posted on August 12, 2002 01:40:14 AM
when it's their fault? Last month I had someone mail me the wrong item, and demanded i send it back to him priority mail, and no, he wasn't going to refund shipping cost. Now today, I contacted the seller whom i purchased a item a month ago, and never recieved it. He said, must be lost in the mail, will issue you a refund for the item ONLY??!! Sounds like he is making money off shipping? Well, should i dispute this wacko with my CC as well? Is the sun really affecting the brains of these people?
posted on August 12, 2002 04:59:07 AM
If the seller has proof they shipped the item, then you would be hard pressed convincing the CC company they owe you that money back.
Especially if their TOS stated that S/H is not refundable.
I personally always refund shipping when it is my fault, but a lost package isn't my fault
posted on August 12, 2002 05:09:58 AM
Hi, the seller had no proof whatsoever. In fact it took him 6 days after auction closed to reply to me, and kept asking me "ah, are you sure you want it..." to "geez, you are so lucky, you won it for the opening, half of what i paid.." to "you sure you really want it, I just love this item.." so to me, he sounded either flaky or he didnt want to part with the item!
posted on August 12, 2002 06:13:54 AM
I refund shipping no matter who's fault it is. My guarantee says that and that is how I conduct my business. In all my sales I have only had a problem a couple of times. My first one was with a Tie. The buyer said he wasn't able to wear it because of the way it laid after he tied it. I read his feedback and it was good so I refunded his money but told him to keep the tie. I am keeping my fingers crossed. I have never sent a wrong item, but I know it could happen and I would send him the postage so he could return it.
Yes your seller sounds flaky. If he liked it that much, or if he thinks you stole the item because of a low bid, that is his fault.
The other seller with the wrong package is trying to tell you how to mail his package back to him by the most expensive way. Was what you received equal in value to what you paid for? If so, tell him you are not sending it back until he sends you postage and be firm.
posted on August 12, 2002 06:59:24 AM
Libra63, the item was something worth 2/10 of the original item I won! Heck, doesn't this count as "misrepresentation"? He also made money already as he charged me 5.00 for shipping, when he sent it 1.85 media (by illegally using a priority mail box that he folded backwards)! I took some of your advice and emailed him , telling him as a powerseller, it is your duty to refund my shipping cost for your mistake, and he never responded. so I took another person's advice and disputed with my credit card. Still can't believe he has 1000+ feedback, and no negative in the last 6 month!
posted on August 12, 2002 09:29:16 AM
If an item needs to be returned, I advise my buyers to use a trackable form of mailing. This way, there can no claims of "missing" packages. If he/she received the wrong item (low cost), I tell them to keep it. Wrong item (high cost), I tell them to return it with tracking. Once received, I send out their correct item with a shipping credit. This is my process now because you have no leverage otherwise from buyers just keeping both items.
<surprise>You mean there are dishonest buyers out there?</surprise>
posted on August 12, 2002 09:36:32 AM
If the reason for the return is my fault, I pay for the shipping both ways. I have only had to do this on 2 occasions when I put the wrong labels on 2 boxes. I had one case where the buyer wasn't happy with his purchase(didn't think the quality was good enough)in this case I paid for the return postage, but not the original postage that he paid for me to send it.
posted on August 12, 2002 10:32:17 AM
As a seller, I refund shipping both ways (or pay for return shippnig) if it is my fault. It has only happened once. I shipped a Pochocco caluclator rather than a Tare Panda calculator to a buyer. And though the Pochocco calculator is much more expensive, the buyer was a Tare Panda collector. I mailed the Tare calculator WITH a packing envelope and attached postage for the return of the Pochocco one. He was really nice, and it worked out quite nicely. I sold the Pochocco calculator later.
Your seller is obviously not someone I would want to do business with. Make sure you note it in your feedback to him so others are aware of it.
posted on August 12, 2002 10:44:59 AM
It's a sellers duty to do what is best for their business. You probably wouldn't ever buy from this seller even if they did refund shipping, so the seller is doing the smart thing by not refunding money already paid to a third party for their service which was rendered.
Seller made a mistake with the item, not the shipping, and he said he'd correct his mistake by refunding the item price. That's fair.
posted on August 12, 2002 02:31:29 PM
I always refunded shipping both ways.Out of all the transactions I've sold, I'm not going to lose that much.I want the customer to be happy.
posted on August 12, 2002 04:07:05 PMSeller made a mistake with the item, not the shipping, and he said he'd correct his mistake by refunding the item price. That's fair.
How can that be fair?? The buyer didn't make a mistake yet they're out money (the non-refunded shipping).
If the seller makes a mistake - which can happen, I've done it too - the buyer should not be out *anything*.
posted on August 12, 2002 04:11:59 PM
"The buyer didn't make a mistake yet they're out money (the non-refunded shipping)."
Yea they did. They bought from someone who didn't have a guarantee to refund postage. When making a bid your bid price should reflect this risk. So the bidder is most definitely at liable to cover loss on shipping.
posted on August 12, 2002 05:00:30 PM
I think quick is trolling here. It just makes no sense that the buyer loses the shipping. Just because the seller didn't specify "If I screw up and send the wrong item, you lose the shipping"!??? Puhleeze.
posted on August 12, 2002 05:07:48 PM
No matter if the buyer wants a refund due to damage, loss or what ever reason.
I refund the full cost they paid including shipping, I usually don't require a return of the item at all just a picture of the item I sent the damage and the package showing my shipping label, under most condition I tell the buyer I do not want the item back the cost of paying out the refund and shipping cost back to me would just make the whole problem more costly to me.
How ever I can see the sellers view of not refunding shipping if they already mailed the Item out they paid the postage already they didnt mess that up, even the PO when you insure an Item will not return the cost of postage on a damaged item.
posted on August 12, 2002 05:07:53 PM
I think rgrem is trolling because it makes no sense that the seller would be responsible for covering shipping when he didn't specify a guarantee. Puhleeze!
posted on August 12, 2002 05:29:08 PM
I think we are confusing the "guarantee" of an item with "the gross screwup of a seller". They are not the same thing. I wouldn't dream of sending a wrong item and then trying to stick the buyer with my error. But then, we each act on our conscience.
posted on August 12, 2002 06:07:44 PM
Legaleze aside, I note that every other poster here would take the high road and do the right thing. Glad to see that.
posted on August 12, 2002 06:10:46 PM
Yea, afterall it is easier to conform and feel better knowing others support you rather than be an individual and create a business that isn't just another copycat.
Praise the Lord for conformists, without them who could buyers manipulate?
[ edited by quickdraw29 on Aug 12, 2002 06:12 PM ]
posted on August 12, 2002 06:22:22 PM
Thanks. Proud to be associated with honest, ethical sellers. The fact that others have chosen the high road has seldom prevented my doing the same. Good night.
posted on August 12, 2002 09:35:36 PM
I do it on a case by case basis, but very rarely do I refund shipping.
But then, our accuracy rate is pretty high. We seldom ship the wrong item. Each is labelled with both the auction number and the eBay id of the winner, and both are checked when the item is picked. We'll be implementing a bar code system soon to make the picking process even more efficient.
We have many other policies that would horrify AW readers, many of whom seem to believe the eBay seller should charter a Lear jet to deliver each sold-at-90%-off-retail item personally.
posted on August 13, 2002 12:19:53 AM
Ah, quickdraw gave us all some good ideas! Since business isn't too hot, lets all of us sending the wrong items , and charge them priority but ship media, so we can make more on shipping plus charge the poor customers DOUBLE shipping charge! We'll all be powersellers...not! Wanna bet if the same happens to quickdraw, he would be crying foul on this board if he gets the wrong item and the seller refuse to refund him the shipping and return shipping as well? Just a thought...... (
posted on August 13, 2002 05:43:49 AM
I thonk if you check the law, if the seller makes the mistake and full refund is required. If the customer is dissatified, only purchase price is refunded. No TOS in the world can change that.
.
Reality is a serious condition brought on by a lack of alcohol in the system
posted on August 13, 2002 08:24:43 PM
THEY ARE THE ONES ASKING FOR SHIPPING.....OTHERWISE DRIVE RIGHT OVER AND PICK IT UP. IF THEY DON'T LIKE IT WHEN THEY GET IT HOME DRIVE RIGHT BACK AND I WILL BE MORE THAN HAPPY TO GIVE THEM THEIR MONEY BACK. GAS MONEY????? ARE YOU CRAZY!!!! NEVER HAPPEN IN THE REAL WORLD EITHER. YOU THINK K MART IS GOING TO REFUND THEIR GAS, HAHAHAHAHAH, HAHAHAHAHAH, HAHAHAHAHAHA. NOT FOR ME TO SAY, SORRY.
I WRITE WHIF A KRAYON, I AM ALMOST 5.
[ edited by JACKSWEBB on Aug 14, 2002 01:34 AM ]
posted on August 13, 2002 08:30:39 PM
I recently sold an item to a lady in Texas that arrived badly damaged. I immediately sent her a check for the full purchase price plus shipping. I then filed a claim with FedEx Ground. FedEx immediately processed the claim and sent me a check for exactly what I claimed, which included the cost of the item and the shipping. Here's where it get interesting. FedEx contacted the customer, told them to put the item back in the box, and they would pick it up. They then shipped the item back to me. There were no c.o.d. charges for shipping, and I haven't received a bill from them yet. They said it was their policy to return the damaged item to the shipper. Just wondering if anyone else has had this experience with FedEx Ground? Will they eat the return shipping, or will I be getting a bill from them? I might add that the shipment was late getting there, but there was a great deal of flooding in Texas at the time and they had a few backlogs. I'm just wondering if the refund of shipping to me was part of their on time delivery guarantee, and the return of the item is normally absorbed by them .
The light at the end of the tunnel will turn out to be an oncoming train.
posted on August 14, 2002 12:52:08 AM
The buyer should receive a full refund including associated costs, or receive the correct item without additional shipping fees.
If the seller wants the wrong item returned, then the seller should pay the return shipping fee.
If the both parties refuse to pay for return shipping, then the buyer is left with a misrepresented item. IOW, buyer paid for A and got B. That is fraud.
posted on August 14, 2002 09:15:59 AM
An interesting section on the UCC (uniform commercial code), the foundation of US law in this type of situation (seller breaches contract by sending wrong item)
Article 220 and Article 2B recognize this rule. As Article 2B puts it,21 "Remedies must be liberally administered with the purpose of placing the aggrieved party in as good a position as if the other party had fully performed."
Speaking very simplistically,22 there are three kinds of damages (money). If Seller gives Customer a defective product, the damages look like this:
Benefit of the Bargain: The seller must give the customer a refund or pay the customer the difference between the purchase price and the actual value of the defective product.23
Incidental Damages: The seller must reimburse the customer for the handling and processing costs of dealing with the seller's breach of contract. These include repaying the customer for the cost of her phone calls to the seller to report the problem, the customer's cost of mailing the product back to the seller, and the customer's cost of shopping for a new program.24
Consequential Damages: The seller reimburses the customer for additional losses that were caused by the software's bugs, such as the cost of reloading data onto an erased hard disk or lost profits or treatment expenses for a personal injury. Rules that protect sellers from unfairness prevent customers from recovering all of their consequential losses.25
The UCC does allow s seller and a customer to agree in their contract to remedy limitations, such as agreeing that the seller will never give the customer more than a refund.26 However, some States make it much harder to use this limitation than other States. For example, some States require that the remedy limitation be conspicuous before or at the time of the sale.27
So the bottom line, is that unless the seller conspicuously limits their liability, not only are they required to refund the cost of the item PLUS the shipping, they are also potentially liable for other damages (the costs of dealing with the problem, etc).
</surprise>
