posted on June 25, 2002 04:48:39 PM new
This morning I was asked by Ebay to doa survey. it was all about Ebay fees and if I thought they were fair. The questions were asked in such a way you almost had to support the idea of Ebay raising its fees. I have no doubt we will see a price hike in the future. They also asked a lot of questions about flat fees. Sounds like the want to charge one flat fee for big number sellers and squeeze the small sellers out.
I only pay a few hundred dollars a month in fees if that. I am considered a small seller. I have been building up my web site and it is getting a fair amout of traffic. They also asked about where else I selll etc.
I was hoping as most of you where that we would see a free listing day this week. I doubt it now. The penny gallery thing kind of dashed my hopes but I got some ready anyway. Now Canada is having a free listing day on Thursday so I really doubt that we will have on here in the USA. Ebay can't handle it.
So looks like they are going to be raising the fees and taking away the few things that give us small sellers a break. I hope I am wrong about the free listing day.
I seem to recall a few years ago the didn't have one in the summer for the US or either it was August anyone else recall that?
posted on June 25, 2002 05:27:47 PM new
eBay will have to raise fees sometime. If the Rolling Stones go on tour and sell out everywhere the go at $90/ticket on average they will try a $120/ticket next time, etc until the price is way too high and nobody comes to the shows.
There are too many items on eBay to make selling that that profitable for most sellers. Fee increases should thin out some sellers and increase profits for most of the remaining sellers due to less competition. That may be the way eBay's thinking is running now.
posted on June 25, 2002 07:07:59 PM new
Meg has also projected eBay revenue by 2005 to be $3 billion dollars. Do you think she wants to please the stock holders or the sellers ?
She can't do it through volume growth, that's leveled off and may even decline depending on the general economy. What she'll do to make her projections come true is raise fees.
[ edited by REAMOND on Jun 25, 2002 07:11 PM ]
I was a business major who took extra economics courses for fun. Really I know that is a sad statement <LOL>. I understand markets. Perhaps I was not precise enough. I know there are going to be raises in fees there always is but I think it will be more then that. I also think the timing sucks wind for most sellers.
It seems like they are looking at a whole new price structure for Ebay. One that will not be in favor of little sellers but major businesses. One that will not give you a choice if you want to pay for extras like Gallery etc.. . . I am wondering if anyone else took the survey and got the same feeling? I got a very strong feeling they are looking at an all inclusive one fee for everything and if you want to do it by item you will pay out the nose. It would be easier for Ebay. The inclusive wouldn't be to bad but it seems to me that it is going to cost more then most sellers here pay a month now just from the way the questions were geared.
However, we all knew that was coming also. That is why I started pumping up my website a few years ago and now have hired one extra part time person to assist in the transition. I am a small business from the questions they asked today the percentage of profit they get will be to high for me or higher then I am willing to pay when there are other venues.
Actually, I think they are to high now when you add in all the extras but I haven't found the extras to be a benefit so I don't use them. Without them Ebay is suitable.
I doubt the fee increases are going to weed out the stuff on Ebay. It seems to me that there will be more with an inclusive price. Also seems to me that there will be more retail everyday items and less true collectibles. . .
but that was just my feeling from the survey and the other changes that are taking place.
posted on June 25, 2002 08:19:19 PM new"I seem to recall a few years ago the didn't have one in the summer for the US or either it was August anyone else recall that?"
In 1999, they were supposedly doing a lot of upgrading during the summer, and we got a free listing day 9-9-99. That date is kinda hard to forget.
posted on June 25, 2002 09:18:03 PM new
It seems I recall a free listing day last winter I almost wanna say it was New Years eve but Im not positive, I do remember that I didnt get the email for it til maybe 12 hours before it happened. In regard to the issue of Ebay raising fees, its called inflation, I just cant really see them making such a drastic change in their pricing structure that it would force so many out, the small sellers are their biggest business, though it may not seem like it. In Vegas it seems like there is a lot of money at the card games and craps tables, but everyone knows that casinos make all their money from the slots, the small sellers are in essence the Ebay Casino slots.
posted on June 25, 2002 09:31:55 PM new
The winter free listing day for the past two years has been December 20th. In 2000 (It was a Wednesday), I almost missed it. I had vacation as had plans to be away and was quick checking listings and ran across it. So last year (2001) I figured it would be a Wednesday before Xmas again and had planned for it. Wrong. It was thursday, again the 20th. I had vacation again, but had to break plans to get in the listings for the second year in a row. If that pattern goes for the summer listing, it could even be Friday, but I must agree with the majority on this one. I think the penny gallery will replace the free listings this year.
posted on June 25, 2002 10:22:56 PM newI doubt the fee increases are going to weed out the stuff on Ebay. It seems to me that there will be more with an inclusive price. Also seems to me that there will be more retail everyday items and less true collectibles.
I think the true collectibles will be the only auction format items left. What options do those sellers have? Take their true collectibles to some low traffic auction site? Take them to a small flea market?
The common items will be the items that will all but disappear on eBay. Far too many of the same common items and hefty fees make eBay a bad place to sell these items.
posted on June 25, 2002 10:29:06 PM new
Flat fees are definitely bad for small sellers. Small sellers would be subsidizing large sellers. Problem is, people actually like the flat fee system better so small sellers probably will stick around. Ebay would be smart to implement that, but I don't favor it.
posted on June 25, 2002 11:05:19 PM new
The only problem with flat fees is that it wouldn't represent true costs for eBay.
Even though server space for an auction is relatively cheap, the aggregate for the servers do cost money. There would be little control over the number of listings if eBay went to a flat fee.
I can see the syatem severly strained if they went to a flat fee.
On the other hand, if eBay does abandon the "garage sale/flea market" venue, some other entity will pick up the pieces at another site.
Let's face it, eBay is not satisfied with the garage sale/flea market venue. It has its limits, and eBay doesn't want to be limited.
eBay would rather be the online selling platform for regular retailors. Less problems, and less costs per transaction.
However, eBay will not be able to attract big retailors due to branding. The retailors do not want their merchandise to be branded by or closely associated with eBay.
It will be interesting to see how eBay procedes. Either eBay will abandon the small sellers by design or it will attempt to maintain the small sellers and attract the big names. The former may alienate many buyers, and the latter will alienate large retailors.
My bet is that eBay will attempt to run off small sellers and by doing so will lose far too many buyers and there-by lose potential customers for their big sellers. eBay will then try to reverse their plan to recover traffic, and become again a garage sale/flea market and their stock will be around $14 a share.
posted on June 26, 2002 01:21:46 AM new
If eBay is going to run off the small sellers why not do it right? Why be a penny ante site? Make all start bids be at least $2 or $3 if not $5? If you go through the closed auctions and you'll see thousands of items that closed under a buck? A huge chuck of eBay items close under $5. Many of these items are sold by crafty sellers that are doing fee avoidance with large s/h amounts. These sellers of very low value items are robbing eBay of a lot of revenue. Is eBay going to lose a lot of buyers because a bunch of inexpensive items are forbidden because of a mandatory $5 start bid? Those low end items are all readily available at the Half portion of eBay where eBay rakes in a 15% commission. The Half.com items will soon be blended into the main site so much that they will appear to be merely auctions with a BIN price only.
Big changes are headed for eBay and the low value items either have to go to the Half.com format or leave eBay. The original eBay will look very little like the new eBay but the new eBay will make it's $5 billion revenue goal.
posted on June 26, 2002 05:27:00 AM new
I would like to see eBay set a minimum bid or if they have to raise insertion fees. Whatever it takes to get rid of so many cheap or junk items. I also sometimes sell cheap stuff but I would like to sell my good stuff where it can be found without buyers having to wade through all the junk to find it. I think if eBay raises fees or sets a minimum most sellers including myself would list their cheap items on Yahoo. Buyers would learn to shop Yahoo for the low priced items and eBay for the higher priced items.
The common items will be the items that will all but disappear on eBay. Far too many of the same common items and hefty fees make eBay a bad place to sell these items. >>
I don't know I believe they are getting away from collectibles. I think they are making much more money on things like computer games, computers, and other things like that.
I have a teenager that just turned 18 that works for me. Important for knowing the hot games because I wouldn't have a clue. When we go out shopping for Ebay he lets me know the hot games. I am surprised at some of the prices the games command and the profit margin : ). It seems that Ebay is making more money on that kind of stuff then the low end (10-100 dollars) medium end (A few hundred dollars in value) collectibles.
I hope you are right I dislike going onto Ebay and seeing all the common items I can pick up at a local store. I do however, sometimes shop for them on Ebay because I can get a better price. Actually I am doing this more and more and buying less of what I collect myself on Ebay because the prices are getting silly for what I collect. I make out better in the local market.
If Ebay is going to run off the small sellers why not do it right? Why be a penny ante site? Make all start bids be at least $2 or $3 if not $5? >>
Those starting prices are Penny ante. One is going to spend at least 30 minutes on one auction in total if you included all the steps buying, selling, contacting, shipping etc.. . . the start bid should be a least enough to cover the labor costs of that unless the seller knows that the price is going to get bid up.
My feeling is that in a few years Ebay will be charging flat fees offering several packages. I do think however, they will do one flat fee for start of auction fees and still do the end of auction percentage.
None of the flat fees I believe will be less then 100.00 and the ones that low will be very limited in listing privileges.
I also think they will offer a choice of paying like we pay now but that rate will be highly inflated so as to discourage it.
They want Power sellers. I can understand that. I am not a power seller I don't sell over the summer months. Even thought I knew all that I still was surprise at some of their questions.
posted on June 26, 2002 11:51:47 AM new
I think it is a misconception to associate "small sellers" with the low final value of an item.
eBay doesn't want to get rid of $2 items, provided you are selling $5000 to $10000 worth a month.
What eBay may do is set a gross sales threshold to stay at eBay, rather than higher starting bids.
eBay would much rather have one seller sell $10000 a month than have 10 sellers sell $1000 a month.
But how does eBay force this consolidation of sellers?
eBay may set a fee schedule that has a minimum fee for all sellers. They may set it at $250, $100 or $50, whether you sell one item or 500. You will not be assessed any more fees until you pass this minimum, but you will have to pay the minimum each month regardless to sell on eBay. This will run off all occaisional sellers and very small volume sellers, who either can't do that much business or don't have the capital to risk $100 or $200 a month.
But as much as anyone may complain about "junk" being sold on eBay, the bottom line is that this "junk" wouldn't be on eBay unless it was selling.
It never ceases to amaze me how many people buy miracle diet pills on eBay, but they sell, and sell a lot.
eBay doesn't want to get rid of lower priced items, it wants to get rid of low volume sellers and/or low monthly gross sellers.
posted on June 26, 2002 12:32:34 PM new
Just for my curiosity, let's say eBay is going to set a flat fee for unlimited listings. How much would you pay for unlimited auctions on eBay?
For example, with Amazon.com auctions you can pay $40 a month for their pro-merchant plan and list all the auctions you want for free. Granted, nothing sells on Amazon Auctions, but it's the type of plan I am talking about.
How much would you be willing to pay for unlimited auctions on eBay, and what do you think eBay would actually charge for this option?
$40 a month (Too low for GreedBay)
$100 a month (Elimates small sellers)
$1000 a month (Corporate types only)
posted on June 26, 2002 02:05:15 PM new
I don't think eBay will ever have a flat fee for unlimited listings.
There would be no way to control the volume, and it could easily crash their system. FLD always causes system problems.
However, it may have a two tiered system where some very large sellers may get flat fees, but the flat fee would be a lot higher than most small or medium sellers now pay.
But going to a flat fee with a limit on listings is possible, and eBay could use a flat monthly fee to even out the listing fluxuation throughout the year and cause sellers to consistently list each month or lose the fees.
eBay could also go to a scaled fee system. Charge $x amount for up to 100, 200, 300, listings a month, etc.. This would even out their cash flow from listings fees, and again throw a wrench into the low volume sellers on eBay.
eBay could also model the fees after a shopping mall. A seller pays so much per month in advance for so many listing ( somewhat like renting square feet) and still takes a percentage of sales.
In any event, an online venue like eBay can not afford to offend their customers because it is too easy for a competitior to quickly cease that market share.
Ultimately I think eBay is after a market it can not get. Well capitilized and brand name merchandisers will simply not use eBay when they can utilize their own site and their own brand name.
eBay is idealy built for under capitilized no-brand sellers- hence a garage sale/flea market venue.
Other than overstock/returns, there is no reason for brand name merchandisers to marginalize their brand names by selling on eBay. If the public gets the idea that new stock brand name merchandise can be bought cheaper on eBay, then their other more profitable sales channels suffer greatly. The same thing happened when many retailers started unsuccessful online sales sites- the products were no cheaper than in the B&M stores, so why buy online ? The large merchandisers are also livid about the possibility of one-click away price competition. Legal knock-off merchandise was always ignored because it couldn't afford the high rents and expenses of the large merchandisers and are geographically removed from direct competiton, not so with eBay.
What good is an alternative sales channel if your prices must be lower than your regular more profitable sales channels ? Make it up in volume ? No- because your inventory and other costs will climb right with your increased sales, so what you would be doing is shifting your efforts to a less profitable venue. Who in their right mind would do that ?
eBay is a flea market and always will be. Even the auto and real estate venues are flea marketesque. I wouldn't buy a used car off eBay Motors, I am surprised at the people that do, unless it is a rare or collector car.
Meg and company are trying to keep the revenue growth growing. I don't think that growth is going to do it for them, and they will resort to higher fees in some way shape or form.
posted on June 26, 2002 02:30:52 PM new
Here's my take what I think ebay will do. They want to get the average sell price above the current $8.00, so what they will do is implement a flat rate based on, for example, a $10 sale. That is .80¢ per listing. The seller would buy 100 auctions in advance at $80.00, good until used up.
So, the seller who has a poor sell through will subsidize the seller that has a good sell through, and the seller who sells $2.00 items will subsidize the seller that sells $18.00 items. This will scare away many small sellers or encourage them to increase their sell through which essentially gets rid of lots of "junk".
posted on June 26, 2002 02:40:33 PM new
". ..Even the auto and real estate venues are flea marketesque. I wouldn't buy a used car off eBay Motors, I am surprised at the people that do, unless it is a rare or collector car..." <br><br>... oh, contrare ... a few months ago, we'd been looking all over the place here for a nice used minivan, and were 'this close' to paying a lot more for a lot less [than what i managed to find on ebay motors]; mind you it wasn't until after a few emails and a couple of phone calls that we decided to hit that 'buy it now' button ... we knew that if we showed up to get the van and didn't want it, that the dealer would basically not hold us to the purchase [as long as we'd pay his ebay listing fee] ... they had VERY ample positive feedback remarks [around 150] about all of the used cars they'd sold on ebay since last fall ... we made a day trip out of it, going from Ohio to NJ to pick it up ... these particular folks [family owned and operated since '77] are able to sell their cars at thousands under blue book ... i can't say enough about how cool these people were to deal with ... anyone wanting an awesome deal and willing to go to NewJersey to get it, email me [[email protected]] and i'll point you in their direction ... i swear to God it's the best deal my husband and i have ever gotten on a car in the 30 years we've been married ... ... ... ... i ought to stick to the orig. subj. of this thread OBebayLive; i keyed in to listen/watch some of the tapes they have of the Q&A sessions [alright maybe meg isn't a hotty, but that's cuz a lot of people her[my]age [middle-aged] just have a given-birth-to-a-few-kids-who-are-adults-now figure ... for pete's sake, she never should be perceived as wanting to win any beauty contest. ... their talks and rapport with the attendees is really awesome ... wish i could have gone ... i've been selling on ebay for 4 or 5 years now, and yeah the fees 'get to me', but no more than deadbeats, argumentative ebay'ers, and backaches do. ... it's always something ... ebay is the greatest and only venue of its kind that is a very well known and exciting website to browse through ... i'm amazed to this day how many of my bidders are 'new' to ebay... this IS consistent growth of potential customers that we will enjoy [mostly] dealing with ... ... ... ebay is even setting up [it's almost ready] a 'disaster' backup site in case unthinkable natural or unnatural [read, terrorism] disasters would ever hit their locale [alluded that the site is not anywhere near The Bay in CA], so that our ebay businesses can still be operable ... this ain't no small potatoes business they've created, so i know we can't expect to be charged small potatoes fees. -Porfere in Ohio
[ edited by porfere on Jun 26, 2002 02:43 PM ]
posted on June 26, 2002 02:58:09 PM new
I recently bought a car there too. The seller canceled the one bid that was on the car and ended the auction. Why pay eBay anymore than the $40 listing fee when you don't have to? Many sellers create a new eBay ID and sell on eBay Motors. eBay will have to find a way to stop that FVF fee avoidance as it must be very coomon to avoid FVFs on eBay Motors.
posted on June 26, 2002 03:10:10 PM new
There is no way I would buy a used vehicle from a dealer several states away- online auction or otherwise. Nearly every avenue of recourse you might have for a lemon deal is compounded by the seller being far away in another state.
Even a matter of warranty become problematic. You have to transport the vehicle to the dealer for warranty work.
If you have even a 30 day warranty and the A/C goes out- you have to take the vehicle hundreds of miles away to another state for warranty service. No thanks.
If the transmission goes out you'd have to tow the vehicle to the dealer. You'll have as much in the tow charge as you would in making the repair yourself.
I suppose there are some folks that if they get a super deal will accept the risks.
posted on June 26, 2002 03:25:52 PM new
Most of the cars sold on eBay are locals buying/selling another local a used car. Same risks as buying a car on most used car lots or private sale vehicles. There are 6 million people within an hour drive of where I live so there are a lot of potential buyers/sellers that are close. There are many metropolitan areas like mine. eBay offers almost no protection on it's items and you drive away or tow away your vehicle so there is little reason to stick the seller with hundreds of dollars in FVF, therefore many sellers and buyers agree to retract the bids and close the auctions and do the deal. I've seen auction descriptions that say "I may cancel all bids and close the auction if I find a local buyer".
