posted on January 22, 2003 07:39:17 PM new
I don't sell much, and I have never had a problem with a buyer before... Here are the emails that have been exchanged - did I do something wrong? Is there something I should do to make this situation better?
My auctions state that I only ship to the U.S. This package weighs 5 lbs. My auctions also state I take Paypal and Money Orders, email for details.
Original Email:
Would you ship to Canada ? If so, how much would it cost?
My reply:
I have never shipped to Canada before, but am willing to do so. I put in
the weight of the package at the usps.com site, and Airmail Parcel post will
be $17.00. If I can fit it into a Global priority envelope, it will be only
$8.50, but I don't know if it will fit - I haven't seen one of their
envelopes.
Economy (Surface) parcel post is for some reason more than the Global
Priority...
Ok, at this point she bids, and wins the auction. I send her the following email immediatly after she wins:
Can you send me your postal code? I'm trying to find you the best shipping
rate, and UPS and FedEx are wanting a postal code for Canada.
USPS is $17.00 - I can not fit this large amount of [widgets] in a Global
Priority envelope.
Airborne Express is $50 (eeek!)
Ok, so now, 48 hours go by, and I didn't hear anything from her, so I send my standard end of auction notice with the $17 shipping charge.
She then replies to my email asking for the postal code (the one sent over 48 hours ago) with this email:
I'm not sure if I have received your mailing address or not. I can't seem
to find it. Nor can I find the total amount owed to you with shipping.
Please let me know.
To which I respond:
I have sent you two emails so far... One I wanted your postal code, so I
could get a more accurate shipping amount (sent on 1/19). Since I did not
receive it, I decided to go the USPS route, which is $17 (US). I sent you
an email last night with the total - I've included a copy below. I do not
accept payments through the mail - only electronic payments.
[snip copy of eoa notice with totals]
I accept the following forms of payments
Credit Card and e-check through PayPal.
Money Orders through Bidpay.
Your item will be shipped as soon as payment has cleared through the payment
service.
She then responds ("at top" I'm assuming means what eBay puts in at the top of every auction - It has the standard "see item description" - my payment terms are at the bottom of the auction):
I read your payment description at the top and it does not specify that
money orders have to be sent by way of electronic payment. I do not have an
account with any of those services. You should have been more clear in your
auction. I will be more than happy to send you a money order the old
fashioned way. I am not prepared to pay an additonal fifteen dollars for
the use of those services. You also stated in a previous e-mail that you
might be able to get shipping for $8. You are now telling me that it will
be roughly $20. I too, am looking forward to a smooth transaction and so
far you are not helping.
So, I send her my physical address to send a Money Order to and this...
I stated that USPS shipping was $17 (not $20), and that I might be able to
fit the items in a flat rate envelope, but I did not know what size the
envelope was - this was stated before you bid. I saw the envelope at the
Post Office yesterday, it will not fit even one [widget], much
less a lot of 5 [widgets]. I asked for your postal code on 1/19 so that I could find a
less expensive way to ship your items, but you have not sent that to me, so
I can not research other shipping options. Fedex, and UPS require a postal
code for Canada before giving rate quotes.
I was trying to be as helpful as I can by researching shipping options to
save you money. In my payment description, it cleary states to email for
details on payment options.
To which she replies...
I have purchased many items through e-bay from the States. I recently
purchased [widgets] which weigh 23 pounds and shipping costs were only
$18.00. This was the ACTUAL cost. I have also received [widgets] shipped in
small boxes which cost roughly $5- $8.00 from the States as well. Now
you're telling me that shipping [widgets] is going to cost as much as it
would to ship a 23 pound parcel ????
And this is the point I get a little snotty:
You asked me before you bid how much shipping was, and I told you then $17.
You then placed your bid and won the auction.
I tried to work with you to find a cheaper way to ship this [widget], but
you have not given me the requested postal code so I can get quotes from
other shippers.
At this point, you are either going to pay the stated shipping, or you
won't. It's up to you. Let me know what you decide so I can proceed
accordingly.
posted on January 22, 2003 08:00:12 PM new
Best to forget the fedex, ups route as they will charge a hefty customs fee for your bidder.
However, you are right in the fact that she should of asked before bidding.
I would just give the cost of airmail or ground service. Sounds like she bit off more than she can chew at this point.
As far as payment goes, bidpay is not that over priced at all. Safe money order for you.
An international postal money order to you would also work for you as it cost you nothing to cash at the post office.[very safe and better than PP.]
Just give her this info and wait for your money. If she still balks, then treat her as any other deadbeat.
I.E.Bidder did not follow sellers tos etc...
posted on January 22, 2003 09:40:06 PM new
There is a 4 LB limit on the global priority envelope anyway so airmail or EMS are the only options I would give them.
The part about the 23 LB package for $18 was either a lie or a long time ago.
I would tell them they agreed to pay $17 for shipping so that is what they have to pay.
One other thing for shipping to another country that I would recomend. If you don't have it boxed already and a good scale to weigh it, then add an extra pound for looking up the rate. If it goes a little over you could have to eat a big difference in the cost.
posted on January 23, 2003 06:20:28 AM new
She responded today!
Her response to my last email:
Are you telling me you don't know my address ????
Is that what you are saying ???? That information is readily available
through e-bay. My address is:
[snip address]
ARRGGGHHHH! I don't like requesting contact info through eBay, as it then shows my contact information to them - I'm sort of a private person, which is why I only take electronic payments. I don't really want complete strangers to have my phone number... Would it have been so hard for her to type out 6 digits in the first place?
So, this is what I send her this morning, after sticking her postal code into UPS...
Thank you,
I can ship by UPS for $12.00, takes about a week to get to you. I will ship
after I receive your payment.
Please let me know how you wish to have this package shipped so I can get
the proper documents ready.
She immediatly emails me with this:
You gave me a number of rates for shipping to the States. Not just one. On
tuesday I was at the hospital with my daughter and I'm sooo sorry I couldn't
get back to you in the time frame that you arbitrarily selected for me.
I've won about six auctions within the last week and you have to be the most
hostile seller I have dealt with so far. I'm sorry if you didn't get the
price you thought you should get for your items but it doesn't seem fair
that you are trying to up the price with huge shipping costs. If this can't
be resolved I will have no option but to pay you the amount you have
requested. But believe me, when I get the parcel, if the shipping rate on
the box is less than what I paid, YOU will be hearing from me and so will
E-BAY.
I don't even want to sell to her at this point, as there is no way she is going to be happy. I have inflated my shipping by $1.00 to cover the cost of the box, since I was planning to only ship in the U.S. I was going to use Priority and use a Priority box - but now I will need to at least go searching for a used box, if not go buy a box.
I think I would probably be within my legal rights to refuse the sell since my auctions do state that I only ship to the US - I'm sure I'll get a negative out of it, but if I don't give her one (I would probably give a praise, but she at least deserves a neutral), and simply state "International buyer - bid on US shipping only auction" - maybe she would just look foolish.
posted on January 23, 2003 07:27:27 AM new
Why don't you send her the link to the USPS site and let her look it up herself? UPS is a few dollars cheaper on the shipping but then they hit your customer with a HUGE brokerage fee (from $15 to $30).
If she send you a Candian postal money order in US funds, your Post Office will cash it for you. If you take payment electronically (Paypal, etc) she can charge it back because you can not prove delivery.
posted on January 23, 2003 07:46:12 AM new
I just sent her an email suggesting that we mutually decide not to complete the transaction. There is no way I'm going to make this lady happy.
I'm willing to take the negative...
But what do I have to do with eBay? Can I just make a second chance offer? Do I have to file a Non Paying Bidder alert, even though it was mutually decided?
I've seen "non-selling seller" info on eBay, but it doesn't address what to do if someone bids on a US only auction that is not in the US....
posted on January 23, 2003 08:10:16 AM newBut what do I have to do with eBay?
Just put in that the bidder did not follow your tos.
If she does neg you, report it to ebay under the same heading and you have a good chance that they will remove it.
Its too bad that this bidder is such a live wire as I find my international bidders to be very good to deal with.
Time to relist, file for your fees and put this person on your bidding and email block.
posted on January 23, 2003 08:24:04 AM newHere are the emails that have been exchanged - did I do something wrong?
Yes. You were willing to throw out your TOS the first time anyone asked. It said U.S. only in your auction; you should have stuck to that.
Having gone wrong, you continue to veer wide of the mark:
If I can fit it into a Global priority envelope, it will be only $8.50, but I don't know if it will fit - I haven't seen one of their envelopes.
A buyer reading this is not going to see the if-if-if; they are going to see the $8.50.
Buyers will expect you to be the shipping expert. If you don't know whether or not a particular method of shipping will work, don't even mention it.
If you want to avoid issues like this in the future, make your TOS crystal clear and stick to it. And a last word of advice: ditch the "electronic payments only" proviso. Bidders expect to be able to mail a payment. That's just a fact of life. If you stick with online payments only, you are going to have about 30% of your high bidders bail on you. (We know, we tried this ourselves.)
[ edited by fluffythewondercat on Jan 23, 2003 08:24 AM ]
posted on January 23, 2003 08:27:41 AM new
You are doing the right thing. File for your fees, block her from bidding and relist. If she negs you, respond calmly and neg her back.
Even if you reached a satisfactory mail solution, she would probably ask you to lie on the customs form or find something else to whine about.
I've shipped internationally and had no real problems. I don't think the problem here is international shipping, it's the bidder.
[ edited by jensmome on Jan 23, 2003 08:29 AM ]
posted on January 23, 2003 10:07:52 AM new
I agree with Jensmome! Cut her loose. After all, she is more than likely going to be upset with the item once it arrives and neg you anyway!
posted on January 23, 2003 11:27:18 AM new
I don't know if this will help you, but if Canadians send an International Postal Money Order you can cash it at the Post Office with no fee.
posted on January 23, 2003 04:11:02 PM new
Completely agree Fluffy. The seller mentioned
"If I can fit it into a Global priority envelope, it will be only
$8.50, but I don't know if it will fit"
That TOTALLY leaves the buyer to believe that this will be an $8.50 shipping fee. When you communicate in the future, be very clear. Don't say it might be, tell them what it WILL be. I always go for the worse case scenario with shipping, I don't want to lose on that.
Not much you can do with the terms of service, though personally I'll accept payment any way I can. It seems rather limiting to not accept a traditional money order. Although I like to pay with paypal, as a buyer I might actually skip over your auction because of your terms of service, as I would question whether you were a fly by night operation...
posted on January 24, 2003 06:29:46 AM new
HELLO dtmhj: i applaude you for your persisting attitude to try and solve the problem. i speak mainly for myself -- i do not have this positive trait.
and as a reply to trai's comment of Jan22 to your thread..i copy/pasted the following part of the comment:
"If she does neg you, report it to ebay under the same heading and you have a good chance that they will remove it."
what i read about negative removal is that almost nothing can be removed without the permission of the person who placed the negative...there are only 2-3 reasons stated that ebay will allow removal... and after paying your 20bucks, the removal will most probably never happen...[[this last sentence is my opinion; and your interpretation of the 'reasons to allow' may be different.]]
have a nice one! sam
posted on January 24, 2003 07:30:12 AM new
myoldtoy
dthmj does have a good chance to get a neg removed if she leaves one. Bidder did not comply with sellers tos!
One just has to keep after ebay on this. Been there, done it!
posted on January 24, 2003 08:40:54 AM new
I also have been stating no international buyers. It just takes so long to get there and the worry is too much for me.
Now, I did not restrict international buyers at first and , what is it with Canadian buyers, some have just been wonderful, but some haven't.
When I first started selling, one asked me to put 'gift' on the customs form. I was so ignorant, I did. Thought they were sending it as a gift to someone.
My only bad check was from a Canadian, drawn on an American BAnk.
One of my negs was from a Canadian whose email was returned and I worked with fellow Ebayers for 6 hours trying to reach him to let him know his package was mailed. The initial emails went through. He negged me because I did not leave him feedback!! I had left him feedback 5 days before!!
My scales are not all that accurate - for this reason, I hate the new Priority rates.
For an international buyer - I tell them the approximate weight (stating I don't know the actual weight) and tell them to go to USPS site. If they win the auction, I pack the item, take it to PO and let them calculate the postage. I have never had anyone complain about postage that way. I tell the buyer before they bid, that I will let the PO calculate postage.
But Canadian buyers - maybe it is like the old saying about the US and Britian - "We are friends separated by a common language."
