jwoodcrafts
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posted on May 13, 2002 09:46:34 AM
I honestly don't know what to do at this point.
I have mailed their item. It was shipped regular mail, so I don't know how long it will actually take to reach them.
I got another email this morning telling me that if they didn't get it today they were "turning you in. End of story"
I have no idea what to do at this point. I didn't reply to this email. I am just stressed out entirely with this customer right now.
If you missed my last post here is the url -- http://www.auctionwatch.com/mesg/read.html?num=2&thread=463040
Any suggestions?
http://www.candlesandwoodcrafts.com
[ edited by jwoodcrafts on May 13, 2002 10:22 AM ]
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afallenangel
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posted on May 13, 2002 11:10:32 AM
You've done all you can, and you certainly can't control the US Mail. This constitutes harassment at this point.  What a bummer for you.
Sadly, I doubt that you'll make this person happy. Even if the item comes today and he sees the postage stamp, I doubt that he'll be happy.
Frankly, I think you need to stop e-mailing this person since they can't be bothered with facts and the back and forth seems to agitate him more.
If he reports you, send the e-mails from this transaction to SafeHarbor, along with the time line of events from the time he sent a personal check, your TOS about how personal checks are held 10 days, and then the buyer's request to send the item the cheapest route, which was media mail.
It should be clear to SafeHarbor that he doesn't have a leg to stand on. Unfortunately, he's probably going to neg you because that's the only power he has.
We have signs from God because some of us are too stupid to figure things out for ourselves.
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jwoodcrafts
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posted on May 13, 2002 06:57:52 PM
Just got another email. Still saying they are going to turn me in, but with a twist, now they want to "work something out" if I "email them soon"
I have no idea how to respond to this. I have never had to deal with anyone like this before.
http://www.candlesandwoodcrafts.com
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kiara
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posted on May 13, 2002 07:12:37 PM
Perhaps he has fallen in love with you. I think you should play hard to get and just ignore him.
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afallenangel
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posted on May 13, 2002 07:34:10 PM
If he's willing to work with you, contact him. You'll know soon enough if he's running a scam, and if he is you'll have it in e-mail. At this point it can only help your situation. If you sent the item media mail, there's nothing you can do for as long as 6 weeks, because his item could take that long to arrive. There's not a lot to work out at this point, but let him talk.
We have signs from God because some of us are too stupid to figure things out for ourselves.
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Libra63
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posted on May 13, 2002 08:37:10 PM
I mailed a media mail package on April 18 and it reached its destination on May 2. I put DC on media mail when I send it and I never tell the buyer that I have put it on. It is just a way for me to check the status and to besure that it is received. I don't know, but it seems like since it takes so long I want to know just where the package is.
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Libra63
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posted on May 13, 2002 08:42:35 PM
Oh, I am sorry I thought you said you mailed it media mail.
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jwoodcrafts
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posted on May 14, 2002 04:41:12 AM
I didn't use media mail. The customer asked for the cheapest shipping and I just thought that first class, regular mail would be that. So media mail never entered my mind. I probably should have used that but it would have probably also been more than first class...I don't know. The package didn't weigh much.
Okay, I guess I will email them and see what they have in mind. Although, they probably have gotten the package already. Either that or it hasn't had time to get there. Who knows. I just want this whole transaction behind me.
http://www.candlesandwoodcrafts.com
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jwoodcrafts
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posted on May 14, 2002 05:08:40 AM
I emailed them...now I guess I just wait to see what is going to happen next.
http://www.candlesandwoodcrafts.com
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sanmar
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posted on May 14, 2002 11:01:21 AM
There isn't much you can do with this jerk, but maybe we all have to learn the hard way. I ship very few things by Parcel Post & when I do, I have them verified delivery. That way I know exactly when the pkg. arrives. If I have a fairly heavy pkg, I ship via FedEx Ground which gives me automatic proof of delivery. Other wise I ship Priority Mail.
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jwoodcrafts
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posted on May 14, 2002 07:45:23 PM
Well, I emailed them and guess what? Right, they turned me in for fraud.
I cannot believe this is happening. I also don't know what to do about it.
Can anyone help me out here? I have all our emails and such, but when I went to the fraud link that Ebay sent me it didn't have a place to send them.
I went to Safe Harbor, but don't know what I am looking for.
I got another email from them telling me they had turned me in and if I would send them another item or their money back they would "drop it"
I feel like I am the one being done wrong here and don't know what to do about it.
One thing I have learned though, even on the low end items such as this one, from now on it will ship priority with DC or some other way with DC, but it will not go the "cheapest way"
http://www.candlesandwoodcrafts.com
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afallenangel
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posted on May 14, 2002 07:56:45 PM
I'm so sorry. This sucks and not in a good, wet sort of way.
Do you have your receipt from the PO, or did you place your own postage on it? The receipt should have the zip code you mailed to and the date.
I'd just wait until eBay contacted me, then I'd turn over all the documentation to them. Cut and paste all those e-mails and if you have the PO receipt let them know that, too.
We have signs from God because some of us are too stupid to figure things out for ourselves.
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jwoodcrafts
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posted on May 14, 2002 08:06:00 PM
I sent it first class regular mail so I don't have any reciepts or anything from the PO.
I can't find a place to send the emails because on the fraud form you are only allowed so many characters and that would far exceed that amount.
So, I guess I can just swallow my pride and admit they pulled one over on me and send them another item or their money back. But what if they still don't drop the whole thing and I get kicked off ebay anyway?
If I do send them another item, I swear I will put DC on it. Will that help any if they don't let it drop?
http://www.candlesandwoodcrafts.com
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kiara
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posted on May 14, 2002 08:11:17 PM
If they turned you in to ebay for fraud, I think ebay will contact you. Then you will have a chance to tell your side of the story and you can forward the e-mails to ebay then.
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jwoodcrafts
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posted on May 14, 2002 08:18:52 PM
Ebay did contact me and there was no place to forward the emails. I told my side of the story, but I didn't have many words to tell it in. So I feel like that was to my disadvantage.
This is on a 3.85 auction. I went and looked at the rules and it seemed to me that the auction has to be at least 25.00 to even file a fraud claim. But I may be reading that one wrong.
I can't believe this is happening on such a low end item.
I was going to email them and give in, but I think I will wait awhile and see if ebay gets back to me again after I replied to the fraud charge.
http://www.candlesandwoodcrafts.com
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mypostingid
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posted on May 15, 2002 02:02:38 AM
I'm very sorry this happened to you. However, if you did nothing wrong, you should consider standing up to this bully. (I know, easy for me to say.)
Even though you did not have DC on the parcel, you can still file a Mail Loss form and have the post office trace the package. It is PS 1510 Mail Loss/Rifling Report. If it turns out that the item was delivered, I would follow up with a Mail Fraud report (PS Form 8165) against the buyer.
The forms and information are available at the post office website http://www.usps.com.
Also, if you mail a lot, you might consider a service such as Endicia.com. You get free DC for Priority Mail, and low-cost DC for Media Mail. Plus, there is a log of your mailings. This information could come in handy if you get another nut case like this.
I hope you are able to win against this extortionist. Good luck.
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jwoodcrafts
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posted on May 15, 2002 05:02:10 AM
I went and pulled the buyer's contact info and the address that they gave me to send it to does not match the contact info. The contact info is not even in the same name as this bidder and the address is for a different city.
I responded to this stating this fact in the response section on the fraud claim.
I am also going to the P.O. and file the PS 1510 Mail Loss/Rifling Report that you mentioned.
Maybe they will find it after all if I do this. The way I understand it I have 30 days to try and get this straightened out. So I will wait and see what this bidder does today and then in the morning I will visit the PO and see what my options are there.
http://www.candlesandwoodcrafts.com
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cyanide
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posted on May 15, 2002 05:34:10 AM
Don't give in!
Yeah its only 5 odd dollars, but its the principle. I work in customer service at a grocery store. People will go out of their way for even 10 cents.
Back in March, I purchased a used book from a seller on Amazon. Mid-April I still haven't recieved the book. So I e-mailed the seller asking the status of my order. They e-mailed me back stating they will look into it, their sorry and to e-mail them to confirm my address, which I did. The seller e-mailed me a week later saying the product got lost in the mail they're going to check their stock to see if they have anther book and send it to me. Last week I finally recieved the book. I didn't bombard the seller with e-mails, or accuse him of fraud.
As a buyer, I realize that since 9-11 and the anthrax scares that the P.O. is still a bit shaky. I moved in Febuary so I put in a change of address at the P.O. I am still having problems getting my mail, and the confirmation of new address letter from the P.O. came damaged in a plastic baggie.(the irony in that) 
What I'm trying to get at is buyers should take in account all that has happened. Things are getting back to normal, but I noticed its still abit slow. But, this guy isn't listening to reason. He right away accused you of fraud. He probably got his item, now is looking to get another one or his money back. Yeah, why would he go through all that trouble for 5 bucks. Like I said before people would go through anything for even less than that. Some people just don't have lives and need something to #*!@ about.
Good luck!
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afallenangel
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posted on May 15, 2002 08:35:13 AM
That's great news to know, that the PO can still track an item even if it goes without a confirmation. They're always quick to tell you that it can't be traced with a DC.
Good luck with the trace and the complaint with eBay. I'm glad you're not giving in.
We have signs from God because some of us are too stupid to figure things out for ourselves.
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twinsoft
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posted on May 15, 2002 08:57:59 AM
To report an invalid contact information, go to Rules and Safety.
It's not worth the five bucks to deal with this looney. Leave appropriate feedback (if you haven't already) and send a refund. It's not worth five bucks to agonize over it. eBay is full of scammers. If you're concerned, next time get DC. As it is, you really have no defense.
I would strongly suggest you leave feedback mentioning the problem. It will help prevent the buyer from pulling a similar stunt in the future.
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fluffythewondercat
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posted on May 15, 2002 09:26:26 AM
Lots of misinformation here about fraud reporting.
eBay is not going to NARU you.
No live person actually reviews fraud reports.
The mail from eBay was automatically generated when the fraud report was filed.
Repeat, no live person actually reviews fraud reports.
No one will read the emails back and forth. All that happens when you respond to a fraud report is that the other party gets an email telling them to come take a look.
Fraud reports are meaningless. All they are are a safety valve for angry people, and a tool to frighten unwary sellers.
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Libra63
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posted on May 15, 2002 10:18:09 AM
Now you have to report the invalid contact information and if it was me I would call that phone number, or maybe look in the internet white page telephone book for the person that the contact information is and also for the person that won your auction. I can't believe it is over a $4.00 transaction. Why not invite the seller here and maybe if he/she reads this thread they will change their mind. If the seller declines then you can mention them by name and then we will all know who to stay away from.
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Libra63
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posted on May 15, 2002 10:26:29 AM
One more thing. If you mailed this item at a full service postoffice, you should have a receipt that states the city that you mailed your widget to. One thing I never do is throw away a postoffice receipt. When I get home from there I attach it to their EOA notice. You don't even need to attach it to a hard copy, just keep your receipts in a file and then when they receive their item you can throw it away.
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afallenangel
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posted on May 15, 2002 10:54:31 AM
I agree about nothing coming of this. eBay isn't going to shut you down over a $5 transaction and they certainly won't take the buyer's side if their contact information does prove to be fraudulent. I do know that someone from eBay has contacted me in the past when I've had a problem, and the e-mails have not been form generated. That may have changed in the year since I've had to contact them regarding a problem with a buyer.
If you feel strongly about it call eBay's 800 number and talk to a live human. Let them know what's going on and see if you can clear up the matter that way. Just don't stress over it.
We have signs from God because some of us are too stupid to figure things out for ourselves.
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jwoodcrafts
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posted on May 15, 2002 07:22:16 PM
I am the seller, not the buyer and I really don't want to bring the harrassement to this forum. I am wanting constructive veiws and the way they rant, nothing will be constructive if they come here!
I am still hoping all this works out. I don't plan on giving in. If I had to save my ability to list on ebay I might reconsider, but not until then. I have never had a package lost, and I don't think this one was either.
http://www.candlesandwoodcrafts.com
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kiara
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posted on May 15, 2002 07:44:03 PM
jwoodcrafts,
Regardless of what some people here try to tell you, there are still live people at ebay that will help you.
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jwoodcrafts
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posted on May 16, 2002 08:54:43 AM
I contacted Ebay through one of their links. I am now going to wait and see what they say.
This bidder left 3 more reponses this morning to the fraud. Each one pretty imflameatory in nature. It seems each on gets worse.
I did go to the PO today and filed a Missing Parcel Report. The PO told me that they will mail a form to this person and they will have to fill it out and return it and they will try to find out if it was delivered or not and when.
The bidder wanted to see the picture of the address on the envelope that I claim to have. I emailed it to them. They emailed back to say that they were sorry for all this but they just "wanted their item"
Now I guess I will wait and see what happens from here.
http://www.candlesandwoodcrafts.com
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fluffythewondercat
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posted on May 16, 2002 09:21:01 AM
Regardless of what some people here try to tell you, there are still live people at ebay that will help you.
That's not what I said. I said that no live person reads the fraud reports.
eBay gets away with the Fraud Reporting nonsense because people don't educate themselves about the process. Abusive customers try to use the Fraud Reporting process to browbeat unwary sellers. It's a crock.
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afallenangel
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posted on May 16, 2002 09:21:17 AM
J, did he ever respond to the mailing address being different than the address in his contact information?
This guys sounds like he didn't expect you to go to these lengths over a missing package. Good for you. I'm glad you're not just giving in and refunding his money. He may be on the up and up and never got the package, but he sure could use some lessons in tact and diplomacy.
We have signs from God because some of us are too stupid to figure things out for ourselves.
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fluffythewondercat
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posted on May 16, 2002 09:36:34 AM
[i]This bidder left 3 more reponses this morning to the fraud. Each one pretty imflameatory in nature. It seems
each on gets worse. [/i]
This is going to seem insensitive but you've got to get with the program:
You know you have a nasty customer.
You suspect he's trying to get something for nothing.
So, why are you even reading this crap? You don't have to and you shouldn't.
I'm serious. Does it help your state of mind to digest every vituperative sentence your abusive buyer spews out? No? Then IGNORE IT!
Don't read it. Create a mail filter and sh!tcan his messages. If you don't know how to do mail filters, just delete his messages unread.
The world will not end. eBay will not suspend you.
But two things WILL happen:
1) As soon as you stop enabling this a$$hole, he'll stop with the abuse.
2) You'll be back in control and once again you'll have a grip on your peace of mind.
I've been on eBay for six years with tens of thousands of transactions under my belt. I know what I'm talking about.
You are never going to "prove" that you are a good, honest seller (which I'm sure you are) by going along with this guy. It's not fair that someone can play you this way, but that's life on eBay.
Look, I have close to 10,000 positives and 91 negatives. That's 60-something people who swear that I am the living embodiment of the Anti-Christ and more than 8,000 who think they got a pretty good deal, thanks very much. I'll settle for that.
Eventually you need to decide for yourself that you can't please everyone and that sometimes it is detrimental to your health and well-being to try.
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