10:05:06 PM
Well, I'm sorry if I jumped to a conclusion but the every man for himself stuff was worded pretty generically. I have nothing against healthy competition but sometimes I think people take it a bit too seriously. Sorry to color your statements with that view.
posted on May 3, 2002 10:17:42 PM
I'm another one of those non-negging sellers. It's just not worth it. With Ebay's 3 strikes policy, true deadbeat bidders won't be around for long.
posted on May 3, 2002 10:40:07 PMIf you have a deadbeat, all should be warned.
That is entirely a judgement call. Deadbeats are a way of life on eBay and there are no guarantees. If you're a seller, you know that. Deadbeats who get kicked off eBay just come back under another ID. What do they care about negative feedback?
CheyenneCloud, your attitude is a holdover from the old days when a buyer would get booted if his feedback rating reached (-4). Also, in those days, negative feedback would be converted to neutral. Times have changed. You need to re-examine the issues.
From your first post, I believe you are reacting emotionally to the problem of deadbeat bidders. Been there, done that. There were days when I would sit down and count hundreds of dollars in lost revenue. But the question remains, will leaving negative feedback really fix the problem? No, I don't believe it will.
For those of you that are so enamored by your feedback rating, it's been my experience that most buyers don't even look at it. A lot of them don't even know it is there or care.
That has not been my experience at all. I believe that to most buyers, a seller with 5000 positives has earned a reputation as a reliable trading partner.
It is ironic you state a seller's feedback is unimportant, while exhorting sellers to leave negative feedback for buyers. IMO, you are contradicting yourself.
posted on May 3, 2002 10:56:57 PM
>>"It is ironic you state a seller's feedback is unimportant, while exhorting sellers to leave negative feedback for buyers.">>
Good point.
We have nearly 3000 positives and 3 negs. Each time we have received a negative feedback we get several frantic, sometimes threatening, emails from bidders thinking we are going off of the deep end.
posted on May 5, 2002 09:08:51 AM
<<<I'm another one of those non-negging sellers. It's just not worth it. With Ebay's 3 strikes policy, true deadbeat bidders won't be around for long. >>>
Not if everyone has the attitude that it's not worth neg'ing a deadbeat bidder.
It doesn't work on true deadbeat bidders; I've had repeat offenders that other people didn't want to spend the time or take the risk of neg'ing them.
Everyone is within their right to run their auctions the way they wish, but those who do nothing and allow the problem to continue have no right to complain about the deadbeats that bid on their auctions.
posted on May 5, 2002 09:38:15 AM
for all you out there who are afraid of giving negs incase you get one back...OMG I cannot I sleep at night I just got a negative what will I do....my business will fall apart I will never sell anything on ebay ever again.
IF a deadbeat bids on your action and he has already been neg'd then you know to CANCEL the bid and put them on your non-bidders list. Therefore by people leaving negative feedback, HELPS out others not having to waste time relisting, FVF etc etc.
This can be discussed forever it boils down to 2 kinds of ebayers
1.) who are out to help others by making people aware of deadbeats
2.) who couldnt care less apart from their feedback rating
