posted on May 15, 2002 10:37:34 AM
OK I think this is my first time posting here on the goodship lollipop but here goes.
I got this guy that bid on and won an auction of mine that recently closed. He paid via paypal and 24hrs later I shipped the item. He's been bugging me about feedback already. He's been on ebay for only one week and is already starting to boss me (and probably others) around about the lousy feedback.
I've got a policy that I won't leave FB until I get it first. I don't know how to diplomatically put it to this guy with the shades, the attitude, and the FB of 1. I saw a very good post here a long time ago about this issue but couldn't find it.
I'd like to know how you handle this situation. So far I've just been politely responding to his emails- answering every question but ignoring the feedback issue.
posted on May 15, 2002 10:50:51 AM
Here's my template, edit as the situation warrants.
Even though the feedback program is completely optional, I always submit feedback after each transaction has been completed. This is usually after your item have been delivered and you have expressed satisfaction by leaving your feedback. Rest assured, I do reciprocate all feedback in a timely manner.
I am confident that you will be pleased with my products and service. I take pride in every transaction conducted on eBay, making sure that your item is shipped both quickly and efficiently. I will also be keeping in constant contact with you until our transaction has been completed successfully and to your satisfaction.
If you have additional questions, please feel free to contact me again.
posted on May 15, 2002 10:55:07 AM
Heres mine.
I do not particapate in the eBay feedback program but as a courtesy I will leave it for those who leave it for me.
posted on May 15, 2002 10:58:01 AM
Ask him if he got the item and is pleased with it. If he is, then leave feedback for him. Is it so important that he leaves feedback first? Heck, you have his money already. In my eyes that's worth positive feedback.
I know there are a lot of sellers who hold feedback until the transaction is complete and that's their policy. Work it out or this guy may express how unsatisfied he is with your overall service over something as insignificant as feedback.
We have signs from God because some of us are too stupid to figure things out for ourselves.
posted on May 15, 2002 02:00:08 PM
If your policy on feedback is in your auction TOS, just send him a link and let him know that you will gladly respond to his feedback in kind.
If it is not listed in your TOS, then I would suggest explaining to him your reasons for withholding feedback.
Nothing a good 'complete' conversation can't cure...
posted on May 15, 2002 02:49:27 PM"I've got a policy that I won't leave FB until I get it first"
I had to chuckle. I have gotten in a habit (as a buyer) of only leaving it for sellers who have left FB for me!
I used to faithfully post FB for sellers, whether they had left if for me or not at the time I received my package and notified them that all was OK.
I noticed more and more sellers where not posting for me even after I posted for them.
So now, I email the seller when my item has arrived and then I wait a few days and if they have posted me FB, I'll then post theirs. If they don't, I don't because I figure it's not big deal to them one way or the other.
In this case, I agree 100% with intercraft if it's in your TOS, just nicely let him know your policy. If it's not in your TOS, then maybe you should consider adding it. Other "newbies" might appreciate knowing up front whether they will receive FB or not, or whether it'll be held hostage. Just kidding...well sorta'.
I leave FB when payment is received unless the buyer has negs/neutrals or FB comments that seem to indicate they are difficult. Then, I mention in my EOA that since I am a believer in good customer service, I don't consider the transaction over until the item has been received, inspected and they are 100% satisfied. I then mention I post FB when notified the item has arrived and everything is OK. I don't hold it hostage by telling them I won't leave it until I have received mine from them. My way serves 2 purposes. First, they will let me know the item has arrived and if their is a problem or not. Secondly, I have not made them feel like I don't trust them to leave me honest FB.
New users are anxious to get to 10 so they can have a star! It took me forever it seemed to get my 1st 10 FB regardless of the fact I had purchased and left FB on more than 20 purchases before 10 unique seller's bothered with leaving me any. Give the guy a break!
posted on May 15, 2002 03:54:25 PM
What's the problem? The buyer paid promply, he deserves feedback. If you don't like his style give him a negative. It's already apparent you are unhappy. Then he can give you the feedback you deserve.
Personally I think he deserves a fast positive for prompt payment. And just why does he have to be happy with the product before he gets feedback? If you send him an inadequately or inaccurately described item, then he obviously won't be happy. IF THE SELLER DOESN'T PERFORM DOES THAT MEAN THE BUYER DOESN'T DESERVE FEEDBACK.
Eyegun, please don't take anything above personally. I assume that you like 99% of eBayers are honest with good intentions. I just think there are too many people with a tit for tat attitude
posted on May 15, 2002 09:23:53 PM
You need to leave feedback first. As a buyer, I watch for sellers that hold feedback hostage and will not bid on their items. If I pay promptly like your buyer did, they have completed their part of the deal. All other steps are sellers steps and feedback will usually follow if you do your part.
posted on May 16, 2002 12:10:46 AM
As in a previous thread about this. I said I leave feedback when I have received payment, packaged the item and mailed it. Once I have mailed it, it is out of my hands. I cannot control what the USPS does with it. I feel my part of the auction is finished. If the buyer never receives the package and I can prove that I mailed it, then it is the USPS problem. I have never received a negative and if I did then there is a section below the negative to answer it.
I take great pains in packaging my items to make sure they are secure in the box, wrapped so they look nice and insert a letter invoice. I never ask for feedback.
posted on May 16, 2002 01:39:35 AM
on May 15, 2002 09:23:53 PM ,
caffeitalia , wrote:
>You need to leave feedback first. As a
>buyer, I watch for sellers that hold
>feedback hostage and will not bid on their
>items. If I pay promptly like your buyer
>did, they have completed their part of the
>deal. All other steps are sellers steps and
>feedback will usually follow if you do your
>part.
RE: the last sentence (ie, sellers steps)...
I look at the deal as a series of events
that occur between two people TAKING TURNS.
I list the item, you bid, I contact when
the auction ends, you send info, I send my
info, you pay, I mail, you leave feedback,
I leave feedback. Of course there might be
further e-mail contact at various points,
but those are the basic events that happen.
However, I always leave feedback! If you
don't leave it for me, then I'm not going
to have the proverbial "Sword of Damocles"
hanging over my head, so I take that into
consideration as (rightly) part of the deal
and leave feedback accordingly.
Z
---
"Cannot say. Saying, I would know. Do not
know, so cannot say". -- Zathras (Babylon 5)
posted on May 16, 2002 01:55:40 AM
As a seller, I am greatful that a buyer has choosen my auction to bid on. If you think of it, there are many, many others that may have similar merchandise as yours. If the buyer has bid, sent the payment, you should be greatful.
I really don't think that it's a good idea to waste all this emotional energy to worry about this newbie bidder. They, like you are wanting to build up their feedback rating. I give positive feedback for anyone that bids on my auctions. I, in turn have received about 65 percent in return. Some people simply may not feel the need to give feedback. I don't battle anyone for it.
If you went to the grocery store, and paid for your items, would you stand in the line and wait for the clerk to say "thank you"?
You might want to try this. Give the Feedback and email the buyer telling them that you appreciate thier business. They might surprise you!
posted on May 16, 2002 08:44:30 AM
If a buyer pays me promptly, I'm over the moon with their customerage. :P
I feedback them because their end of things is complete and because I think they deserve the pat on the back for being an excellent customer.
You are waiting for feedback from the buyer because they are waiting for you to complete your end of things. If you don't leave me feedback thanking me for how quickly I paid you, why on earth should I show you that same courtesy when you ship promptly and the item arrives undamaged?
You deserve to be congratulated first, your risk was greater? How? You've already got my money. I'm sitting over here waiting, trusting that you you'll ship my item.
We have signs from God because some of us are too stupid to figure things out for ourselves.
posted on May 16, 2002 01:47:15 PM
tomwiii: I think you are off subject but I have to admit your comment is absolutely brilliant and shows great thought!
posted on May 16, 2002 02:50:40 PM
As a seller I leave feedback when I get paid. The only time I'd ever consider holding back on feedback is when I suspect there might be some sort of scam going (a pattern of the buyer leaving negs that say "I never got my item" would be a big tipoff that they're up to something.) This has never happened so I have always left feedback immediately!
I realize other opinions may differ but.... to me, leaving feedback is optional, and NEVER part of the bidder's "job," so it could never be the appropriate basis for downgrading the feedback I leave for them. Pay promptly, honor my terms, you get a positive.
posted on May 16, 2002 03:43:46 PM
It's a matter of preference how you choose to handle feedback, but I think it's silly to complain if someone hasn't left you feedback when you haven't left it either, especially if you are the seller and were paid promptly.
We have signs from God because some of us are too stupid to figure things out for ourselves.
posted on May 16, 2002 05:10:07 PM
Something else you may want to consider - if this is truly a newbie, he/she may be trying to build a feedback history. Maybe the buyer wants to sell some items of their own, or maybe he/she is trying to qualify to bid in one of those auctions where they discourage newbies. That feedback is a *lot* more important to newbie than it is to someone that has gained a certain level of reputation. And if that is the case, it certainly sounds like this individual is trying to be a good eBayer.
Just a thought!
PS I see all these discussions about feedback and I wonder - what would you do if a buyer gave you a neg for holding feedback hostage?
posted on May 16, 2002 05:18:30 PM
Yeager:
If you went to the grocery store, and paid for your items, would you stand in the line and wait for the clerk to say "thank you"?
Acording to popular opinion!
The clerk selling the item should never say: Thank You!
Unless the customer who bought the item said: Thank You! First!!
posted on May 16, 2002 06:59:05 PM
I don't really know why the customer would have to say thank you first to the clerk. Is it due to the fact they stayed open for me or what??? In my mind, the seller of any item has an obligation to say thank you first.
Whenever I go to say, Kmart, the clerk always says "Thank You for shopping at Kmart". This happens as soon as I receive my change and/or sale receipt from the cash register.
posted on May 16, 2002 07:37:37 PM
And this courtesy obviously hasn't been enough to keep KMart from getting into deep financial trouble. But I for one don't think that it hurts to be courteous to each and every buyer.
I do however withold feedback occaisionally if a buyer has been particularly troublesome to deal with. Before I post their feedback I want to see what they have to say. I don't know if it helps but so far it seems to have been working out.
DannyG
It's a funny thing about life; if you refuse to accept anything but the best, you very often get it.
W. Somerset Maugham (1874-1965)
posted on May 16, 2002 08:02:36 PMwhat would you do if a buyer gave you a neg for holding feedback hostage?
I got over it.
Yeager, that KMart analogy doesn't work. I always say "thank you." I don't always leave feedback. There's a difference between the two. Even if there weren't I still wouldn't have three hours a week to spend saying "thank you."
It seems to me the contract is as follows: buyer sends payment, seller ships item. Anything else is gravy. My customers get a good value for their money and that's one reason I have been selling successfully on eBay for five years.
posted on May 16, 2002 08:24:56 PM
I haven't left feedback since Vrane started charging for their service. I'm watching the situation develop in a distracted slow-motion-train-wreck fashion; will anyone even notice they didn't get feedback, and if they do, what happens then?
I think the eBay feedback "tools" are lousy and if eBay wants us to promote them by leaving feedback they should make it a whole lot easier to do.
posted on May 16, 2002 08:39:22 PM
I don't advertise it, but I frequently ship items before personal checks clear. Not always ( I have two shipments on hold now)but fequently. However, I do hold up feedback until the check has cleared, as I surely want to give a neg if I get a bad check.
I use the ebay feedback link as I know what feedback has and has not been sent on this.
I will leave feedback once a payment has cleared, whether or not feedback goes to me. In fact, who really has time to worry whether they received feedback? Have confidence in yourself and your product. The ony time I meight recosider this rule was if I sold items that have frequent returns, the type items that teenagers buy.
posted on May 18, 2002 07:14:03 PM
I got this email yesterday. Buyers who complain about feedback extortion read carefully. If I don't give this bidder positive feedback, he will leave negative feedback:
*********************
Third request for feedback
XXXXX,
Thank you for the e-mail. When I bid on your auction, there was NOTHING in you description about you refusing to leave feedback unless you recieved it first. If you want your policy on feedback to be known by everyone EXCEPT the winning bidder, then put it in your description for the world to see.
I have taken it on the chin to long now, from sellers that are refusing to leave earned feedback for their buyers, even after making FAST payments to them. What are they afraid of ? They got their money fast. What more can a buyer do to recieve their earned feedback as fast as they make their payment ??
I have a list started , of sellers that will not give me my feedback as I earn it, by me making fast payments. They insist on holding my feedback hostage, UNLESS I give them positive feedback FIRST.
These sellers are in for a rude awakening when they recieve a NEGATIVE or NEUTRAL feedback from me for their " self preservation " policy.
I know the rules of this feedback game, and I know very well how to play it. The reciepients are not going to be happy, but you have to admit, I do put my policy right up front, and I am giving these select sellers ample time to leave me my feedback.
I wish you well in your decision to grant my request to leave feedback for me, even if you feel I deserve a NEGATIVE for my making fast payment to you.
posted on May 18, 2002 07:22:14 PM
Unless he is right and your auction did not state your feedback policy, then he's well within his rights to leave you a negative. He's evaluating you as a seller. He had three jobs as a bidder: 1) to abide by the terms of your auction, 2) to communicate with you promptly following the auction, and 3) to pay you for the auction, per your terms.
If you state your terms for feedback, this is a threat and should be forwarded to eBay immediately. Feedback extortion is against eBay's TOS.
~*~
We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars. ~Oscar Wilde
posted on May 18, 2002 07:41:21 PM
Actually, as I read it, he's going to leave you negative feedback for holding your feedback hostage. He doesn't say your feedback has to be positive.
While I could see some merit to the argument that the transaction isn't over until you've had a chance to correct any dis-satisfaction that may have occurred, the buyer has still completed their part of the transaction first. In any of the corresondence, has the buyer said anything about his/her satisfaction with the item itself? Has it even arrived yet? Have you tried a middle ground of "I don't leave feedback until I'm sure you've received your item in satisfactory condition"? Still border line hostage, but could be justified by a desire to fulfil a "satisfaction guarenteed" policy (do you have one?).
I suppose the ideal solution would be for eBay to hide feedback until both parties have submitted their feedback. Anyone wanting feedback would have to leave feedback. No one could "retaliate" because they wouldn't have anything to retaliate for. But I digress. Seller deserves positive for fast pay and negative for attitude (especially if he was bugging you within a day or two), leave the twit a neutral, something like "fast pay, but demands feedback from seller first" and let it go. Any seller that refuses to give feedback first can just dump his bids in the future.
posted on May 18, 2002 07:52:41 PM
Dennis, thats a great reply. I will have to keep that in mind, but I always leave feedback first so I will never have to do that. There are alot of buyers that never leave feed back at all. I have a buyer that pays promptly, I ship next day and I have never had a feedback from her, but she does have at least 200 bids that she makes in a week so I think that she doesn't leave it for anyone as she doesn't have time.
I think feedback tells nothing about anything. I never read feedback on any of my buyers so I never know if there is a problem. The only time I read it is if I have to file for a NPB, then I see the problems.
posted on May 18, 2002 08:06:42 PM
Dennis, your "middle of the road" response sounds about right. Usually when I receive a threat from a buyer, I leave NEGATIVE feedback immediately. But in this case, I did offer the guy "one more chance." I got an email from him today and he has pretty much lost the attitude.
I find it ironic that his feedback to me depends on something that is not part of the transaction proper. Of course, he can leave feedback based on anything, even the lunar tides. That's his right. But if he's hoping to get positive feedback, then writing to me about his "list of sellers who are in for a big surprise" probably isn't the best way to go about it.
