posted on October 19, 2002 03:15:32 AM new
Hi folks,
This is a bit long, but please be patient. I'm trying to help my sister who is very new to eBay. She recently purchased Louis Vuitton items from two different sellers and is having major problems.
Item number 1: Possible counterfeit.
A duffel bag was represented as authentic. When she received it, she saw no markings or serial number(s) stamped anywhere in it. She e-mailed the seller asking about it, and he said he'd check with his supplier. Next thing you know, he changed his e-mail address so she can't send him any more messages. I told her that she can get contact info from eBay, and that if it's wrong eBay will suspend him.
Item number 2: Seller misrepresentation.
This was luggage that was described as having a few scuffs, but that they did not detract from the appearance. She got the luggage, and she said it looked like someone had dragged it behind a car. It's completely covered with scuffs, and the leather is worn through in places. She said she'd be too embarrassed to use the luggage even if she'd gotten it for free!
On the first item, she already started a chargeback through her credit card company. As far as I know, she has not done anything about a chargeback with the second item yet. Both sellers indicated "no returns."
My questions are:
1. In either of these situations, would filing a chargeback through PayPal be appropriate or do any good?
2. Since she filed one chargeback through her bank, is she in deep doo-doo for not going through PayPal first?
3. If PayPal would be effective for item number 1, can she drop the dispute with the credit card company and go through PayPal instead without jeopardizing her rights?
4. Is she just SOL on these transactions?
I guess I might need Damon's help on the first two questions, but I'd really appreciate your expert opinions on all of them (I get SO much great info here!). I know there are a lot of PayPal bashers out there, but I'm sending her a link to this thread--please keep the invective to a dull roar since I don't want to frighten her away from using it!
Thanks SO much for your help since I don't have enough experience in this to help her out.
posted on October 19, 2002 04:38:54 AM new
If she paid through PayPal, then that assumes that she AGREED to PayPal's TERMS of USE before she sent her first payment. THUS, she really was obligated to follow PayPal's BUYER'S PROTECTION procedures BEFORE filing a charge-back with her CC company.
Basically, my point is, if ya don't like PayPal's terms, simply DON'T USE PAYPAL!.
I believe that PayPal will be very unhappy that she didn't follow procedure -- most likely, her account will be killed & her ability to use PayPal in the future will be affected
posted on October 19, 2002 05:07:37 AM new
A simpler answer would be " I believe Paypal is only concerned with non-delivery, nothing else."
[ edited by rgrem on Oct 19, 2002 11:59 AM ]
posted on October 19, 2002 05:11:09 AM new
PayPal doesn't cover for misrepresented items unless the buyer insurance was purchased through PayPal (this is something new and I'm not sure what it covers).
You only do a chargeback through them if the item wasn't received.
Depending on the final bid, your sister may be covered under eBay's insurance program.
posted on October 19, 2002 06:19:14 AM newtirade?? Methinks ye got up on the wrong side of the cage this AM!
My comments were NEUTRAL -- I neither approve nor disapprove of PayPal's TOS -- just commenting on the fact of their existance.
This is the way PayPal works. They require that a buyer follows the BUYER PROTECTION PROGRAM terms BEFORE resorting to one's credit card company for relief.
I neither agree NOR disagree with this policy -- however it DOES exist! From what I've gleaned from these boards and others, PayPal will terminate accounts that file chargebacks WITHOUT FIRST following procedure -- if one does not like these policies...DON'T USE PAYPAL -- SIMPLE
posted on October 19, 2002 06:29:19 AM new
Have no contact with your sisters paypal account. If paypal can establish a link between you and your sisters account paypal will associate you with the deficiency caused by the credit card chargeback. You may or may not held responsible for the deficiency. If you already have accessed her account, remove your money.
Your sister has a right to do a credit card chargeback on both transactions. Using that right is against paypal's TOU. Paypal will get the money back from the slime ball sellers plus a fee. Your sister will not be able to use paypal again but there are other options.
posted on October 19, 2002 06:58:29 AM new
If you are not satisified with your purchase, it is your CONSUMER RIGHT to file a chargeback. There is nothing PayPal can do to circumvent FEDERAL CONSUMER LAW.
However, PayPal will be very upset you have violated the rules of their kingdom. They will probably try to get the money back FROM YOU because obviously the seller is dishonest and would require some effort on their part to get a hold of them. Close your PayPal account now! If your bank account is attached, close your bank account or else they will rob you.
I live in my own little world, but it is Okay...They know me here.
[ edited by mlecher on Oct 19, 2002 06:59 AM ]
posted on October 19, 2002 08:22:42 AM new
PayPal's rules are in VIOLATION of Federal Consumer Protection Laws and will eventually bite them where the sun don't shine.....
I live in my own little world, but it is Okay...They know me here.
posted on October 19, 2002 08:29:53 AM new
You are out of luck with paypal on these.
I had a similar situation where the auction showed a genuine item and the seller sent a fake item much different than what was shown in the scan.
Basically the seller can mail you a rock but as long as they sent you something, paypal will not get involved.
When I see no returns in an auction, I translate it to "Do not bid because you will get ripped off".
posted on October 19, 2002 09:19:27 AM new
Gosh, people. Someone asks a simple question and suddenly everybody is yelling at each other.
Paypal will not get involved in disputes about the quality of the item. They are only concerned that the item is delivered. That being said, you must always file a claim with Paypal and let them deny it before filing a chargeback with the credit card company. If you do that, they won't close your account. Since your sister did not follow the rules, they will close her account and she won't be able to use Paypal anymore.
posted on October 19, 2002 09:33:37 AM new
vvalhalla
Paypal expressly states that they can't abridge your rights to do a CC chargeback. But part of their TOS is that you file a complaint with them first. As long as you do that, you are usually fine. I did file a claim with Paypal that was approved but the seller had no money in their acct (seller never sent item). I then did the chargeback. Paypal did close my acct. I saw a post by Damon saying they would not do this, so I told him that they did it to me. He asked me for the info, I gave it to him and they re-opened my acct.
mcbrunnhilde
If your sister also sells online, I would change her email address so that when Paypal closes her acct, she won't continue to get payments that she can't do anything with. If she signed up after Oct 2001 and did not set up a bank acct specifically for dealing with Paypal, I would change the bank acct on the acct. Users who signed up after Oct 2001 gave Paypal the right to take money from their bank acct to cover negative balances. I am not sure if they would use it in this circumstance, but I would not take a chance.
posted on October 19, 2002 09:47:13 AM new
have you contacted the ebay VERO folks??they are very keen on catching sellers who sell fake stuff like channel,like luis vuitton,like yve st laurent etc.
posted on October 19, 2002 10:46:36 AM new
Stormypetr
Credit card chargeback had already been filed. Too late to change that part of the equation.
I'm glad you were able to reopen your paypal account. Damon is a well kept secret, how many other paypal users know of him and his abilities?
dd
posted on October 19, 2002 05:02:09 PM new
Thanks for all the comments, folks! I had forgotten about eBay's buyer protection program, so I appreciate the link, toollady. I don't know if her transaction would qualify, but knowledge is power.
If anyone has other help or comments, please feel free to join in!
