posted on June 13, 2002 01:10:30 PM
Hello eBay sellers... I need a bit of advice here.
I've been selling on eBay for a couple of years and have more than 200 positive feedbacks (only 2 negatives).
I received a fraud complaint today filed by a buyer who I have been communicating with throughout the transaction. This buyer bought a $15 item from me several weeks ago and mailed me a check immediately. I confirmed the payment, confirmed the order and sent email asking for size info (was a ring). I also sent email with some specific questions that needed to be answered before I could process her order. Never got a response. Never got a returned email for a bad address.
Weeks later the buyer called me and left a message that she hadn't heard anything from me and where was her ring?? Same day I got an email so I responded to the email in detail. No answer.
Few days later - angry email saying I was avoiding her. Reponded with copy of every email I'd sent from day one.
Okay... Here's the thing. I should have called her on the phone, but can't go back now. She swears she was not getting any of my email although it never returned to me and was going to the same address that was on the emails she sent me and that was registered with ebay.
She filed the complaint today saying I never contacted her. I called her and she swears I've never contacted her. I'm printing all the emails and snail mailing them to her along with a refund.
I've never gone thru a complaint with ebay before. What should I do? I responded on their form with my side of the story and that I'd spoken with her and am sending a refund. Should I do anything else? Should I include in the form the copies of all the emails I've sent to her?
Who sees these complaints? Do they stay on a form that other potential buyers can see - like feedback does? If so then I'd like to have those emails on record.
This is a situation where both the buyer and I are a bit right and wrong. I did my best to communicate with her and there's obviously something wrong on her end with her email. At the same time I should have gone a step further and called her. But now that I'm at this point I want to handle this situation in a way that will reduce any potential risk or negative impression for my auction business going forward.
Any sellers out there been thru this? What's the process? What do you think I should do? Any and all experiences, thoughts and advice will be deeply appreciated!
posted on June 13, 2002 04:32:55 PM
Oops, I mis read the post. I thought you sent the ring. Now that I re-read the post, I see you were waiting for a response to get her ring size.
Since she filed the complaint and forwarded all of your e-mails, that proves she was getting them and you did nothing wrong. I would send a refund less listing fees. Then file a NPB against her. I was going to say to fill out the form from ebay truthfully, but you already did that. You did nothing wrong. If she cannot follow the terms of the auction, that is not your fault. I think she has bidders remorse and is trying to pin it on you. After the 10 waiting period, if she does not respond properly, file FVF and neg her.
It also just occurred to me that you said that you e-mailed her when the payment arrived. Then how did she know to call and say, "Where is my ring" if she didn't know if the payment had been received.
Good luck
posted on June 13, 2002 05:48:06 PM
When reading this thread I am deciding very seriously to use the service that Microsoft Outlook express has that asks for: Request a read receipt for every message sent. I think that has to be done. What are your thoughts on this. I know it will clog up your mail box, but I would rather have a cloged up mailbox than a mess. I have a buyer now that uses it and I can see the advantages of this as a seller to make sure that your WBN gets to your buyer. I guess as sellers we have to do everything except backward sommersaults and maybe someday it will come to that.
posted on June 13, 2002 05:59:08 PM
As someone who has had fraud reports filed against them, I can answer all your questions.
1. What should I do? You did the right thing by posting a response on the eBay fraud report form.
2. Should I do anything else? Yes. Continue to respond to any future fraud posts that the bidder may add to the fraud claim. Always respond to whatever they post in the claim - no matter what.
3. Should I include in the form the copies of all the emails I've sent to her? You can, but it isn't necessary. eBay does not look at the fraud reports and take sides. It is merely a place to post and respond to the complaint.
4. Who sees these complaints? Just you and the person who filed the complaint. None of your bidders will ever know it is there.
I cannot stress this enough - RESPOND TO WHATEVER THEY POST! If you don't, then eBay will give the bidder information to continue a claim against you. They will then request that you respond to the complaint, and will ultimately place judgement over it. If they rule against you, they will NARU you.
If you continue to respond to whatever the bidder posts, the claim will just sit there. It never goes away, but it never hurts you.
posted on June 13, 2002 07:49:47 PM
Thanks so much for your responses!
To clarify, the buyer did file a complaint but as far as I know did not forward any emails. She says she isn't getting them - and email from ebay made no mention of forwarded emails in their form.
The buyer did pay for the item, but I was unable to fill the order until she sent me the additional information I needed.
It's hard to believe this buyer is lieing since she did pay and did not request a refund but the shipment of her ring. The refund came about when we spoke on the phone because, frankly, we were both very frustrated.
I don't know why she didn't get her emails - but I have emailed her domain admin contact and her isp. Perhaps they can find out what's up and prove her lie if she isn't honest.
Yes, I too struggle with the return receipt issue. I did it for a while but had such a huge deluge of mail that I just had to stop it. You know - now that I think about it I suppose we could setup a filter in the email software to funnel away those return emails and review them only in the event of a problem. Maybe I'll give that a try. Thanks for thinking of it!
The response from revvassago is exactly what I was hoping to find. I really wanted to hear from someone who has experienced the process to give me insight. Thanks for helping me learn from your experience!!!
I guess I'll just wait to see what happens and take a deep breath about the neg that will assuredly come...
posted on June 13, 2002 09:28:13 PM
[em]I cannot stress this enough - RESPOND TO WHATEVER THEY POST! If you don't, then eBay will give the bidder information to continue a claim against you. They will then request that you respond to the complaint, and will
ultimately place judgement over it. If they rule against you, they will NARU you. [/em]
And this is based on...what exactly?
I've ignored four fraud reports, will continue to do so, and have never gotten a PEEP out of eBay other than the automated email.
I don't believe for a single second that eBay is interested in making any kind of determination of fact in buyer/seller disputes, unless there is some way that eBay can make money off the process or keep from losing money.
I just went to the Fraud Reporting area and note that the four complaints against me are no longer in the system. They were closed and removed. Again, I never responded to any of them. None of them actually qualified for Fraud Reporting: 3 were items less than $25 and the 4th was a customer claiming she'd sent me way too much money and I wouldn't refund...also ineligible for FRS.
There is one complaint I made against a seller still in the system. He never responded, and the case has been closed.
So trot out that old NARU bogeyman if you like, but I don't believe it.
posted on June 14, 2002 08:37:16 AM
Thanks again for all the comments.
It's interesting that you've ignored several fraud claims. eBay is so frustrating that way -- some things are very important and others aren't. Logic often doesn't seem to apply... For example, it is so odd to me that negative feedback is such a threat but an actual fraud claim is private! I'm glad since I didn't do anything wrong - but the claim will hurt me less than a neg would from what I've seen so far.
I notice your comment about the $25 minimum. Honestly I haven't read all the fine print in the fraud claim process - skimmed it but not a good read. The item she purchased was $15. Does this mean she can't do anything?
I have responded to everything immediately.
No, she doesn't have an aol account.
As a matter of fact, just to be especially thorough, I sent an email to the webmaster and the NIC admin contact for her url to investigate why email to her address isn't delivered or bounced back. Since her domain is for a law firm, gee, I hope she doesn't get in trouble for shopping ebay at work and filing fraud charges against an email account involving her employer. Wouldn't that be unfortunate? I am, of course, just trying to clarify her complaint...
Mind you, when I sent a final email with all this info in it to her - she REPLIED!!! Funny how that one got thru...
I just don't understand people sometimes. What possible reason could she have to do all this? I would gladly have cancelled the transaction and refunded her money if she wanted me to - my auctions all say 100% money back guarantee. What could she gain by all this trouble????? I'm just stumped....
posted on June 14, 2002 07:26:04 PMAnd this is based on...what exactly?
Because I had a report filed against me, and finally gave up on responding to the insults that the bidder was putting in the report - it got to the point of him posting threats against my life. I stopped responding, and about 30 days after, received an email from eBay:
Hello,
We regret to inform you that the following complaint has been filed and that the buyer has received information on the appropriate agencies to contact and to file charges.
*******************************************
FRAUD COMPLAINT
Complaint Tracking Number: XXXXXXXXXXX
By: XXXXXXX ([email protected])
Against: XXXXXXXXXX@XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
Date Complaint Filed: Sep-29-01 10:14:07 PDT
Nature of Complaint:
I sent a payment and received the merchandise, but the merchandise arrived in damaged condition.
********************************************
If these agencies determine that you have committed fraud, eBay will terminate your membership privileges.
Regards,
Fraud Reporting Form
I then received this email about a month later:
Hello,
Final Notification:
Please be aware that failure to respond to this notification within 3
days may result in the default of this claim by you and the suspension
of your account.
eBay's Claim Administration is investigating a Fraud Protection Claim
that has been filed against your account for Item # XXXXXXXXXX XXXXXXX
XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX by [email protected].
Unfortunately, the winning bidder of this transaction has alleged that
the merchandise that they received was misrepresented in the auction
description.
This claim has been assigned the Claim Number XXXX.
Please respond to this notification (Attention Ervin) within 3 days with
your intentions and be prepared to produce documentation to support your
case if you wish to dispute this claim.
Failure to respond to this notification may result in this claim being
defaulted by you and being paid in favor of the buyer. Failure to
respond may also result in the suspension of your eBay account and all
associated accounts.
We appreciate your quick attention and cooperation during this
investigation. We sincerely hope that you and your trading partner will
be able to resolve this situation.
Have a good day.
Kind Regards,
Ervin
Claims Adjuster
Fraud Protection Program
I responded to "Ervin", and explained my side, and included all relevant information (including all emails with headers), and the case was closed in my favor.
I also have another fraud report that has been open since Sept 27th of last year, and continues to be open. I am the last one to respond, and it has remained idle becuase of it.
posted on June 15, 2002 07:37:51 AM
Again, thanks to all for the info.
I wish I could say I'm surprised that two sellers had such different experiences with eBay - but I'm not... I try to stay away from badmouthing them (eBay) because despite all eBay's faults they do provide access to a strong market in a way that no one else does. But it does get hard sometimes to understand how they make decisions...
To the last poster, I had not seen this fraud section of eBay before last week either. I still don't know how to get thru to it outside of the links they email to me, although I suppose searching SafeHarbor would likely turn it up.
I received an email last week saying that I'd had a fraud charge filed against me and that I needed to respond within 30 days. The email included a link and a username/password for me to use. The link took me to a password protected page and after entering their password I went to a page with a button that had a number string on it. That # string was the tracking number for the complaint (it was in that email too). I suppose if I had multiple complaints, there would be multiple buttons. Clicking the button took me to a form that showed my auction and her complaint with the option to request her contact info or respond to her complaint. I did both. That seems to be it. I haven't gotten anything else. (Not yet, anyway) It seems that she has to close the complaint, but I'm not sure.
Where one would go to find that from the beginning without being sucked into the abyss with an email link, I'm not sure. Again - I'd surf SafeHarbor.
I can't stress enough to anyone reading this what a terrific help it is to post on the boards when something like this crops up. It's like gold to be able to hear from people who've experienced the same thing and how it turned out for them.
I try to believe the best in people and really didn't think this girl was lying to me -- but then she replied to my last email. I just can't understand at all... Ah well...
