ironking
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posted on July 31, 2002 02:09:08 PM
I had a seller, whom i bought video tapes previously, he charges 5.00 for first, 4.00 for second, abit high but he delivers on time, does either priority or first class, no problem. Gave this fellow over 200 dollar worth of business in the past.
now I win 2 videos off him yesterday, he sends me a paypal invoice, he wants 10.00 A PIECE to ship the item. That's 20 dollars! He is in Ny, I am in CA. I asked him why, he claims he does the best to pack, your package will be shipped with utmost care, plus he admitted he sold these 2 way under what he paid for, so he wants to recoup it via shipping fee.
i told him you charged me 5 for first previously, he then states "but this auction I DIDN'T mention shipping fee!" Gees, I gave him all these business, is business so bad regular customers of sellers are being treated to this rip off?? Should i report him to safeharbor? 20.00 to ship 2 videos coast to coast via first class sounds like a rip off to me.
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waynebm
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posted on July 31, 2002 02:35:20 PM
as long as you agree to pay the seller's shipping cost, I don't think that's a violation. But I am very careful about buying multiple items from a seller unless he/she SPECIFIES reduced shipping charges for multiple items in the auction. For an additional video, it should be no more than $1.00 extra on the mailing cost. More than $2.00 is unjustifed. I rarely buy from a seller that charges too much for mailing; and I would post negative feedback for a seller that does.
[ edited by waynebm on Jul 31, 2002 02:37 PM ]
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uaru
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posted on July 31, 2002 02:45:58 PM
eBay will take action against unreasonable shipping or handling cost. It is a simple way for a seller to avoid final value fees.
Listing Policies
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Users may not use systems or techniques to circumvent eBay fees. Some examples include:
Listings with low prices but unreasonably high shipping or handling costs
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$20.00 to ship two videos from NY to CA is most unreasonable.
[ edited by uaru on Jul 31, 2002 02:47 PM ]
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Linda_K
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posted on July 31, 2002 02:49:10 PM
ironking - I believe it is an offense with ebay. Was last time I checked anyway. But who's going to decide what's excessive? Ebay so rarely gets in the middle. Having that mail from him about recooping some of his 'loss'...might just be your saving grace, though.
Was the previous shipping charge before the new rates? Probably. He appears to acting very unfairly, especially since you've been a returning buyer. $20.00 is outrageous for shipping two tapes though. I'd be upset too.
But I know for me, this last batch of auctions I ran, the shipping costs have really gone up. Almost doubled when shipping from AR to CA. A couple of my buyers have asked about the high shipping charges and I've had to reassure them that when their package arrives they can check the postage label and see I only charge what it's costs to ship. Most have understood.
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Linda_K
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posted on July 31, 2002 02:51:49 PM
[using this opportunity to wave HI to urau]
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gc2
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posted on July 31, 2002 02:52:48 PM
I'm not sure that "excessive shipping charges" is a high priority with eBay, but "Fee Avoidance" certainly is.
And especially if he admitted he is trying to up the price with shipping charges.
I think that before I reported him or negged him, I would write a very polite email, explaining that while you are sympathetic to the fact that eBay sellers are experiencing terrible sales right now, it is not allowed under eBay rules to make up the difference in shipping charges. Remind him how pleased you have been with your purchases from him in the past.
I don't think I would outright threaten him with reporting him to eBay at this point - just refer him to the rules - and then you might try to negotiate a reasonable amount that you both could live with.
If he insists on his right to grossly overcharge on shipping, I would ask if he would prefer to "mutually agree" not to complete the transaction. If he refuses, then do what you have to do, as far as reporting him, negging, whatever.
On the other hand: Would it still be a good deal for you if you paid these charges?
Ed. to add: Btw, even though he claims his auction doesn't say anything about shipping charges, it can't not, I think. Even if he doesn't discuss it in his description, the default has to say something, either "Buyer to pay actual...", or "Buyer to pay fixed rate...", or something like that. Check it out. (Of course, I think eBay has ruled before that "actual" can include a handling charge.)
[ edited by gc2 on Jul 31, 2002 02:58 PM ]
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alldings
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posted on July 31, 2002 02:53:11 PM
Offering an Item at a cheap price, then charging excessive shipping in order to make a profit is against eBay guidelines. It is called fee avoidance. Ebay looks at this as the seller trying to avoid payment of all or part of the listing fees.
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quickdraw29
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posted on July 31, 2002 03:07:50 PM
Do you care if the seller makes a profit? Probably not, so why should the seller care if you get a fair deal? He should charge you $20 s/h per tape and laugh all the way to the bank.
Everyone is entitled to my opinion.
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sn0bbish
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posted on July 31, 2002 04:25:35 PM
yes! excessive shipping is a clear violation of ebays fees. ebay does not tolerate it. tho, awhile back i started a thread about a guy who was charging $100 to ship a gift card. i reported him several times but ebay never did a thing so to answer your question. no it is not allowed but getting ebay to do anything about it is another story.
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saddamhussien
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posted on July 31, 2002 04:49:44 PM
Leave this guy a negative feedback. That will end up costing him a lot more than $20 in lost business.
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caffeitalia
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posted on July 31, 2002 09:35:37 PM
Hey quickdraw, looks like you are back to posting bogus posts.
gc2 has very good advice. I would follow it and get your items. Then turn him in.
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pelorus
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posted on August 1, 2002 06:06:43 AM
gc2 is correct. Follow his/her advice. Be nice to this guy, but assertive. In the end, you are likely still getting a good deal on the videos, although you can sure let him know you won't buy from him again if he doesn't do right.
He seems like a jerk, but maybe if he gets bad reactions from people like you he will realize his mistake.
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logansdad
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posted on August 1, 2002 07:41:06 AM
I asked him why, he claims he does the best to pack, your package will be shipped with utmost care, plus he admitted he sold these 2 way under what he paid for, so he wants to recoup it via shipping fee.
This is fee avoidance and he should be reported to ebay. I would hold onto the email in which he stated that he is trying to recoup his low profit through shipping.
IF shipping isnt stated in the auction the buyer should inquiry about shipping costs before bidding to avoid issues like these.
"An Army of One"
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quickdraw29
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posted on August 1, 2002 10:00:50 AM
"This is fee avoidance."
No it's not. Fee avoidance is when you list 1000 items for sale for 1¢ with $20 shipping.
In a regular auction the seller does not control the final price. Whether someone bids $1 or $100 is beyond the sellers control, so how can he avoid fees?
Everyone is entitled to my opinion.
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mrfoxy76
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posted on August 1, 2002 10:06:04 AM
i learned my lesson like this also ALWAYS ask shipping prior to bidding...its amazing what some people try to charge
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logansdad
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posted on August 1, 2002 11:58:37 AM
Ironking: What was the total cost of tapes w/o shipping?
Quickdraw: This is fee avoidance. The seller started his bid low thinking the bid price would get high enough. When the item sold for lower than he expected, he made his profit via shipping. The seller even stated he wanted to "recoup it via shipping fee".
This is fee avoidance plain and simple. If the seller wanted to make a profit he should have made his starting price higher or put a reserve on the auction. I am sure the seller is not a newbie and knew what he was doing. I would bet money that if the tapes went for 10 times what he paid he wouldn't be charging $10 to ship a video casette.
Everyone is entitled to their opinions. This is my take on it.
"An Army of One"
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quickdraw29
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posted on August 1, 2002 12:43:30 PM
"This is fee avoidance. The seller started his bid low thinking the bid price would get high enough. When the item sold for lower than he expected, he made his profit via shipping. The seller even stated he wanted to "recoup it via shipping fee"."
Where's the act of evasion? He tried to profit from the bidding. Ebay has no system or rules that apply to this instance on how to collect fees from profits made after the sale. Rules made up after the fact don't count. He can't evade rules that don't exist.
Everyone is entitled to my opinion.
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quickdraw29
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posted on August 1, 2002 12:51:07 PM
Here's all it says pertaining to FVF's:
"The Final Value Fee is figured using this formula:
5.25% for the amount of the current high bid (at the auction close) up to $25....."
Says it is based on the "current high bid." No mention of FVF's being placed on s/h.
Hard to avoid a fee when ebays rules state FVF are on final bids only.
Everyone is entitled to my opinion.
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sn0bbish
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posted on August 1, 2002 08:04:21 PM
i see this as fee avoidance as well. he only pays the fee for the little amount that the product sold for, while making the profit up in shipping which ebay does not charge a fee for. how do you not see this as fee avoidance?
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jalleniii
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posted on August 1, 2002 08:24:40 PM
MY opinion is that eBay will not touch this.
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logansdad
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posted on August 2, 2002 06:34:28 AM
Quickdraw your definition :
Fee avoidance is when you list 1000 items for sale for 1¢ with $20 shipping
Why does one have to list 1000 before it is fee avoidance? If you list 1 item for 1 cent and charge $20.00 for shipping that is fee avoidance. $20.00 to ship a video tape is excessive in my opinion.
You are correct the FVF are figured on the final auction amount not including any shipping. I do not disagree with that. However when you are lowering the starting price and raising the shipping price to make a profit you are trying to avoid paying "extra fees". This is clearly stated in ebay's listing policies.
"An Army of One"
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quickdraw29
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posted on August 2, 2002 07:21:54 AM
"Why does one have to list 1000 before it is fee avoidance?"
I thought I explained it well enough. A high quantity assures the seller it will sell for about 1¢, and therefore he knows his profit will come strictly from the shipping, and therefore avoid fees. (the seller is not necessarily trying to avoid fees though, it may be just a marketing ploy, and ebay tolerates this and does not automatically consider it fee avoidance).
This seller expected to get his profit from the bid price and pay his fair share of fees = No Fee avoidance.
He added the profit later to the s/h. Ebay does not have rules that FVF is assessed on the extra profit added later. Ebay does not say you can't make a profit on s/h, and they never say if you do profit on s/h that you have to pay fees, NEVER!
Everyone is entitled to my opinion.
[ edited by quickdraw29 on Aug 2, 2002 07:56 AM ]
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jalleniii
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posted on August 2, 2002 07:48:14 AM
As long as buyers continue to bid on auctions such as these, sellers will continue to run auctions with high S & H charges.
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logansdad
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posted on August 2, 2002 02:25:09 PM
Quickdraw, I like how you are changing your tune on this.
First you say: " Fee avoidance is when you list 1000 items for sale for 1¢ with $20 shipping "
Then you say: "A high quantity assures the seller it will sell for about 1¢, and therefore he knows his profit will come strictly from the shipping, and therefore avoid fees. (the seller is not necessarily trying to avoid fees though, it may be just a marketing ploy"
Which is it? You dont even follow your reasoning of what fee avoidance really is.
"An Army of One"
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ironking
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posted on August 2, 2002 05:59:35 PM
gc2, took your advise, and the seller was honest saying that yes, since I did give him business in the past, he will ship the items for cost! He is apperently getting in trouble with other non regulars so he seem to stop this hidden charges as his new auctions do list the reasonable shpping fee, BUT is starting the auction at a higher price. As for the value of the item, old shipping cost would have been a over priced actually on the going rate of the item.
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quickdraw29
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posted on August 2, 2002 06:25:27 PM
I'm clarifying my statement. There's two possibilities: either the seller (of 1000 items)is doing it to avoid fees, which is highly unlikely or he's doing it as a marketing ploy, which is most likely.
The point I was making before is someone who is listing one item can not possiby avoid fees, whereas someone who lists a Dutch of 1000 has that possibility because they know the prce relaistically can't be driven up, but that doesn't mean that is their objective.
I hope I don't have to repeat this a thousand times.
Everyone is entitled to my opinion.
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sn0bbish
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posted on August 2, 2002 06:33:55 PM
so someone who is selling ONE giftcard and charges $100 for shipping is not trying to avoid fees?! they are trying to recoupe if they do not make the profit they want AND also avoiding the fee for a $200 fvf. there is no other way about it!
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quickdraw29
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posted on August 2, 2002 06:50:14 PM
What fees? There are no (FVF) fees on shipping. Can't avoid something that doesn't exist.
Everyone is entitled to my opinion.
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sn0bbish
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posted on August 2, 2002 06:57:36 PM
the fees that person would pay had they made $200 on the item instead of $100 on the item and $100 for shipping. not once have i said anything about fees on shipping.
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quickdraw29
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posted on August 2, 2002 07:36:26 PM
"Had they made $200." LOL, yea right! Ebay needs to hire you right now. Ok sellers, Your final bid is $20 but we're going to charge you FVF based on "had you made $200."
"not once have i said anything about fees on shipping...."
"...charges $100 for shipping is not trying to avoid fees?!"
It must be the new paint causing me to see things that don't exist.
Everyone is entitled to my opinion.
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