posted on June 13, 2002 06:07:00 AM
I won an auction, and paid for it with paypal - I declined insurance.
Seller said she shipped it, but two weeks now, and it's not here. Seller can not provide proof she shipped it - said she didn't get delivery confirmation, and didn't keep her reciept at the post office. I would have been happy with a copy of her reciept showing a package was sent on the date she said with her zip and my zip and the approx. weight of my package (it's fairly heavy) She said it was shipped priority.
She claims that since I did not buy insurance I have no recourse.
posted on June 13, 2002 06:23:35 AM
hmm sounds kind of like what happened to me. its been over a month since i paid for the final auction and have received nothing. i was sent a dc # but then was later told the po never scanned it. she has no receipt either. i paid for insurance but of course unless the seller actually bought insurance it does me no good.
as for your question, you have no recourse thru the po but if you really feel you are being led on id file with paypal. do it soon also. i sadly let her stall me with excuses so long it was to late for me. you only have 30 days from the date you paid.
posted on June 13, 2002 06:25:04 AM
not at all file a complaint with paypal that you have not received the goods yet and as she is unable to provide proof of shipment paypal will automatically refund the money..... she should know better to spend the 40cents on DC.
First of all... even with priority mail, two-weeks is not all that long to be waiting for a package. They can easily take up to 30 days to arrive. You have at least two options available to you in this situation:
1) Have the seller file a form 1540 (Mail loss/rifling report) with the post office. This form may help locate your package if it was shipped. However, you MUST wait 30 days before filing this form.
2) By not having proof-of-delivery, the seller is in violation of Paypal user terms. If you file a claim with Paypal, you most likely will get your money back.
posted on June 13, 2002 08:22:59 AM
Requiring a buyer to have insurance is BS! The shipper/seller is the one that is responsible for the shipment to the customer. Insurance is only for the seller. File a claim with Paypal and you will get your money back.
posted on June 13, 2002 08:35:40 AM
I received a PP refund for non-delivery. Many weeks (over a month) later I actually got the item. I Paypal'd the $ back to her with a little extra (as a non-auction item)and still ended everything on a friendly basis.
I filed for the refund because she wasn't communicating with me. I needed to file with PP before 30 days were up.
You can send her the $$ back if the item shows up later. If she can't product proof of shipment or is ignoring you, then file before the 30 day limit.
posted on June 13, 2002 08:42:53 AM
Sellers who use this "I'm not responsible" line drive me nuts. Say this seller ordered something through the mail, from Sears, for example, and she never got it. She would demand that Sears give her money back or send another item. She certainly wouldn't let Sears say, "We sent it, tough luck if you didn't get it." This is no different.
I'm sorry.... but there IS a time when the bidder has to start taking responsibilities for THEIR actions. dthmj clearly states that he/she chose to decline insurance. This was likely done to save on total s/h costs. You can't have it both ways. You either pay extra $$ to ensure your safe delivery of your package, or you save some money and gamble. A seller has every right to let the bidder decide which choice they want. Sears simply does not make this choice available to the bidder. They charge a set rate, with no negotiation, that includes insurance.
On a side note.... notice how frustrating working with Paypal AND the USPS is! (which is why I don't use Paypal!) Paypal insists that you must file complaints within 30 days. The USPS insists you WAIT 30 days before filing a complaint. Don't you wish these companies would take into consideration each others terms when developing their own?
posted on June 13, 2002 09:08:38 AM
ebay sellers work on small margin and many sellers let the buyers decide if they want to pay extra for insurance,which is now 1.10 for 50 dollars and soon to be more!!
some sellers charge enough shipping and handling to include insurance.
but dc is another matter,if sellers want paypal seller protection,that 40 cents is part of her cost of doing business/
i ship many small items in a box first class usps with no insurance and no dc and i dont recall any of them get lost or not delivered.
i dont buy this story of taking 30 days to receive a usps priority box,i would go ahead and file complaint with paypal before that 30 days deadline.
unless seller is shipping media mail which could take 14 days or more.
posted on June 13, 2002 09:20:16 AM
I ship 99 % of my sales via Priority Mail INSURED. I clearly state this in my TOS. This is a 2 way street as far as I am concerned. I sell primarily fragile items & do my utmost to pack them securely against breakage, but it happens. This way neither the buyer nor I are out. I have never had a Priority Mail delivery that was over 5 days, except right after the 9-11 disaster. In fact I sent one to NC (from CA)on Sat. AM & the buyer had it on Monday!!
[ edited by sanmar on Jun 13, 2002 09:21 AM ]
The shipper/seller is the one that is responsible for the shipment to the customer.
I respectfully disagree. Once the package is in the hands of the Post Office the seller has no control over what they do with it.
I personally think that the post office should take responsibility for their own actions and stop making people pay for their incompetence. Insurance should be included in the price of postage. Especially with the new rates coming up.
pelorus
If Ebay sellers were as big as Sears they wouldn't have to worry about who is responsible for lost packages. I would venture a guess that a lot of Ebay sellers are attempting to stay one step ahead of the bill collectors.
Edited to add: We've shipped thousands of packages and have only had 1 lost package. Although some priority packages have taken as long as 2-5 weeks to reach their destination.
posted on June 13, 2002 09:41:15 AM
It seems to me that if the seller is running such a sloppy operation that they have no proof of mailing i.e. a recipt for postage with zip code or similar - then they are on the line for the missing item.
In my experience, Priority Mail has never taken more than a week, usually is 3 days max. It may take longer than that but it is a rare occurance.
Paypal only requires a delivery confirmation on small ticket items as proof of delivery. Since it is free online from USPS.com, I do not understand why any seller does not use it.
The sloppy recordkeeping of the seller could also indicate sloppy packing and shipping, and I would not be surprised if the item was sent media mail while the buyer paid for priority. It happens all the time by sloppy sellers who greedily pocket the extra bucks.
posted on June 13, 2002 09:48:56 AM
eauctionmgt, et al.:
Tell me something. If you ordered *anything* through the mail and didn't receive it, wouldn't you demand that the seller make things right? You would be outraged if the seller said tough luck. You wouldn't care if it was a big company or a private individual "trying to keep one step ahead of the bill collector." Well, as an ebay seller the shoe is on the other foot.
IMHO the responsibility of the seller is do make the customer satisfied, not to put a box in the mail. This talk of the buyer having to take responsibility for the USPS performance is hooey. It's part of the deterioration in customer service that is plaguing this country.
I deal with a mail order company that offers insurance as an option for buyers. If you take insurance, they send out a replacement same day. If you don't get insurance, they still send a replacement, but you have to wait until a trace is done.
posted on June 13, 2002 10:03:05 AM
lithus,
free usps dc is for priority mail only,unless they have changed the rules.
in fact i cant have dc with my first class package even if i pay as it is under a certain weight,too light for the scanner to scan it at the destination,thats what i was told by eager usps clerk who wished i would switch to usps priority.
pelorus.
i agree with you a good seller should make an effort to trace the package and try to remedy the situation by either sending out a replacement or refund.
or work with the buyer to see if it could be somewhere else like neighbor,local post office or leasing office etc.
but then there are buyers who would just say they dont have it while it is sitting on the living room couch!!
I don't personally worry about who is responsible because so few packages are lost. I did refund for the one lost package we had a couple of years ago.
I will restate however, that it should be the responsibility of the post office to make delivery (you are paying them to deliver the package).
marcn
You are probably right about that. I don't know for sure.
Sorry... but I do take responsibility for my own actions. I am a bidder as well as a high-volume seller. I have purchased items before where insurance was an option, and I declined. I did have an occassion where the item was shipped, but lost in the mail. I waited patiently for the 30 day waiting period the USPS has to expire, then I had the seller do everything he could (fill out the 1540 form). I NEVER once asked for my money back. It was MY choice not to have insurance on the package, and it was MY loss. I couldn't possibly justify making the seller (who was very willing to help) lose money due to my negligence. I would hope that there are other ethical people in the world that would share my opinion.
posted on June 13, 2002 10:32:01 AM
My last words on this subject:
I self-insure, since the % of packages lost by the USPS is so low that I would lose money by paying the USPS for insurance. And I hate it as a buyer charges extra for insurance or makes it mandatory.
eauctionmgt: You are a very considerate person to take that stance as a buyer. I hope I am being just as considerate by always giving a replacement or refund.
I don't want to contribute to the deterioration of customer service in this country by giving buyers a hard time about this issue.
posted on June 13, 2002 11:35:31 AM
For those who compare Ebay sellers to mail order companies, maybe you should take a look at the shipping and handling charges these guys charge.
They cover insurance alright and about $3.00 to $5.00 an item above that -- it's called Handling charges on the shipping options and NO ONE complains. Most charge on total cost of shipment, not weight, so a $50.00 gown weighing less than 1 pound will cost the same thing as a $26.00 bedspread weighing 4 pounds.
But you let anyone charge a quarter more than the actual post office sticker shows on an Ebay package and everyone is up in arms (some for even a quarter).
[ edited by lindajean on Jun 13, 2002 11:37 AM ]
posted on June 13, 2002 12:06:27 PM
lindajean: It's not that no one ever complains about mail order s/h; it's that we never hear it. I'll bet the phone order takers get an earful.
Let's face it, folks. People complain about quarters because they can. If there's one thing the Internet and eBay have shown us, it's that the world is full of whiny fools.
marcn: Your statement is not necessarily accurate. It depends on the terms of the auction. We ship Freight On Board, which means when we consign it to the shipper, it's sayonara, baby! At that point it's the buyer's responsibility.
posted on June 13, 2002 12:33:36 PM
pelorus Sellers who use this "I'm not responsible" line drive me nuts. Say this seller ordered something through the mail, from Sears, for example, and she never got it. She would demand that Sears give her money back or send another item. She certainly wouldn't let Sears say, "We sent it, tough luck if you didn't get it." This is no different
In my opinion, it is different. Sears can "afford" to pay refund or to reship. I can't. It is a parttime job for me. Sears is a BIG store, I am not.
As long as I can prove that I shipped and I packed the widget as a reasonable person would, the responsibility isn't on my shoulders.
posted on June 13, 2002 01:02:37 PM
You folks watch out for me. If I buy something from you and I don't get it in the mail, I am filing for a Paypal refund. If you are honest, you will admit that you would do the same (except for eauctionmgt). And I don't care if you gave me the option of insurance. And PP will give me my money back.
If you bid on an auction that in the terms of sale stated:
Seller is not responsible for lost or damaged items which are uninsured. It is the full responsibility of the buyer to request and pay additional charges for all insurance.
And you did not request insurance from the seller.... would you still feel the seller was to blame if you did not receive the item?
Personally... those are my terms when selling merhcandise. I sell primarily low-end merchandise, and to add insurance would add an additional 10-15% in cost to the purchase price. I do NOT accept Paypal. One of the multitude of reasons why I do not is because it IS too easy for people to just say they didn't receive an item and then get their money back from Paypal.
Bottom line, is my method works for me. It keeps my overall costs down, makes lots of bidders happy because my prices are lower, and in thousands of transactions over 4 years I've received only one negative feedback in regards to a lost package that was not received.
I do also agree that customer service IS very necessary. If an item is lost and the item was not insured, I will do everything I can to help the bidder. I will file the form 1540 to help them search for the package.
Another thing I will do if an item is lost is put the profit I made on their original purchase toward the price of a replacement item. For example, if they bought a widget for $5.00, that I paid $3.00 for, then after fees I would have made about $1.50 profit. I would tell them that I could offer them another widget for $1.50 + postage (while I do charge s/h fees normally, in cases like this I try to keep the cost as low as possible). Most of my customers in this situation have found it to be a very fair and effective resolution.... especially when my terms clearly show I am not obliged to make this extra effort.
I am a very reasonable seller. I do not think that it is fair for a customer to be out of an item that they paid for. However, it is likewise not fair for me to be out of an item AND the money for it when the bidder chose to have it shipped cheaper, rather than insured. I try to treat my bidders as intelligent human beings who can make reasonable choices.
posted on June 13, 2002 02:06:43 PM
. "Insurance is only for the seller"
Not true I buy insurance all the time. it
keeps seller honest (If needbe).
It gives me many option more if something goes wrong, which once in a while it does.
posted on June 13, 2002 04:03:29 PM
Actually pelorus, if you decline insurance and I ship to you with delivery confirmation, then you don't have a recourse if you pay with paypal, they only need to see proof of shipping from the seller.
I've been on both sides of this issue as well. On more expensive items, I will give the buyer no choice about insurance. If it is not that expensive (i.e. under $40) then it is up to them. I've had people insure a $5 package, and that makes no sense to me at all. These are probably the same people who get the extended warrantee on a $20 item, and pay $20 for the warrantee..
posted on June 13, 2002 04:32:01 PM
sears does not send their employees to stand in line at post office,it uses fed exp or ups.
employees are paid to work,not stand in line all day at the post office.
posted on June 13, 2002 05:49:14 PM
insurance is for the buyer AND seller,
if the item gets damaged or lost
and you dont have insurance, you are out of luck
how can you expect the seller to pay for the damage/ replacemet?
once Post office takes the box from my hands I really have NO controll over what happens.
truck can tipp over, package can get lost, car might run over it and break/damage what ever is inside,
if it's insured we can file for claim and get your money back.
when I buy something ($5.00 fake pony tail in past few days, I asked to have that insured too,even $5.00 is still money)
I sell everything above $50.00
and 95 % is in the $100.00 + range and I will simple not take any responsibilty for any loss / damage, insurance IS required.
if the buyer denies they have to send me email stating that they understand that I can not be held responsible for it.
I'm not planing to go to small claims court anytime soon
(so far only two buyers requested it that way since '99 )
on the other hand I think dc is a waist of money, it only prooves that the package was delivered, if the post office looses it before they can deliver it, they will not give you any money back...
but everything depends on what you sell or buy, but I work hard for my money, so I insure everything I buy.
[ edited by eauctionmgnt on Jun 13, 2002 12:18 PM ]