posted on May 21, 2002 01:10:12 PM
How many negatives until a seller is put off Ebay? This seller has four negs in six months for the same thing. Misrepresenting condition and when you object, they immediately PayPal you a tiny token refund with no negotiations and no complete refunds. I wanted a refund. I can't use chipped and flawed merchandise. Her reasoning that she doesn't have to refund is that "she is not a mail order business and cannot afford to refund". Huh? Do people only get put off when there are NPB's filed?
posted on May 21, 2002 08:36:26 PM
Make sure you tell this seller that the item was completely misrespresented and that a full refund is due. You may be required to send the item back. Then make it clear that if nothing happens, you will be giving a negative feedback and turn them into Ebay for selling a misrepresented item. If they do nothing, follow through then move on.
Good luck
You sent her money and she shipped your item to you. That, by definition, is a mail order business. "Can't Afford To Refund" is not your problem.
The previous poster is also correct. -4 feedbacks will do it. It's actually very hard for even a crappy seller to get thrown off eBay. For example, I have 800 positive feedbacks. In theory at least, I can rip off over 804 people before they kill my account.
In reality, if eBay gets enough complaints, they wouldn't wait that long. But if left completely to eBays automation, this is the way it works.
posted on May 22, 2002 10:29:55 AM
Actually, the feedback rating must drop to -4 or lower AND somebody must report it to ebay.
Replaymedia is correct, sellers can get suspended if there's enough complaints. Mrspock also has a point - 4 negs over a six month period is relative to the amount of positive feedback that they accumulated.
The issue is, if four other people complained that this person misrepresented the merchandise, then either don't bid or bid knowing that this seller is a risk. The seller's feedback should be checked prior to bidding, not after winning the auction.
posted on May 23, 2002 12:55:35 PM
I HAVE 840 POS. NOW 13 NEGS. ALL FROM IDIOTS OF COURSE. IT'S THE AMOUNT OF FEE RETURNS THAT A BUYER CREATES THAT GETS THEM CANNED. 4? CAUSE I WAS THE FORTH EVIDENTLY TO JUMP THROUGH THE E BAY HOOPS AND GET MY REFUND. THEN LIKE MAGIC AND IT WAS SO COOL THE BUYERS PAGE WENT POOF! NARUED...HAHHAHAHAH.
THEN THE IDIOT E MAILS ME AFTER A MONTH AND WANTS ME TO ACCEPT HIS PAYMENT. HAHAHHAHA. TO HELP HIM GET BACK ON E BAY. HAHAHHAA. THIS WILL SHOW YOU HIS ,,,,,,,,LACK OF MENTALLITY.
"HEY, YOU SAID TO JUST TO FERGET ABOT THE DEAL THEN YOU WENT AND TURNED ME INTO E MAY. SEND ME YER ADDRESS SO I CAN GET MY E MAY BAC." IDIOT!!!!. I DID WRITE HIM AN E MAIL.......HAHHAHAH. I CAN'T WRITE IT HERE. HAHAHHAHAH. A REAL PITA.
posted on May 23, 2002 05:10:42 PM
She had 219 positives in the same time period that she received the 4 negs. Which might sound good, but when you look at the gist of the 4 negatives, they were for the same thing, mispresenting merchandise and little if any compensation. She will not refund. Period.
"I am not going to pay anything towards the shipping and I do not want the mugs back. It looks like you have eBayed enough to know that it is not a mail order. It is an auction and sales are final. I am not a business as you apparently are. I do not have the means to be refunding and accepting returns. That is costly. I am accepting what you said in good faith. That is why I refunded the $12 but I see no reason to be out the expense of paying shipping and then you returning the mugs and being out the expense of that freight too. You have 3 mugs that are in fine condition. If your customer no longer wants them, that is hardly a reason to want to return them to me.
I'm sorry for the problem and the confusion. I have tried to make it right with you.
Have a great day!"
She is "accepting what you say in good faith". Heck! I took digital pictures and immediately emailed them to her. There is no question they are her mugs. I had a consignor here when I opened the box besides. She refunded me $12 off the top of her head. I wanted a complete refund. I can't use damaged goods at any price.
"If your customer no longer wants them, that is hardly a reason to want to return them to me". Of course it is!! My customer asked me to find her four soup mugs in perfect condition. They were stated as perfect in her description. There is no recourse at all in these situations other than a negative. Safe Harbor is a joke. I would have to pay them another $20 to take the case and I would be out further money. My hands are tied on this!
posted on May 23, 2002 06:44:09 PM
"Ban her?" No, but I think she should be suspended temporarily. I think with four people in six months brave enough to neg her there are a dozen more in the wings afraid of a retaliatory negative. The negs are all of the same nature. Undisclosed damage. She contradicts herself in her terms:
"This is a set of XXXXXXXXXXXX Large Soup Mugs in the Sunflower Yellow Glaze (yellow with brown specks). My reference says this glaze was used from 1958-1960. They are so bright and cheerful. They each measure 5" in diameter w/o handle and 2 1/2" deep. Would hold a lot of soup! All in excellent condition.
Thanks for looking!!
We are not experts on anything. We simply sell items we have found locally at estate sales, etc... So please do not assume anything about our merchandise other than what is stated.
* Please email with questions or concerns before bidding. All Sales Are Final.
* Merchandise is sold in "as-is" condition with no guarantees other than those in description
* A handling charge is included in the cost of shipping to cover shipping expenses. We ship PRIORITY MAIL unless otherwise stated. Shipping cost for this auction is$8.50 Insurance is extra.
* Whenever possible, we will be glad to combine auctions to save on shipping.
* International customers pay a handling fee. International shipping costs will be quoted at end of auction. We ship international airmail only."
First she says "excellent condition" then she says "sold in "as-is condition with no guarantees other than those in description."
The only pictures she gives are shots of pristine soup cups. She doesn't show the five chips on the bottom of one and the burst glaze bubble on the inside of the other that has taken on a brown stain.
Yes, I say suspend her until she cleans up her act. 6 months to think about it sounds good to me.
posted on May 23, 2002 08:10:24 PM
4 negs out of over 200+ sales. Not a great record, but a 98% approval rating. Agreed, she should refund, but I also sit a bit on her side. I have over a 1000+'s and 3 negs and 5 neutrals.
It is a two way street out there. Let me tell you, I have had many scammers try to hit at me (with over 3000 sales). I sell model kits. I have parts "shown in the picture" that scammers claim are not in the kit when they receive them, even though the parts are clearly there and the kit was sealed seconds after I took the picture. I have received back collector kits that are not the same ones I sent (I put a secret mark on every one of them, the kits I receive back do not have the mark and do not look like the kit in the picture). Let me tell you, there are lots of scammers now in the buyer market.
I even had a guy open a SEALED 1963 kit, write and tell me that the decals are missing and really expects me to refund his money or replace the decals 1963!!!!!KIT, he OPENED a 1963 collector kit. What do you do with such a..#$#$#% H..#%^^? I do NOT back up errors by manufacturers mistakes on new factory sealed kits. Sorry, I now have a policy that is stated in my ad that I an only I determine IF a refund or anything else will be done.
I have had to many "chipped cups" that left my place of business in new condition to arrive "damaged". I will no longer be scammed. I regret that at some point, I may deny a legitimate claim like an occational person is wrongly convicted of a crime, but I have to go with my best instincts. I could see me getting 4 negs in 6 months dealing with scammers, who if on a 1,000,000 odds get caught, just sign up under a new name, while I lose my 3 years invested getting a good name with ebay customers.
I think that sellers should be able to approve the bidders before the deal is considered "good". As a bidder gets to look at ME as a seller first, I should be able to read the feedback of a buyer before I accept them!
posted on May 23, 2002 08:16:32 PM
Don, I am tooterville on Ebay. You may look at my feedback. I sell a lot more than I buy on Ebay, but I also buy more than I should. She packed the soup cups extremely well. This damage didn't occurr in the mail. I think she got away with it before and thought she would get away with it again. Which she has.
I am sorry if I came off as thinking you were trying to scam. I was just trying to give you the buyers perspective and MAYBE the real reason she fails to refund, though it may not be in her case. I was just sharing my experiences, not making an reference at all to your particular situation. I do not know you, but because you have came here for answers, I believe you are a fair and good person.
If you read my new post on a new topic of discussion, I go into the right of the seller to approve the bidder before a deal can be completed.
It is a way to at least give us sellers some protection from buyers BEFORE they become capable of giving us bad feedback.
I believe that 99.95% of ebayers are clean and good people, but that .05% can destroy it for all of us.
How about posting on my new topic. Yours would be a great perspective
posted on May 24, 2002 06:40:32 PM
Kasue writes: She contradicts herself in her terms:..
First she says "excellent condition" then she says "sold in "as-is condition with no guarantees other than those in description."
These are certainly not contradictory statements. One describes condition, though vaguely, and the other defines a term of sale. While I question your seller’s commitment to customer satisfaction, I think you share some fault. “Excellent condition” can mean almost anything and it’s impossible to know what the seller meant. You seem to think it meant no cracks but perhaps she was describing suitably for use. With such a vague description, and knowing how important the specific condition was to you, you should have asked. Had the seller stated no chips, cracks, or repairs – or had you asked in advance, you’d have a leg to stand on.
I can’t believe anyone would buy from someone who says, in effect, “I won’t provide an accurate description or accurate photos and won’t accept returns.” I won’t buy from someone who tries to put the ball in my court. If I have specific questions, concerns, or requirements about an item, I always ask in advance.
BTW, with over 200 feedbacks, she is in the mail order business and should know to photograph and describe items accurately. I would return your money simply because you’re dissatisfied.
[ edited by artnouveau on May 24, 2002 06:41 PM ]
[ edited by artnouveau on May 24, 2002 06:41 PM ]
posted on May 24, 2002 07:08:20 PM
Artnouveau: My little dictionary says, "excellent: outstandingly good of its kind; of exceptional merit". She says, "excellent condition". Chips and serious flaws are never considered a plus or "outstandingly good of its kind."
posted on May 24, 2002 07:11:54 PM
Safe Harbor charges $20 to file a complaint. I thought about PayPal, but by the time I received the soups it had been a little over two weeks. I think you have to file with PayPal in 14 days. Doesn't Ebay's insurance start with $200 anyway?
posted on May 24, 2002 07:32:31 PM
I think you are confusing safe harbor with square trade
Safe harbor is there to investigate problems such as fraud
square trade if there to try to mediate disputes
In my opion what she has done is fraud in that she says excellent condtion
ebay insurance covers between 25 min up to 200 max
I would file ebay insurance and fraud becouse that will get ebays attention and sellers do get suspended if ebay has to pay
Im not sure about pay pal but I would sure try ....
Se will find out real quick that she is in fact running a mail order business .....
spock here......
Live long and Prosper
posted on May 25, 2002 04:07:59 AM
Paypal will not do anything on a quality of issue dispute. Only if the items did not arrive.
Looking at her terms and conditions, she states excellent condition, which is not the same as perfect condition. And she states that all sales are final.
When you look at her other auctions, on one item, she states that there are no cracks or scatches. Give her the neg, report her to safe harbor, but I really do not think they will do anything to her. Right now, she has over 600 positives and 4 negs.
[ edited by thchaser200 on May 25, 2002 04:08 AM ]
posted on May 25, 2002 06:23:48 AM
As a seller, I think more than half of negative feedbacks are irrelevant, especially they were from Newbie, lack of Ebay experience. Most of my Negs are from AS IS/No Warranty items.
posted on May 25, 2002 10:34:30 AM
Let me see if I understand this.
The purchase was 4 mugs. One arrived chipped. The seller made you a partial refund of $12.00 and said you could keep the whole lot. You want to return it all for a full refund including shipping both ways.
I think you are being unreasonable with your no-compromise suspend-this-person-NOW approach. If you don't want to deal with the vagaries of eBay sellers, you might be better off shopping in the real world. Of course, you'll pay more there.
posted on May 25, 2002 11:31:29 AM
I will make one more comment and then I am dropping the subject. I expect Ebay sellers to treat me the same way I treat them. If you look at my auctions, you will see I supply plenty of pictures (one auction right now even has seven pictures). I give lots of details. A partial refund is of no interest to me. I needed "excellent condition" for my customer. I was paying a premium for the soup cups. Plus I paid more shipping than I needed to because two of the soups should never have been sent to me in the condition that they were. People on Ebay need to be responsible for what they sell. They are in "THE REAL WORLD". It was REAL money I sent her.
posted on May 25, 2002 01:07:58 PM
Excellent condition does not equal "perfect" condition. To me excellent means that the item is not perfect, but the flaws are so minor to be unnoticeable. Perfect condition means that there are no chips, cracks, crazing, or faded paint or glaze, among other flaws that are inherent with pottery or glass.
If you were looking for perfect merchandise and the description doesn't describe it as such, then the burden is on you to ask before you bid.
It does appear she withheld information that would have affected the outcome of the final bid price, but she was clever enough to put disclaimers in her description, thereby placing the burden of obtaining more information on the buyer.
Sorry, but I think you need to count this as a lesson and move on. Be glad that she refunded any portion of your money. I think it sucks how she ran this auction, however, you share part of the blame in the transaction for not asking questions first.
~*~
We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars. ~Oscar Wilde
posted on May 25, 2002 05:50:01 PM
[i]I expect Ebay sellers to treat me the same
way I treat them. If you look at my auctions, you will see I supply plenty of pictures (one auction right now even
has seven pictures). I give lots of details. [/i]
Ah. I see now. The problem was with your expectations.
Unless you are emailing every seller whose items you might bid on and telling them to look at your auctions because that's how you expect to be treated by them, your expectations are unrealistic and unstated.
I have no doubt that you are an excellent seller. But if you bid on my auctions, I'll be following my selling standards, not yours. That seems fair to me.
posted on May 26, 2002 05:50:09 PM
Quibble all you want. Excellent condition does mean there are no chips, cracks, or serious flaws. To call anything "excellent" when it is with a chip, crack, or serious flaw is dishonest by most people's standards. I have NEVER read an ad on Ebay that claimed "perfect" condition. To call anything "perfect" just sets yourself up for trouble. I think some people here just like to argue for the sake of arguing.
posted on May 29, 2002 07:39:02 AM
When a "jerk/#*!@" hits you with a negative that is not "justified". Ask for "help" from a "court" in your area. Sue Ebay and the other person. Then the court will decide what is "fair". It works since most "jerks/bitches" don't want to "present" their reasons for a "negative" when a "positive" should have been entered. PS: Most court employees, including the judge, have experienced eBay!
posted on May 29, 2002 08:11:36 AM
MIB mint in box is the condition which is flawless,other terms such as excellent,good,very good,fairly good,not bad,okay are all subjective.
i buy from one seller who always said NO PROBLEM THERE,and it turns out it is no problem,i never have to return any of his items.
so for this seller,no problem means no chip,no flaw,just good used item.
you have your 12 dollars refund,so take that refund and move on,i would just leave a neutral.
posted on May 29, 2002 08:14:00 AM
REPO4SALE. I AM GONNA BELIEVE THAT WAS GOOD HUMOR. SUE EVERYONE. HAHAHHAHA. FOR A NEGATIVE?????????? HAHAHHAHAHA. YOU HAVE POSTED HERE 6 TIMES? YOU ARE A PARALEGAL? THIS IS YOUR LEGAL ADVICE? HAVE A GREAT DAY. AS I WALK OFF INTO THE SUNSET,,,,,,,,,,HAHAHHAHA. HAHAHHAHA. HAHAHHAHA.
[ edited by JACKSWEBB on May 29, 2002 08:15 AM ]
posted on May 29, 2002 02:41:17 PM
I am mostly siding with kasue on this one. There are two phrases in her description that work together:
"in excellent condition" and "Merchandise is sold in "as-is" condition with no guarantees other than those in description."
That means "no guarantees other than the merchandise is in excellent condition."
When stoneware is chipped, it may still be in "usable" condition. It may be in "decent" or "good" condition. But it's a real stretch to say it's in "excellent" condition. The rest of the description makes it sound as if this seller has an inkling of what she's talking about (she used the glaze to narrow the mugs' age down to a two-year span!) so kasue relied on her apparent expertise. Now the seller is crying ignorance. It's disingenous and bad business, especially with items that the seller OBVIOUSLY knows are collectors' items. (If they were just meant to hold soup, who cares how old they are?)
On the other hand.... knowing that you needed a set of four perfect mugs, and having her feedback available, I would have seriously considered dropping her a question pre-bid, explaining that they HAD to be perfect, and asking her to seriously assess the condition of the mugs. That gives you the chance to get a definitive answer to the question "Are they chipped?" rather than relying on the assumption that the words "excellent condition" meant "not chipped." After all, you don't need a degree in mugology to determine whether or not something's chipped.
Overall, though, I'd have to say I'd be mad too.
[ edited by msincognito on May 29, 2002 02:43 PM ]
