posted on July 8, 2003 10:01:11 AM
Last night I get a pretty big order on one of my websites. The buyer ordered many different styles and sizes. Unusual, but not enough to set off alarm bells in the normal course of things...However my Stiletto Sense was tingling like mad.
I notice in the comments section of the order, that she left a different email for contact than the one she used for billing.
Stilleto Sense is a roar in my head, by now.
I go to ebay's stupid new lookup system for emails and plug in both email addresses.
Email 1: Leads to an ebay account with quite a few negatives for paypal chargebacks and credit card fraud. Also some followups for the same. From the feedback it looks like a buying only account. No feedback left for it since April of 2003.
Email 2: Leads to an account with 112 positives. All of them appear to be for selling. 2 negs and 1 neutral.
Stilleto Sense is in overdrive. I know something shady is going on. I suspect this woman buys from merchants to resell on ebay and then does chargebacks.
About 20 minutes ago she emails from a 3rd email address and asks if they have been shipped. If not, she wants to "add a few more things" to her order. I haven't responded yet.
I go plug the third email into ebay and BINGO!!!! Another account. This one also seems to be only for buying. Already 2 followups for paypal chargebacks and neutral left a week ago that mentions "visa chargeback".
I would be willing to bet my house that this rotten piece of tripe is doing chargebacks under the other accounts and reselling the items on ebay under that second account. I am also willing to bet she has lots of "buying" ids.
I am going to write and tell her:
Thank You for your order. In our efforts to protect our customers, we require a valid contact email provided by your isp. Once you provide this, we can continue processing your order.
Two emails I have for her are from yahoo. One is from AOL. My order form gives the IP info on the person that placed the order. That info leads to a cable modem internet service. I am hoping that this is her actual account and that she will give the email address to me.
I am going to mull over this for a while. I need to figure out a way to stop her cold.
I hate the fact that there is no way to warn the sellers that she may be purchasing from right now.
posted on July 8, 2003 10:13:03 AM
It pays to do your detective work.
It's a shame that there are ripoff artists out there doing illegal chargebacks. They see a loophole and go for it.
Sooner or later it will catch up with her as the credit card companies may tag her records when she logs enough chargebacks and the credit card companies may share that data with each other in an attempt to curb fraud.
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"See you in Church if you sit by a window !"
posted on July 8, 2003 10:28:23 AM
That really sucks for the ebay sellers.
Credit card issuers could do a much better job of preventing some types of chargeback fraud, if their hands were not tied by Mastercard and Visa Regulations.
posted on July 8, 2003 10:38:09 AM
I'm kind of a B*!@ when it comes to things like this. I would email her and tell her that she is welcome to add more items to her order however after checking her ebay buying and follow-up habits you will be carefully documenting all aspects of this transaction including hard copies of her emails. If, as seems to be a trend accoding to the feedback found on ebay account XXXX she attempts to do a charge back you will be forced to present her credit card company as well as federal authorities with these correspondences as well as pointing them towards her ebay accounts for possible further investigation for interstate commerce fraud.
That being said...What else did you wish to add to your order?
~~~~~ ~~~~~ ~~~~~ ~~~~~ ~~~~~ ~~~~~ ~~~~~ ~~~~~
I have not failed. I've just found 10,000 ways that won't work.
- Thomas Edison
[ edited by neonmania on Jul 8, 2003 10:38 AM ]
posted on July 8, 2003 10:42:24 AM
Oh yeah - I know this is a shot in the dark but you wouldn't perhaps have the Sketchers sneaker slide/sandal as seen in the recent V.Secrets catalog would you? I want to get a pair of these but would rather give me money to a fellow indy seller than a corp.
~~~~~ ~~~~~ ~~~~~ ~~~~~ ~~~~~ ~~~~~ ~~~~~ ~~~~~
I have not failed. I've just found 10,000 ways that won't work.
- Thomas Edison
posted on July 8, 2003 11:07:51 AMOh yeah - I know this is a shot in the dark but you wouldn't perhaps have the Sketchers sneaker slide/sandal as seen in the recent V.Secrets catalog would you?
Are you referring to the open toe sandal that has the bottom of a sneaker? Came in Black, white and blue (I think). I usually only sell heels. Some friends were nagging me about them. I told them, I would get a case if enough of them were interested. My sister darted of with the last pair (My inventory shows that I have size 6 left. I can't find it though)) about 2 weeks ago. If you wear a size 6 I can have someone check the store room again.
posted on July 8, 2003 11:25:44 AM
That's exactly what I am referring to. I am actually looking for black in an 8 1/2 but a friend of mine wants the blue ones and I think that is her size. email me thru my vendio store with price and color and such and I'll check with her.
~~~~~ ~~~~~ ~~~~~ ~~~~~ ~~~~~ ~~~~~ ~~~~~ ~~~~~
I have not failed. I've just found 10,000 ways that won't work.
- Thomas Edison
posted on July 8, 2003 11:27:06 AM
Your stiletto sense may have saved you bigtime on this one. A few suggestions:
* You might want to check the same addresses on Yahoo auctions ... more scam artists seem to hang out there.
* I would call the company that provides your merchant account, ask to speak to someone who's familiar with eBay and tell them what your concerns are and ask them how you can protect yourself, or if you should simply refuse the transaction. (Many retailers have policies against buying for resale, which they enforce very selectively to protect them from this kind of mess.)
* For amusement value, you could just flat-out email her and ask her what the deal is.
Now my saga-alert is going off. Please keep us updated as this story plays out!
neon My niece has those shoes. They are so cute. The real shocker, however, was when I slipped one of hers on and it fit me. When did my baby niece start wearing a size 7 women's shoe? I do not remember giving her permission to grow up.
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We do not see things as they are. We see them as we are.
------------The Talmud
[ edited by msincognito on Jul 8, 2003 11:30 AM ]
posted on July 8, 2003 11:49:36 AM
Ms - I remember my mother saying the same thing when I was 12 and we wore the same size shoes. Now I am a size larger. I saw those shoes in the catalog and immediately went online trying to see if I could find them cheaper. I not only could not find them cheaper, I flat out could not find them. I've been meaning to ask Shops about them for a week now.
~~~~~ ~~~~~ ~~~~~ ~~~~~ ~~~~~ ~~~~~ ~~~~~ ~~~~~
I have not failed. I've just found 10,000 ways that won't work.
- Thomas Edison
posted on July 8, 2003 12:26:16 PMCredit Card companies have to have a reason for a charge back, what reason is she giving? Without reason, and the only reason I can see is that the item wasn't received, which is easily over come with a required signature, otherwise, the item, if not as she wished, would have to be returned, and she wouldn't have anything to re-sell.
We REQUIRE a signature on everything we ship, except small items shipped First Class. We ship 75% of our items USPS, Delivery Confirmation/Insured (U-Pic)/Signature Required, and with these precautions, we haven't had a charge back since. We were getting some when we only used Delivery Confirmation, as our credit card processor said they had to have a signature, now we require a signature, we have been chargeback free. None of our customers have complained about the extra charge for “signature required.”
We use Endicia, mail processor, which makes doing all of this extremely easy, and provides automatic e-mails when item ships, with the Delivery Confirmation Number and link to the USPS web site for the customer to check for themselves – this greatly cut down on endless e-mails of “have you shipped, or when will it arrives, etc.”
We use UPS’s computer system for our larger shipments, and require a signature on all of the UPS shipments, and UPS sends an e-mail notification of the tracking number, and when the item shipped, along with UPS’s on line address, so the customer can track their own package, and not e-mail me!
*********
NOW, I have wondered about requiring a permanent e-mail address, as opposed to one at Yahoo, or Hotmail - How many of you require a "real" ISP address? IF so, how do your customers react to such?
posted on July 8, 2003 02:18:23 PMCredit Card companies have to have a reason for a charge back, what reason is she giving?
I don't know since I can't see her ebay user ids. I always get signatures for my shipments. She could be one of those that claim to have returned and item, when she actually sent the seller a rock back. She could alo claim the card was stolen. She can also say that it isn't her signature.
How many of you require a "real" ISP address? IF so, how do your customers react to such?
I don't usually. The few times I have asked, it has been no problem...except where a scammer was involved.
I have noticed that more and more online stores are asking for isp email addresses. Of course with AOL it is almost pointless.
NEON: Give me a day. I may be able to get you the Black ones at cost.
posted on July 8, 2003 03:05:44 PM
Shops... For that I'd give you a week
~~~~~ ~~~~~ ~~~~~ ~~~~~ ~~~~~ ~~~~~ ~~~~~ ~~~~~
I have not failed. I've just found 10,000 ways that won't work.
- Thomas Edison
posted on July 9, 2003 03:28:26 AM
Is that sale really worth the risk?
This totally reeks of future fraud against you......And you don't need the hassles.
Don't accept and online payment from her and definately don't ship it....
If you have the time and energy call her local police and show them all of your super sleuth details.
Filing chargebacks just to screw people over then selling it on Ebay??? How long does she think she can get away with it before she goes to jail.
If you haven't already done so re-check the auctions connected to the negs for chargebacks..... cross reference them to what she is selling on one of the other ID's
If you can connect the dots and show she is selling what she chargebacked and robbed from other sellers its jail time for her!!
And of course forward all your super sleuth findings to safe harbor.....
posted on July 9, 2003 04:42:20 AM
This is sneaky and will cost you a small amount of money and may be a bit radical but. . . .why not mark 1 pair of shoes in an inconspicuous place, photograph the mark and watch for them to come up on ebay. Bid, win and hurray - you have your proof. This would probably be enough proof to prosecute her. Is there anyway you can send her just one pair of shoes? Use some lame excuse like you have a credit card $ limit for first time buyers and that equals one pair of shoes, but you will hold the others and ship them depending upon how this order goes.
I recently discovered someone had stolen checks from the old company I worked for. The company had gone out of business, but we still had the checks. Through detective work, signature comparisons and the like, the person was caught and is now facing the Grand Jury for all kinds of charges. Your detective work may pay off and not only save you, but a lot of honest sellers out there as well. Do you have an auction number at all?
posted on July 9, 2003 07:00:38 AM
"Dear Kind Buyer,
Thank you for your large order. I will be shipping them out as soon as your check arrives and payment clears. On an order of this size, I do not wish to accept Palpal or Credit Card payment due to someone committing fraud against me. Thank you for your understanding."
If they answer back that they have to pay by credit card for whatever reason, you send this email...
"Dear Kind Buyer,
Thank you for your large order. I will be shipping them out as soon as your check arrives and payment clears. On an order of this size, I do not wish to accept Palpal or Credit Card payment due to someone committing fraud against me. Thank you for your understanding."
They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety. B. Franklin
posted on July 10, 2003 12:00:13 AM
Shops - good question! I have to be by a shoe store tomorrow - since I have no idea how Sketchers size up - I'll try some on and let you know.
~~~~~ ~~~~~ ~~~~~ ~~~~~ ~~~~~ ~~~~~ ~~~~~ ~~~~~
I have not failed. I've just found 10,000 ways that won't work.
- Thomas Edison
posted on July 11, 2003 08:29:27 PM
SHOPS - I need them in a 9
~~~~~ ~~~~~ ~~~~~ ~~~~~ ~~~~~ ~~~~~ ~~~~~ ~~~~~
I have not failed. I've just found 10,000 ways that won't work.
- Thomas Edison
posted on July 12, 2003 01:55:22 AM
Shops - LOL - I have a Malibu and Coke beside me as I type.
I'm curious about the saga but please don't feel like you have to rush this for me. Sandal season lasts till at least October here and I probably won't get in for a pedicure for at least a week (sad since it's just a block away).
~~~~~ ~~~~~ ~~~~~ ~~~~~ ~~~~~ ~~~~~ ~~~~~ ~~~~~
I have not failed. I've just found 10,000 ways that won't work.
- Thomas Edison
posted on July 14, 2003 02:39:16 PM
Update?
They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety. B. Franklin
posted on July 14, 2003 03:32:47 PM
A few things happened.
After I posted here the feedback on all the ids was made private. I figured she read the board and I didn't want to give her anymore info.
I reported my suspicions about the emails and fraud to ebay. I don't know what happened with ebay since, you can't get much info with just the email adresses. I hope she isn't able to rip anymore sellers off.
I called the issuer of the card and found out it was issued to a business. They would not tell me the of the business. The address she wanted the items shipped to did not match the billing address on file with the company. The issuer put an alert on the card.
She emailed me and said that she wanted to cancel the order. She didn't "like my customer service". She expected "faster shipping".
Neon: The person in possesion of the size 9 is being very mean about handing them over. It is my sister and she got TWO pairs. She is attempting to blackmail me.
posted on July 14, 2003 06:03:45 PM
Making me feel "guilty" is more accurate than "blackmail". She was supposed to get one pair. I would have attempted to get the other pair back no matter what. I didn't charge her for them. Taking two pairs is greedy.
She thinks she deserves some reparations for incidents when we were teens. I threw something of hers in the middle of a lake. I also cut little pieces of her hair out every night, for around 2 weeks, while she was sleeping. She freaked out. She thought she had some sort of horrible disease that was making her go bald.
You can pick your friends...Not your family. It is a biological conspiracy.
posted on July 14, 2003 06:58:11 PM
Shops - You have me rolling! I never had siblings but I had boarding school. Me and one of my roommates used to feed our dieting roommate in her sleep. Drove her insane - she starved herself for weeks and yet kept GAINING weight.
Try dropping the backporch kittie off at her place with a sketch of the shoes and send him in on the mission? He can always bite her ankles if he gets caught. That or maybe you can just THREATEN to drop the backporch kittie off
~~~~~ ~~~~~ ~~~~~ ~~~~~ ~~~~~ ~~~~~ ~~~~~ ~~~~~
I have not failed. I've just found 10,000 ways that won't work.
- Thomas Edison
