rewardman
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posted on September 30, 2002 05:43:52 PM
Ok, here is the deal... I'm looking for advice on how to handle this:
A bid and win an item from a seller that says in their listing "PayPal can be arranged."
Then when he sends me the EOA information he mentions, "Paypal payments will need to add 3% to cover the paypal transaction fees! If you don't want to pay the fees then please select other form of payment."
How can he do this ?! This was a $200 item, and I guess he wants me to tack on an extra 6 bucks to cover HIS fees for PayPal. I wasn't planning on buying a money order or sending him a check and waiting for it to clear. I planned on using PayPal.
My question is... does eBay allow sellers to act like this? Does PayPal allow sellers to act like this?
This guy is a PowerSeller with 5000+ feedback, and has been on eBay over 5 years. I thought they would know better than that! Why doesn't he have a business model by now that would support his own "COST OF DOING BUSINESS".
Yeah, it torques me up... because if I would have known THOSE terms, I would have never bid.
(... I know this question has been asked before... but how do you search the message center here for past posts... everytime I find a link to search it searches auctions -- is the message search function buried deep somewhere?!)
Thanks for your help.
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tooltimes
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posted on September 30, 2002 05:56:50 PM
turn em in to ebay
http://cgi3.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?MfcISAPICommand=GetRNSWebFormShow&flag1=0&flag2=1&flag3=8&rcode=420100061000000&subjecttier1=Questionable+Content+on+eBay&subjecttier2=Listing+Issues&Query=Payment+Surcharges+%26%23150%3B+Additional+fees+based+on+form+of+payment
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bear1949
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posted on September 30, 2002 05:56:58 PM
It is illegal for him to do this. The fact that it is not mentioned in his TOS (that he wishes to add 3% for PayPal) shows it is an attempt to defraud. If he had stated it in his TOS Ebay would, if notified, closed the auction.
Just get the MO to pay them & don't buy from them again.
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paloma91
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posted on September 30, 2002 05:58:00 PM
My opinion, for what it's worth. He did say paypal can be arranged. so there was a catch right there. If I were him, I would have stipulated my terms more completely. If I were you, I wouldnt use Paypal. I can understand your side too. It would be easier for you to just use paypal and get it over with alot quicker. If you are thinking of using them for any other reason than speed of payment or easy use, Believe me, they are not worth it.
As a seller, I refuse to use Paypal. This is one of the many reasons I dont and list that fact in all of my auctions. Might I suggest Bidpay.com. They are just as fast and safe. They only thing is that they do charge a fee for their payments. How about the post office for a money order?
Anyone else have any thoughts on the subject?
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toollady
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posted on September 30, 2002 06:03:27 PM
If I'm not mistaken, it is also against PayPal's TOS to charge for seller fees.
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twelvepole
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posted on September 30, 2002 06:26:20 PM
Copy the email and send it to paypal and eBay.
This is not allowed and don't allow him to bully you into it.
After you get your item, drop a little neg in the old feedback stating that he trys to charge a surcharge for paypal.
Ain't Life Grand... 
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capotasto
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posted on September 30, 2002 06:55:07 PM
"can be arranged" should have been a clue.
I'd just send him a check and wait for it to clear. You sound impatient.
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vvalhalla
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posted on September 30, 2002 07:12:03 PM
Paypal is only offered as a payment option, you have all sorts of alternative payment methods. You can waste your time and report it, there will be no conseqences for the seller. Consider it a convenience fee and pay it if you want the convenience.
dd
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Libra63
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posted on September 30, 2002 08:32:56 PM
Powerseller or any other seller CANNOT charge a surtax for PayPal. It is against PayPal's TOS and also if paid by credit card it is against Visa and Mastercard. Pay him by PalPal but only pay what you are supposed to and see what he does. If he get huffy with you then turn him in.
If a surcharge is charged then eBay will pull their auctions No matter which way you look at it it is illegal. Why should you pay for a service that benefits the seller.
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stonecold613
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posted on September 30, 2002 08:55:32 PM
I wish I could find a link to this judgement, but to summarize a court judgement a while back, You cannot charge a surcharge if it is the only payment option given for a product or service. However, if you offer other payment options, then you can charge the surcharge for payment services including credit card charges if other free options are offered. That still don't over-ride the Paypal and ebay policy. Personally IMHO, if you don't want to pay the surcharge, send a check.
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twelvepole
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posted on September 30, 2002 10:25:22 PM
Horizontal Scrolling on message boards is BAD!
Anyway make sure you report this bozo.
Ain't Life Grand...
[ edited by twelvepole on Sep 30, 2002 10:26 PM ]
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tooltimes
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posted on September 30, 2002 11:02:44 PM
The horizontal scrolling was a result of the VERY long url link I posted so the original thread poster could report the seller. The other way that horizontal scrolling appears is when a very large image is posted to a message board. I noticed some horizontal scrolling on the BV boards when a poster posted a very long string of characters without a break.
There, all you ever wanted to know about excessive scrolling on a message board and more.
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twelvepole
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posted on September 30, 2002 11:05:29 PM
I see what you mean, it will not wrap as normal text would.
Still Horizontal scrolling is bad on message boards.
Edited to check url...
Ain't Life Grand...
[ edited by twelvepole on Sep 30, 2002 11:08 PM ]
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Japerton
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posted on October 2, 2002 05:57:46 PM
I had an item that a guy wanted to pay via credit card. I don't accept them.
I explained that I would have to pay a fee.
I also said that any seller who asks for one is doing an illegal act according to ebay.
He sent me a money order and all was good.
If you are working with a credit card and the seller can't take them, they are charged a fee.
Did the auction say no credit cards?
Just curious. I have upped my font size on the no credit cards.
But I don't know the circumstances, only explaining my experience.
Thanks
Japerton
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quickdraw29
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posted on October 3, 2002 09:49:42 AM
What's the big deal? If you want the convenience use paypal and pay the seller the fee. If you don't want the convenience, but want to save the extra charge, send a check.
So you're used to having the fees included in the price of the item, well, this is ebay and seller's don't have that luxury, so get used to it.
Everyone is entitled to my opinion.
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grishagt
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posted on October 3, 2002 10:05:46 AM
Seller offered you alternative options where you can save money. Use that option. You want the convinience of the rip-off service like Paypal, then you pay the fee. It is seller's right as he mentioned that along with accepted options the Paypal could be arranged. And what was you excuse for not asking seller about the Paypal issue prior to bidding? I for one like to resolve any issues before I go into the legally binding agreements, like bidding at the auction.
Like I said, Paypal is a rip-off and being a German company gets away with many things that no American company can. I am a Power Seller too and I would charge you a fee if you would insist on using Paypal as your the only choice for payment. I could care less what Paypal thinks about it right along with eBay.
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quickdraw29
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posted on October 3, 2002 10:18:43 AM
"I guess he wants me to tack on an extra 6 bucks to cover HIS fees for PayPal."
Yea, that's the way it works, buyer pays overhead. It's your fees, you bought something from him, and asked for the conveience of paypal, the seller did not demand you use paypal for his convenience.
Everyone is entitled to my opinion.
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Coonr
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posted on October 3, 2002 10:19:48 AM
You want the convinience of the rip-off service like Paypal, then you pay the fee. It is seller's right as he mentioned that along with accepted options...
Not so fast there......
Charging the buyer a FEE violates PayPal's terms of use. Therefore, it is NOT the seller's right.
Paypal is a rip-off and being a German company gets away with many things that no American company can.
You really should brush up. They are an AMERICAN company.
I would charge you a fee if you would insist on using Paypal...
And you would soon be NARU (Not A Registered User) on both eBay and PayPal.
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ahc3
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posted on October 3, 2002 10:27:05 AM
I would point out where on ebay and paypal is says that surcharges are not allowed, and give him the opportunity to reverse his position. If he didn't, I would not pay for the item, and turn him in to paypal and ebay. I'm a seller, I don't charge a surcharge because it is not allowed. Allowing sellers to get away with this hurts sellers who follow the rules.
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quickdraw29
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posted on October 3, 2002 10:31:33 AM
"Charging the buyer a FEE violates PayPal's terms of use. Therefore, it is NOT the seller's right."
Charging a fee is not against Paypal's TOS, but adding a Surcharge is. So the seller does have the right as long as he does it correctly. In this case, this seller did not do it correctly. But who cares? Are you an ethical buyer who wants to use paypal for your convenience then force the seller to eat your costs, or pass it on to the cash paying customer? Give me a break, I can't tolerate this ignorance.
Everyone is entitled to my opinion.
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quickdraw29
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posted on October 3, 2002 10:38:05 AM
"Allowing sellers to get away with this hurts sellers who follow the rules."
Don't spread your B.S. How does it hurt other sellers who don't add a surcharge? Wouldn't buyers be more inclined to buy from you if others are adding a surcharge but you aren't? Wouldn't buyers see your postage charge and be more inclined to buy from you rather than someone who has postage and paypal fees?
If you're eating costs than you are just a poor businessperson, don't blame it on other sellers who try to recoup their costs.
Competition is never fair, deal with it.
Everyone is entitled to my opinion.
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quickdraw29
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posted on October 3, 2002 10:43:54 AM
"Our ignorance is better than your ignorance." That's classic.
Everyone is entitled to my opinion.
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Coonr
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posted on October 3, 2002 10:44:25 AM
quickdraw,
I strongly suggest you review the rules (Terms Of Use) for PayPal. Would be a shame to be suspended for a stupid mistake.
No Surcharges. Under Visa, MasterCard, Discover and American Express regulations and the laws of several states, including California, merchants may not charge a fee to the buyer for accepting credit card payments (often called a "surcharge" . You agree that you will not impose a surcharge or any other fee for accepting PayPal as payment. This restriction does not prevent you from imposing a handling fee in connection with the sale of goods or services, as long as the handling fee does not operate as a surcharge (in other words, the handling fee for transactions paid through PayPal may not be higher than the handling fee for transactions paid through other payment methods).
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quickdraw29
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posted on October 3, 2002 11:04:48 AM
Coonr, didn't I aleady state no surcharges are allowed? Here's what I said, "Charging a fee is not against Paypal's TOS, but adding a Surcharge is."
Apparently you didn't read this part of the Paypal TOS: "as long as the handling fee does not operate as a surcharge
(in other words, the handling fee for transactions paid through PayPal may not be higher than the handling fee for transactions paid through other payment methods).
There you have it, a seller can charge all buyers a fee, just not Paypal users alone. Thanks for proving my point.
Everyone is entitled to my opinion.
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Coonr
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posted on October 3, 2002 11:15:02 AM
Perhaps you do not understand this sentence.
You agree that you will not impose a surcharge or any other fee for accepting PayPal as payment.
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quickdraw29
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posted on October 3, 2002 11:35:41 AM
Granted our education system sucks, but please try to learn on your own:
Did you read the whole thing or just what you wanted to read?
Here:
"This restriction does not prevent you from imposing a handling fee in connection with the sale of goods or services, as long as the handling fee does not operate as a surcharge (in other words, the handling fee for transactions paid through PayPal may not be higher than the handling fee for transactions paid through other payment methods).
Notice where it says in the first sentence it says, "this restriction does not prevent you imposing..."
Everyone is entitled to my opinion.
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thchaser200
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posted on October 3, 2002 11:54:59 AM
Where this guy is making the mistake is stating that there is a 3% mark up for using PayPal. What he could have done was to say that there is a 3% discount for not using PayPal and that would not be against any ones rules and still get the the same point accross.
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uaru
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posted on October 3, 2002 11:58:58 AM
If I give a buyer a 3% surcharge, eBay makes nothing on that 3% surcharge.
If I give a buyer a 3% discount, eBay loses nothing on that 3% discount.
That in a nutshell should explain to some why
eBay will disallow credit card surcharges.
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quickdraw29
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posted on October 3, 2002 12:09:18 PM
"That in a nutshell should explain to some why
eBay will disallow credit card surcharges."
Ebay doesn't allow cc surcharges now!
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Coonr
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posted on October 3, 2002 12:21:57 PM
What you have yet to accept is,
You cannot change a fee for accepting PayPal.
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