posted on July 31, 2002 12:31:16 PM
THIS IS LONG...trying to give all the details I can think of.
If anyone with experience using Square Trade has an answer that can help me, I sure would appreciate it.
Buyer wins my auction. Thrilled she got it at such a "low price". I email EOA email stating totals. [bid price, shipping and insurance] Gave choice of using PM or PP. Buyers choice.
She pays using PP same day. Unverified PP user, who now requests I ship to her work address. BUT she amount she sent didn't include the insurance fee.
I email back [nicely] explaining the auction required insurance fees. Either she could cancel her payment or I could refuse it and she could re-issue the full payment.
Next email...nasty gram. Tells me to ship it, she doesn't have to pay for insurance.
I email back saying we'd be more than happy to ship it uninsured if she would agree [and send us an email so stating] that should the item become lost, or damaged during transit, she would accept the responsibility. I explained that we are great packers, haven't had anything not arrive nor arrive broken yet. But because of the amount of the winning bid, we had required insurance to protect our investment. If she was willing to, we'd ship.
Next email - She states we're being cheap, and "ebay told her she doesn't have to pay for insurance, SHIP IT".
I send her url of ebay rule that says by bidding on a sellers auction you agree to their terms. If she doesn't believe me, please read the ebay rule. I state we are trying to be flexible by shipping it uninsured if she accepts responsibility.
NO GO....rude email.
I deny PP payment and email her I have done so.
File NPB form, checking buyer didn't abide by sellers TOS. Left non emotional FB stating: "Buyer didn't abide by sellers TOS/refused to pay required ins." Of course, I get a negative about how nasty I am.
Next email I get is from Square Trade. [Work this out email.] In my almost 5 years on ebay, never used ST. Three days of trying to explain why we required insurance on this item, asking her to please read the ebay url I sent...etc. More rude emails.
In my last Square Trade email I told her we were wasting each others time, and asked her to end the Square Trade function. She refuses.
So....can I just let this go and still file for my FVFs...or will being involved in the ST program keep me from doing so? I have suggested she pay the SQ fee and they might explain the ebay rule to her since she doesn't believe me. NO!! She won't.
Not sure if she's trying to get the negative I left off her FB or not have the NPB mark against her.
I just want this over....any suggestions? PLEASE..
posted on July 31, 2002 12:51:12 PM
If you responded to Square Trade (which under these circumstances I wouldn't have) you may have agreed to something: such as a time frame, or arbitration and abiding by their (ST's) decision, etc.
First thing is to re-read all their emails.
If you are in the clear there, then ignore Square Trade and your nasty buyer, and proceed with whatever course of action you want.
I think she can get the negative and/or NPB removed whether you co-operate or not, but I'm not sure how that works....something about paying Square Trade (eBay) enough bribe money.
And I'm in sympathy with you. I've had 2-3 over the years who decided they were going to be horses' a$$es over insurance or acceptable forms of payment (in violation of my TOS). In fact, the only negative I have ever received was from a jackdonkey who didn't want to pay for insurance. I yielded to him on that (this was when insurance was .85) provided we did a delivery confirmation (which was .35 or .40 at the time). Then he decided (demanded!) he wanted a 3 pound package shipped at the "cheaper first class rate". I had quoted him priority as parcel post was one whole nickel cheaper. Finally I just emailed him with our original terms...take 'em or leave 'em. He told me he would leave 'em, so I filed my NPB - to which he replied with a negative feedback. Wrote me numerous emails taunting me about it, which I ignored.
But you know what? Over the years, he has only succeeded in making himself look like what he is - as there have been hundreds of positives since then.
posted on July 31, 2002 12:54:37 PM
You seem to be remaining very calm!
I'm impressed!
Since Square Trade has intervened, I think it is time to politely tell the wacko that any further e-mails from her will be considered harassment and forwarded to her isp.
Wish I could be of more asistance but, like you, I've been on eBay for years without having to tackle Square Trade.
Keep us posted,
and keep smiling!
posted on July 31, 2002 01:23:15 PM
Thanks you two
The first email Square Trade sent basically said that the buyer was stating she paid so, therefore, disagreed with the NPB issue. That I had returned her money and she was not a non paying bidder. This was my decision. Which was true...she had paid..just not the full amount due. And when we couldn't work out the insurance/letter of release I did refund her money.
I took email to mean she was denying my NPB request. If we didn't have to file that form, and could just request our FVFs back without going through that process...this all would be so much easier. I can remember when all we had to do was email billing at ebay and they'd credit our account.
When the buyer received the NPB notice it has a url the buyer can disagree with this claim being made. This is what she chose to do.
On the ST email it said there was no cost to work this out online. I thought great...so agreed to participate. It gives a 30 day period to do so. You can extend it to 60 days if you want. I did, as we're leaving on vacation and won't be here when the 30 days would have been up. There was no fee.
What I didn't realize was that this was just another email system to rehash the same issue we had before.
I've read the ST site and it says the only way the issue can be settled is IF both parties agree to end it. And....that's my problem. She won't agree. I did suggest she pay the $20.00 fee [which only the person who stated this process can do], but she refuses. That would involve a mediator.
Hi Zoomin - Thanks. I felt calm as she was a fairly new ebay user (7) and I did check on what other items she had won and saw that the sellers had made insurance optional. Well...that's fine, but they were much lower priced items too. We also don't require insurance on lower priced items. Less to lose.
But after several back and forth emails that were getting nastier and getting us nowhere, I filed the NPB notice. In one she asked if I was on drugs...said she felt sorry for me...what a nasty person I was...etc. So I just gave up on the thought that this was because she didn't understand ebay rules.
posted on July 31, 2002 01:37:56 PM
gc2 - No I'm not. Have over 1000 FB [buyer & seller] this is my first neg from a buyer. I did try every which way to work this out with her. But other than doing as she demanded...ship to an unverified work address, un-insured...she just wasn't/isn't budging. And I wasn't going to do that.
But when I asked her to state in one of the Square Trade emails to state she refused to send the amount for the insurance, she wouldn't. Also wouldn't repeat that she had told me "ebay said she didn't have to pay for insurance". She just keeps saying she paid and I refunded and so it's my fault that the deal wasn't completed. I did mention that the total she paid wasn't the correct amount. [For whatever good that's going to do.]
posted on July 31, 2002 01:41:05 PM
jackswebb - I'm a slow typist. I hope when I said "thanks you two" you didn't think I was discounting you. I wasn't. I hadn't yet seen your post until I refreshed and it's there with your edited message.
posted on July 31, 2002 01:42:15 PM
I wish we had a time frame here: Date auction ended, date paid, email dates, date ST became involved, etc. When did all the negging take place?
I really don't know what you've gotten into by 'extending' it for 60 days, nor where in that time period you are now.
Regardless, you are still in the right. Whether she attempted to pay a partial amount or not....you said you used the "TOS" reason in your NPB, and that is valid.
For now, I'd just let it ride, agree to nothing but payment in full (including insurance), ignore everything else, and file my FVF when appropriate. In the meantime, relist if you choose, unless something in the ST agreement prevents that. (Of course, if you relist, be sure you block the witch.)
I would rescind my offer of a letter accepting buyer's statement of responsibility in lieu of insurance. (She didn't accept that either.) Putting the responsibility on the buyer has been argued here many times, and the people who have more legal knowledge than I do seem to think it is useless....a good bluff maybe, but that's all. They have quoted chapter and verse here that ultimately it comes back to the seller...even if the buyer says he will take resposibility, he can still come back on the seller if something goes wrong.
I really don't believe thaere is a good solution to this now - it's gone too far.
posted on July 31, 2002 02:17:34 PM
gc2 - Thanks for your input.
Most of the emails were that first week...until it became clear she wasn't going to work with me in any way, and the emails were getting nowhere. I've saved them all. Mine and hers. My policy has always been, why fight it. Just file for a refund of my fees and leave a negative. But I've never had a buyer file a Square Trade when they won't pay.
I extended the 30 days to 60 days as we weren't going to be here when the 30 days was up. And not having dealt with ST before, I wasn't sure not being available to deal with this when the time limit was up, might present a problem.
But there is a button to end the process, but both buyer and seller have to be willing. She's not willing. She won't pay, won't end the process, won't pay the fee to settle...that's why I posted my HELP ME PLEASE post.
Anyway...I do appreciate the answers you ALL have/had provided.
posted on July 31, 2002 03:15:31 PM
i would pay the $20.00 and get mediator involved, explain that you wish to have telephone contact with mediator and no more contact with the buyer,
they will enter your replies for you.
because she has no confirmed address
it could count as she never paid - technicaly you never RECEIVED the money,
PayPal did, and it was up to you to accept it / receive it.
explain to ST mediator
that she never paid - to you,
she didnt go by your TOS and she turned down the option of no insurance that you were nice enough to offer her.
so far you did everything right, you are willing to work things out, she's not,
I think you have a good case,
ask to have your neg removed.
i'm a st member and had a nasty case resolved by them,
their service is good,
when a mediator is involved,
everything is faster.
do not take phone calls from this person,
and keep all emails.
posted on July 31, 2002 03:57:02 PM
laiochka - Thanks for the suggestion of mentioning I didn't accept the payment. That might help.
On paying the fee...from what I read, I took it that the only person who could file for the mediator was the person who filed the complaint....my buyer. I will go back and re-read to see if there is some other way for the seller to ask. But when I clicked on the "getting a mediator - How do I get the help of a mediator" that's what it said. Also, it irks me to even think of losing $20.00 [$25.00] to settle this when she's the one who's stating "ebay says I don't have to pay insurance". Already out the listing fee, picture fees, 10 day auction fee. Just trying to re-coop my FVF.
So...I take it you were the person who filed the case you were involved in?
trai - Thank you. I'm really not stressed, but have been wanting to wrap up all the last batch of auctions before leaving on vacation. More frustrated that this is over such a silly issue. You know...such a waste of time.
nharmon - The way I took the first email was to not respond would pretty much mean I was agreeing with what my buyer was saying. That's why I agreed to work with them in the first place. And the Square Trade site has it's own url...not ebays. But they're connected in some way.
posted on July 31, 2002 04:23:32 PM
Ignore ST, do your thing and block the buyer's email. You'll feel so good in the morning you'll wonder why you put yourself thru this.
posted on July 31, 2002 04:43:56 PM
ok pretty much you can ignore them. the work it out thing is pretty much voluntary. i used it once and the seller ignored it completely. there is no harm in ignoring them. im sure it was already said in the other threads but i didnt read them all so sorry if im passing along already given info.
posted on July 31, 2002 04:52:56 PMseyms - Great advice. Just trying to learn what I'm up against. I'm trying to tell myself that this is a learning process. So if it ever happens again, I'll know what's going on.
nharmon - I just went back and read and it states Square Trade is a 'partner' with ebay...but the site states they are an independent 3rd party company.
Anyone can report anyone for most any reason. Feedback removal, buyer won't ship item, item not sent, item not as described...etc.etc..etc.
Not clear if my buyer is stating I wouldn't ship or only to get her feedback removed or both. We'll see.
The initial filer is the only one who can request the mediator. But if the accused doesn't respond within 14 days, the filer automatically filer wins.
So, if you ever have this happen to you...don't ignore it.
If the dispute is agreed upon, Square Trade will notify ebay and you can have your feedback removed.
I'm off. Thanks to everyone who took the time to respond.
posted on July 31, 2002 05:45:15 PM
Square Trade is not part of ebay, you are not required to take part in anything they offer. You can explain that they buyer did not abide by your TOS, and that is the end of the story. I would block email from that bidder (as well as any future bids) and just move on. If they want the NPB removed, I suppose they can go to ebay directly and complain, but I don't think they will get anywhere...
By the way, I don't believe you have rejected payment. They sent in an amount that was not the agreed amount on the terms of service for the auction, you have EVERY right to require insurance. I don't think they will get anywhere with any complaint.
posted on July 31, 2002 06:49:28 PM
Well, it took me a while to get back to this thread and Linda, I've gotta tell you, I feel like I'm on a merry-go-round.
Do whatever you have to do to be done with this thing before you puke!
I can't believe how grumpy and petty people can be.
Is this fun for her?
What a waste of good energy!
In one she asked if I was on drugs...said she felt sorry for me...what a nasty person I was...etc.
You see, this part is actually really funny.
If not for the circles she's had you spinning in, on a different day you would have to wear depends to read your mail.
Imagine the fun in replying:
Yes, the drugs I am on make me a very nasty person. Thank you so much for taking pity on me.
You'd could probably even talk her into sending a generous donation to your 'relief fund'!
methinks mebbe she could use a coupla pills herself ....
regardless...
This loony tune is taking up waaay too much space in your brain.
You should be thinking of all of the fun things you'll be doing on your vacation.
Pack it in, suck it up, and move on.
Find a way to shut the door on this one and save your sanity!
Life is too short!
{{{val}}}
Tells me to ship it, she doesn't have to pay for insurance.
