pepperbyte
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posted on October 14, 2002 12:05:44 AM
We all pay for store services (now), image hosting services etc. I don't think any company has the right to use my auctions on say, ebay to advertise the services I pay them for. Even if these are listing services. If they want to be a partner in the auction by advertising their wares and services then they are liable in whole for the auction as I am.
There is a difference in identifying something and advertising and I feel AuctionWatch has presented themselves in the manner of an advertisement in both space, size and wording.
Does anyone feel the same way?
Does anyone feel they should cough up a little of the listing fee if they are going to take up the page in such a bold manner?
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sanmar
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posted on October 14, 2002 12:10:30 AM
I'm sorry, but I don't follow you. What are you trying to say?
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pepperbyte
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posted on October 14, 2002 12:44:46 AM
Let me help you sanmar, I'm not trying to say anything, I am saying it quite clearly. I will give an example. If Ford were to use a service to paint their cars would you expect your Thunderbird to have an Earl Schibe (ha!) logo welded onto the back bumper. I don't see Ford doing that so why does AuctionWatch paste themselves all over my ebay listings because I pay them to place the listing.
If they want to become part of it in such a big way let them be part of it in liability and all other aspects. When I buy a car from a dealer the first thing I tell them is to take off all their advertising or pay me. If AuctionWatch wants to pay me to be in my auctions then they can take up space.
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tooltimes
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posted on October 14, 2002 06:47:45 AM
You've got to realise that AW is barely making a profit. A cheap way to advertise and keep in the public eye is to paste their logo all over your auctions. It goes with the service. You're on the AW team. That's how AW and Andale and the free counters and Ink Frog and all of the other services view it anyway.
The alternate is to list your auction items yourself.
I like your analogy of the Earl Schibe logo welded on the back bumper. It is more like the Ford Explorer nameplates attached in several places on every Explorer. You're promoting both Ford and Explorer and there's no way in hell they will remove the logos just because you don't like them. 
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twelvepole
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posted on October 14, 2002 06:57:45 AM
I agree pepperbyte, and yes tooltimes that is the reason I no longer use AW...
I refuse to pay them to advertise on my auctions.
I do use a free image hosting service, and have no problem with them adding ads to my auctions.
However, if you are a large volume seller, your choices are limited and AW is no worse or better than the next site, just need to decide if it is worth it for you and your bottom line.
Ain't Life Grand... 
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baylor45
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posted on October 14, 2002 02:56:56 PM
Depending on how many items you have for auctions, you can go in and revise them to remove the AW banner at the bottom of the page. Just edit the description and remove the language (it is at the bottom). NOW...I wouldn't do that, oh no, not me. I am a good auctionwatch team mate.
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tooltimes
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posted on October 14, 2002 03:32:25 PM
If you really like AW you may want to enhance it's survival chances by allowing the AW ads in your auctions.
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pepperbyte
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posted on October 14, 2002 09:27:22 PM
I am part of the AW "team". Once a month my credit card statement reminds me of how they are "just" staying in business. There are no discounts for being a billboard for them.
I don't get to advertise any of my businesses free on AW so why do they feel they can slip an ad for their tools in another service like ebay that I pay for.
They are reducing their survival chances by making themselves an injected voluntary player in my auctions. Their tools and ebay's auctions are not one and the same. AW is using my space against my wishes and control. If their tool had a switch in it where I could turn this off or on that would be a different story. So now they are liable for the auction as a partner. Hello to the real world AW!
AW's survival chances will be increased, tooltimes, if they respect their customers and not use them.
Here is the CS response:
Hello,
This is nothing new. We have always advertized our services on our
tools. This is what drives users to us, to sign up and pay for our
tools. We are not a required service - if you feel our tools provide you
a valuable service, sign up for and pay for them. If you do not feel our
tools will work for you the way they are designed, we will be more than
happy to pass along suggestions on your behalf, but our banners will
always be part of them.
Best Regards,
Chris
AuctionWatch Customer Service
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ahc3
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posted on October 14, 2002 10:19:23 PM
I don't understand the complaint, they have always done this. If you don't like it, then find a different way to do business. This isn't information that is not disclosed to you beforehand...
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pepperbyte
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posted on October 14, 2002 11:05:04 PM
ah3c,
I guess you think that if someone always does something it makes it right. Well AW raises it rates. That changes things does it not? So they might want to change the messages and space they take up in others auctions. Don't you think?
However I like the idea of simply making a macro to edit out their ads and even logos. Hey maybe someone will write an editing tool to deal with this. AW could and charge us for it.
Oh but that changes things!
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tooltimes
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posted on October 14, 2002 11:35:45 PM
They all do it so there is nothing you can do about it except list your own auctions and perhaps use the other AW services.
If AW doesn't get new users they won't last long and they know that fact.
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rgrem
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posted on October 15, 2002 05:04:11 AM
If we are talking about the little aw logo, and the 1-line promo, way at the end of our listings; I can't see the problem. I'll bet most lookers don't even scroll down that far. And it certainly doesn't interfere with or mess up the listing. I like what auctionwatch does for me with their very minor fees and they can have that bottom 1/2 inch OUTSIDE of my ad.
I'll bet that anyone leaving AW for that little bit of "advertising" they do in our listings, has left for other reasons or perhaps isn't a user, anyway.
[ edited by rgrem on Oct 15, 2002 05:08 AM ]
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replaymedia
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posted on October 15, 2002 08:02:55 AM
I don't have a problem with them putting their little aed in my auction listings. So many sellers use one service or another that most casual buyers just ignore them.
The only ones who really care are the sellers who actually want to know how an ad was listed. I've found and tried several other services from seeing those little ads.
What I *DO* have an issue with is their advertising on the AW STORES. If I'm paying for a store, I want to advertise MYSELF, not them. I believe it is wrong to have any mention of them on the store pages.
Some people may say there's no difference, but I think there is. YOUR store is YOURS. eBay is a public auction site. AW should offer stores for FREE if their advertising is on the page. If they want to charge, then make the stores ad-free.
Note: I do not use AW stores. This is one of the reasons.
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pelorus
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posted on October 15, 2002 12:05:07 PM
I will accept AW's advertising. AW is very useful and cheap. I have plenty of experience with web sites that suddenly jack up prices so they are unaffordable or suddenly restrict services unless you pay them more. AW has always treated me well and made life easier.
Also, AW has a good track record of increasing features and services that the users want.
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ewora
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posted on October 15, 2002 12:25:20 PM
I joined up 2 1/2 years ago because I saw the AW advertising banner on somebody's auction and popped over here.
The information from the message center and the ease of auction launching got me started in the ebay selling business. Of course this was when the service was still free.
Over 2100 feedbacks later I am so glad I saw that little bit of advertisement.
They are welcome to advertise in my auctions.
edited for spelling...yikes
[ edited by ewora on Oct 15, 2002 12:26 PM ]
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buyhigh
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posted on October 15, 2002 04:39:01 PM
How do you think I would have found AW for image hosting if not for their banner? I notice e-Bay counters advertise Andale (and they frequently do not work.)
buyhigh
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pepperbyte
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posted on October 15, 2002 10:02:01 PM
Some people will spend good money (that's lots) on a shirt with some corporate logo printed all over it and just rave at how it fits and keeps them comfy. They buy the right to advertise someone's company.
How stylish! If I want to advertise someone else's services great, it's my choice. It would be nice to have the respect from some of thes idiot marketing types not to advertise their services as one of their customers. Having the choice is the respect element.
So now I have to go out of my way to edit out the AW ads in the "edit description" segment of ebay's revise your listing. It won't be long before this freedom of choice is respected.
As to that old arguement of don't use them or don't buy the shirt....a product and a service are 2 different things.
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tooltimes
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posted on October 15, 2002 11:29:01 PM
If I was the head of AW and heard of someone editing out the AW logos on their auctions I would ask them to leave and if the didn't go then I would kick them off. It's their bar and if you don't like their drinks then you can try another bar. JMHO
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pretegra345
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posted on October 16, 2002 12:37:45 AM
No offense, but please stop the whining -- if you don't like the fact that AW has their logo in their auction, either remove it or use something else.
Practically every product or service you buy is an advertisement for said product or service. Get over it and run your business and stop wasting your time worrying about the ads @ the botom of your auction.
Hell, for all you know a customer may see it and think that you're more serious then person X because you're paying a third party to manage your auctions and be more inclined to spend money with you.
Regardless -- this is a non issue, why do people always post about petty nonsense like this, instead of, I don't know, discussing ways to run our businesses better?
-M
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LuckyGiftsandTreasures
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posted on October 17, 2002 04:51:10 PM
when I started ebay (selling)I found AW because of those ads I notice a lot of people were using them so I signed up and have been happy ever since
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sapington
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posted on October 17, 2002 10:46:37 PM
Did you ever look at a billboard along the road? They have the name of the sign company on it just like AW does. Do you think all there advertisers complain?
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pepperbyte
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posted on October 18, 2002 10:06:01 AM
Ebay is the billboard owner. I am the advertiser. Of course ebay (and the others) can let us know whose service we are using.
AW is the painter. You don't see the guy that painted the billboard advertising.
Get this... AW is in the business of providing a service. We pay them. They do not have the right to advertise in the space we pay other services to give us. Not without our permission.
Some of the clowns here (unless they really work for AW) feel that if they grant this permission and feel ok about it that all the rest of us are supposed to.
How would they feel if AW said they were not going to advertise? Would this thread be reversed?
As far as looking professional, most professional services contract out but you would never know it because their pages are not a long list of ads.
I just want the option. I would even pay a little more for it. Right now I am comfy editing it out as is my right... I'll repeat that our right.
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eauctionmgnt
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posted on October 18, 2002 10:31:47 AM
Pepperbyte,
I hate to tell you... but it's not your right. If you are using AuctionWatch, you must abide by their terms of use. They clearly state in their User Agreement that:
AuctionWatch Banners. All images hosted by AuctionWatch must be accompanied by our click-through banner, or they will be subject to deletion without notice. The banner is included in our system generated code. Any alterations to the code that result in the elimination of our banner will place your images and account in jeopardy.
In other words... you edit out their advertisment... and they will choose not to do business with you. In my opinion, your analogies are all mixed up anyhow. Yes... AuctionWatch is a service based operation. BUT... their service is providing a product. The product is a custom-designed auction template. That product, is advertising their corporation.... just like thousands of other products out there. I see no problem with what AuctionWatch is doing. ESPECIALLY because the more advertising they do.. the more customers they get. The more customers they get... the easier it is to keep a low fee structure. So, it is my feeling that you should either abide by their terms, or take your business elsewhere (where you will likely run into the same problems!)
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pepperbyte
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posted on October 18, 2002 11:21:48 AM
You are almost right but not quite. I tell you what. I'll think about leaving if they don't want to give me the choice, as have many others and when the pyramid comes falling down you can pay the added cost to keep this lack of choice going.
That's real good business management... kinda like Enron's contracts.
They have no right to control or contract with my listing after it is listed unless they want to buy ebay.
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tooltimes
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posted on October 18, 2002 11:32:55 AM
I see your point about advertising for AW.
But you may want to go here and buy some great items to show that you love ebay.
http://www.ebaygear.com/
Meg needs more money, there hasn't been a decent IPO in month's
A CNBC report Thursday afternoon claimed Whitman made $1.78 million from her IPO activity.
from:
http://www.thestreet.com/markets/detox/10045897_2.html
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pretegra345
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posted on October 19, 2002 09:23:56 AM
Pyramids falling down? Enron?
What are you talking about?
It's not even remotely the same thing -- get a grip.
For AW to be comparable with Enron it would have to be, inventing profits, running the business as a Ponzi scheme, etc -- which is not the case, they're just placing a little ad in all the auctions, helping to keep your costs down and grow their business.
By your way of thinking, I should demand that Dell give me some of my money back, because people could see my Lap Top and decide that they want a Dell to.
Like I said, stop whining -- this has nothing to do with business....as a business you should pick an Auction Mgt. based on criterion such as dependability, user friendliness, compatibility with your business model, cost effectiveness, etc. NOT because you feel the need to whine about someone placing an ad within your auction.
But maybe it's just me, I make my decision based on what will bring in revenue & profits for my company.....not because I'm upset about a banner ad.
-M
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Japerton
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posted on October 19, 2002 06:09:08 PM
Look at it this way, if it wasn't for the pass through advertising link love, you wouldn't be paying the current price you are for AW's services.
Advertising is the subsidy for you.
Don't like it? Do as I do, get a domain name and host your own pictures, etc.
Japerton
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sparkz
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posted on October 19, 2002 07:09:20 PM
I can tell you right now, if you are editing out AW's logo in any of your auctions, it's only a matter of time until your account is nuked for good. Then you won't have to worry about it any more. Perhaps AW could create a new optional payment plan for those who want to create auctions without their logos. I suspect that you would be one of the very few signed up for it, though, after seeing what their charge per launched auction would be.
The light at the end of the tunnel will turn out to be an oncoming train.
[ edited by sparkz on Oct 19, 2002 07:24 PM ]
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pepperbyte
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posted on October 20, 2002 11:43:55 AM
I am amazed at how many people don't know what this is all about.
You can pay AW for image hosting and list your own auction linking to that image. You can do it with allot of outfits like Auction Hawk. Some are even less.
Then there is the sales management part. AW is not without issues that are constantly being improved.
When you pay them to post a listing they charge you for that service. You even get to view banner ads in that module. However your posting is yours and this is after the fact. I know AW wants to use every exposure they can get to advertise. Well love, they seem to want to charge their customers whenever they can for wanting the same thing.
I do not believe these are starving people that we all are getting such a great deal from. Hell, they don't even respond to me with any intelligent recognition to this issue.
If many people keep dropping off, or be kicked off as some feel they should be, you all that are left will migrate too. Why? Because the costs to you will go up as AW will not be picking up more new customers than they are kicking off.
You know what? They will not kiss off my annual income over an issue like this because there are so many others that need to feel they belong to a group they are willing to pay for this along with using an ad/logo for some kind of validation. I'm good money for nothing. Others set up their own web page. I AM LOOKING TO ADDRESS THE MIDDLE OF THE ROAD HERE. Pay for their service but not have every auction look like a damn scrap book of every internet service I use. Can you imagine if AOL demanded to be listed in your auction because they were your ISP?
This is no big deal to some so don't answer. Love your scrap book. But if you would like to have a choice, respond to AW and ask them. Ask them that if you provide a certain volume or what ever can this be made available.
For those who love the ads, ask them if you give them more space would they give you a discount. Ask them to share in this concept with you.
My next posting could include an ad for those who love them. Then I would be more like some and they would have a positive influence.
[ edited by pepperbyte on Oct 20, 2002 11:52 AM ]
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pretegra345
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posted on October 20, 2002 05:16:26 PM
Simple Math -
-AW Subsidizes the service by selling advertising and placing a banner in their customers auction listings (just like practically every other service out there).
Without the subsidy, the service would cost more..if you don't like it, talk to them about it and pay more.
Sure people can leave -- if their mathematically challenged and want to pay more someplace else, that places similar ads in their auction listings anyway.
Doesn't matter if they're starving or not ---the service would cost more without the ads, the end. If you don't like the ads, then PAY MORE and stop whining.
Stop trying to turn this into some sort of political issue where your rights are being violated --- AW is a business, Seller's are running a business -- so it comes down to dollars and cents....if you don't like the ads, pay more, or go elsewhere.......which is silly since everyone advertisers in their user's auctions.
I don't know about you -- but the reason I don't care about the ads isn't because I want to belong to a club, in fact, I could care less about belonging to the "AW Community" or eBay's for that matter --- my company is a profit generating enterprise that generates said profits via sales on eBay and other venues -- any tool/web site/payment service/whatever that helps me with that goal is going to get my business.
So you can whine all you want -- but I see no need to pay more for services elsewhere because of an ad at the bottom of my auction--- especially since it's not hurting my business ---- and doesn't AW pay you a commission on any sales generated through that banner.
Stop whining and run your business.
-M
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