posted on August 10, 2004 02:44:32 PM
OK, this is way off topic, but since I think there are a lot of parents on this board, I thought I would get some feedback on a situation...
Here's the set-up: we're the parents of a great 4 1/2 y/o boy. Two doors down lives another little boy (we'll call him "Joe" about the same age. They've been playing together for the past year. They hit it off together as 4 y/o's do.
However, we had to put a stop to the playing on Friday. Now, tell me that I'm just the most overbearing and judgemental parent in the world, but there's something not right in Joe's house.
Joe is very much at our house. We have literally become a "daycare" for him. We feed him snacks and even lunch sometimes. However, Joe is very much rude and disobeys our house rules even when warned several times. Yes, we do send him home if he breaks our rules but he's often back in a few hours.
Have you ever looked into the eyes of someone and you know that they are devoid of conscience? That's what I see in Joe's eyes.
When we first met Joe and his parents, his mother was taking him home after playing with our son. She picked him up and he promptly screamed "I HATE YOU!!!" and hit his mother right in the face. That was the first hint.
The parents, when they are home (most of the day and night) live on thier couch watching their bigscreen TV. I can see it from my deck. It's on all the time. They are up LATE and sleep in late. OK, no big deal...but Joe gets out of the house and is running around the neighborhood w/o parent's knowledge. In fact, we see Joe around the neighborhood and we have been called by the parents asking where their son is.
Another thing Joe says is "There's no food at our house." "Everyone is asleep at our house." He often breaks our son's toys. Just out of spite because he doesn't have them. When our son gets a new toy, he shows up often the next day with the exact same toy.
I worry when our son is at Joe's house. OK, the parents smoke, but...they have "houseguests" over at times...Joe was allowed to watch "The Hulk" movie at age 4. Huh?
OK....maybe you'll slam me for trying to encapsulate this in a posting, but something ain't right. The topper was that the father asked my wife to watch Joe for an hour. He was gone for 3 1/2 hours. When he called, he said just send the kid home (in the dark). A few days later we were asked again to watch him for an hour and a half. That lasted 4 hours. That was the final straw.
Is it fair to keep our son away from this kid? Or are we just being too retaliatory? The parents response is always, "That's the way kids that age are." Our son KNOWS better than to be rude, break stuff and do what Joe does.
posted on August 10, 2004 03:05:49 PM
I'm not an expert, but I agree that there's something wrong there.
You say the parents are there most of the time. How do they support themselves? By legal methods?
I almost think I'd call the child welfare people. I know that some experts would say you're doing a favor for the little boy by giving him some stability and rules, but what kind of example is he for your son? If he shows up again, after being sent home, do you have to let him in?
posted on August 10, 2004 03:19:53 PM
The mother works as a health care technician. The father...owns ice cream machines.
The father showed up at my son's 4th birthday party stoned.
As for letting him back in, well...we have banned him for an entire day. What happens is that he will come back to the house as early as 9 am the next morning ringing the doorbell. If sent away, he will come back again and again.
It's not only "fair" to keep your son away from Joe, it's your privilege and, some would say, your responsibility. When my kids were little, whom they played with, where and when, was the decision of my husband and me and we based it on what was best for them, not the playmate.
For what would you be retaliating? That statement puzzles me..
posted on August 10, 2004 03:28:57 PM
The poor child. What a tough break to have drawn those particular parents! Do other neighbors have concerns, too?
Lucy's right.
Edited to add: We had one of those children in our old Las Vegas neighborhood, years ago. (Does every neighborhood have ONE of them??) I used to have nightmares that he'd find out how much I love the trees we'd planted in the front yard and cut them down. That's how scary he was.
___________________________________
My right to speak my mind, to have a voice, to be what some have called "opinionated," is a right I deeply and profoundly cherish. And my only hope is that, one day soon, women--who have all earned their right to their opinions--instead of being called opinionated, will be called smart and well-informed, just like men. ~Teresa Heinz Kerry (bless her)
[ edited by Roadsmith on Aug 10, 2004 03:30 PM ]
posted on August 10, 2004 03:29:22 PM
"Retaliatory" may not have been the right word, but I have grown sick and tired of Joe's parents treating us and the rest of the parents on our block as their personal daycare for this kid. And I'm just saying "NO".....but how can you keep your kid from playing from another kid in the same neighborhood when they're 4? I mean, they're kids! They want to play!
I know Joe's parents are miffed at all this, but they'll never admit to any wrongdoing--or apologize for anything. And who I am say they are "bad parents?"
My wife told me yesterday that people come and go...but "white trash is forever."
posted on August 10, 2004 03:31:39 PM
Do the other neighbors have concerns...Well, I THINK so, but maybe I'm just more outspoken about it than others. But I think it may have been more the case that they know they can walk over us than others (Our bad! I admit it!) I know about "village to raise a child" but this is ridiculous!!!
posted on August 10, 2004 03:37:35 PM
Boy, you are in a tough position. That poor little boy at least sees what normal life is supposed to be like at your house.
What can you do? Banning him from your house will protect your child but that doesn't help the other child does it?
I think I would be tempted to call child welfare and at least get an opinion on what to do.
Good luck to you, I have a feeling your going to need it.
posted on August 10, 2004 03:39:09 PM
With the father showing up at your son's birthday party stoned, ABSOLUTELY KEEP THEM SEPARATED.
The first thing I thought when you said they (the parents) would be gone for 4 hours when they only wanted you to watch their son for 1 hour sent up a red flag that there is some kind of chicanery going on in that house, and I thought drug related activity. Being a child is hard enough without having drug activity close by.
posted on August 10, 2004 03:40:41 PM
There was a little boy down my parents block that my daughter used to play with. His parents NEVER watched him. He would frequently be seen with older kids (12 and 13 yo). He was only 1 year older than my daughter. The neighborhood was always worried about him. He was diagnosed with severe emotional disturbances. Finally, the last straw was the way he treated my daughter and I said "enough". He would ignore her when the older kids would come around and the only reason he would play with her would be to play in the pool or if there was no one else around. Fortunately for us, they moved away a couple of weeks ago and I gave a huge sigh of relief. That child had severe anger issues and I would not allow my daughter to play with him unless I watched them very closely. My daughter is 5 1/2 now. I understand your trepidation. Stick to your guns. It is not your responsibility to raise your neighbor's son.
posted on August 10, 2004 03:59:07 PM
CAKeen --> I hear you loud and clear. I was SO angry when that happened. He claimed it was "pain medication" that he was on. Yeah, right.
Diane --> For a minute, I thought you lived on our street!
Folks, I appreciate everyone's feedback. I just needed some kind of perspective on this. I already told my son that he is absolutely not allowed to go to Joe's house and play and that Joe is no longer allowed in our house to play. That kind of puts it so that if Joe is playing with other kids and my son shows up, I can't prevent them from playing together in another person's house but you can be sure that I WILL watch them at all times or at least trust the people whose house they are playing at.
It is just this blatant disregard of Joe's parents that they have toward their kid that I cannot comprehend?!? I mean, we see him playing in the street, showing up at other people's houses unannounced (am I wrong to call ahead to see if it's OK for my son to play? Maybe I'm old fashioned.) and the parents are NOWHERE--oh, sorry, yes, they are both lying on their couch watching TV (I can see them from my deck, no lie)
And here's a kicker. When I call, they have Caller ID. Sometimes they don't answer the phone. I can see them and they don't answer. One time, I called on my cell phone, they answered but denied who they were (because they didn't know my cell number).
Whenever my son played at Joe's house I always worried. No more playing there. There's just something going on and it's not right.
I didn't mean to go on and on....Thanks for all the feedback.
posted on August 10, 2004 04:10:03 PM
After reading these posts,its still my contention ALOT of people should NOT be allowed to repoduce-this woman should have her tubes tied and the guy should have his nuts cut.
So Joe is very rude and breaks your house rules and breaks your sons toys?? why do let him in your house?? HELLO ?? show some balls and tell him hes not welcomed anymore.
He often says "theres no food in the house" good..let the little bastard starve and that will be the end of your problem.
posted on August 10, 2004 04:24:43 PM
Several professions, teachers, human services, daycare professional, healthcare providers, etc., are REQUIRED BY LAW to report suspected child abuse and NEGLECT to children's services.
I cannot determine if this child is being/has been abused, but neglect is a given.
Your priority, however, is to your son. It is your job to keep him safe and raise him to become a responsible human being. It may not seem "unmanageable" now, but how about in another 5-10 years, when your son is away from your influence?
I know it's hard and seems unfair. I have raised two and would have welcomed a forum such as this.
“Our enemies are innovative and resourceful, and so are we! They never stop thinking about new ways to harm our country and our people, and neither do we.” ~ GWBush White House 8/5/4
posted on August 10, 2004 06:15:25 PM
Sure,,,,,,,YOU be the family to report this situation to the authorities and just watch your peaceful world crumble. Annonomously call some Church or other,,,,civic group or organization for the CHILDS benefit. Do not involve yourselves in ANY WAY directly with that situation. And make sure you cover your tracks as to have NO part of any forthcoming circumstances. Are they Owners of the house? Are they renters? AH! renters ! Somehow make it known to the Property owners. The sooner their gone,,,the better. The authorities will pick up on it sooner than later. You do NOT want to be directly involved with the investigations of that household. My real concern is the connection between your child and the other Child and having him in your home leaves the door wide open for some drug using people to make alligations against YOU while in your home. OUT! If you continue to let them use you, you will go down by association with them.
posted on August 10, 2004 07:21:53 PM
Twig125silver and Jack are absolutely correct. You can't handle this situation on your own. It's time to get the pro's involved before it's too late. I would tip off a counselor at his school, if he's in kindergarden yet. They will interview him and if anything looks strange, they are required to report it. An annonymous call to child protective services (that's what it's called in California) would be in order. Above all, read Jack's post again. Don't identify yourself, or become directly involved. This mob has a few of the signs of being drug dealers and you don't want to deal with them or any of their "houseguests" later.
A $75.00 solid state device will always blow first to protect a 25 cent fuse ~ Murphy's Law
posted on August 10, 2004 07:40:00 PM
Sparkz,,,,they are of the age of how do I say it,,,,unknowns by any officials. No school yet. It's like they don't exist until School. That's why I say some Civic group, church or whatever. If they WERE of school age this would a no brainer. No one in authority knows about the child. And bringing official authorities means Someone BROUGHT them.......to the attention of this matter. A rock and a hard place. Once that Golden age is hit the schools will be aware.
Sounds like she has 6 months to go. 4 1/2 years old. Hope they move in the meantime.
Give Craigslist.org a try. List anywhere. Take a L@@K see for yourself. Not just for local stuff. You can still ship.
posted on August 10, 2004 07:56:12 PM
Ahaaaaaaaa!!!!!! throw a block party! EVERYONE will be suspect then! WhO!!!!! WHO! YOU!!!!! was it YOU!!!!!!! OR was,,,,,,,,it ,,,,,YOU!!!!!!! which one of you!!!!!!!!!!! WHO!!!!!!!!! My kid gets plenty to eat! then why is he eating like a horse now! Cause a civil ruckus (lite off some illegal fireworks, get the drug guy to do it!!!!!!) the cops'll come and then,,,,,,,,,,He sells Ice Cream????? hahahaha. likely.....Ya gotta mix it up. Confusion.
Just some of my insane ideas. I claim NO responsiblities for my thoughts.
posted on August 10, 2004 07:57:07 PM
Jack...I know that. A nobody till you are enrolled in a public school. It's possible that a 4 1/2 could be enrolling in school here in California this next week. Depends on the month of birth and if the "1/2" is a big half or a little half. I was born in December and started when I was 4 1/2. Same for my son. The alternative I suggested was an annomous call to CPS. If they insist on knowing who's calling, give them the name of an NPB. If Petpost doesn't have any, I've got several I'll gladly give her
A $75.00 solid state device will always blow first to protect a 25 cent fuse ~ Murphy's Law
posted on August 10, 2004 08:17:52 PM
There must be a lot of disturbed kids out there. This reminds me so much of a little boy who used to live next door to me. The whole neighborhood breathed a sigh of relief when he left.
Some of his exploits including climbing on the roof of his house (don't ask me how), putting the car into gear and driving into the garage door, kicking his little sister in the butt, knocking so hard on doors that he dented them, pulling the blooms off flowers if you wouldn't let him in your house and my personal scary favorite - stomping a frog to death when his dad wouldn't let him keep it for a pet (all of this was before he turned 5).
All of which is my long winded way of saying that i agree with everyone who has told you to stay away from this kid.
posted on August 10, 2004 08:39:34 PM
I would definitely not allow this child in my house based on what you wrote. I have a 4 and 7 year old. Friends not following house rules means they go home, for the day. Do it a 2nd time, go home. A third time, and I would do a week, 4th time, and no more playing at my house! Luckily we have not dealt with this, but I don't have much tolerance for disrespect. I hope you aren't letting your kid play there!
We have new neighbors, pretty much the same age as my kids. My wife walked them 2 doors down, and 10 minutes later my 4 year old was escorted home because she tripped. Well, talking to the father for 1/2 a second and I realized this guy was completely tanked. I went there and got my 2nd child, and now they are not allowed to ever go back there to play. The kids can play here in my supervision, but something major like that - One strike and you are out.
Friends don't let Friends say stupid things like Friends don't let friends vote Republican!
posted on August 10, 2004 08:48:41 PM
UPDATE: OK, I let my boy play with Joe for about an hour but only in our back yard and NOT in our house--and when they started for Joe's house, I called for my son to come out.
My wife watched both of them from our second story deck as they played below. We also watched Joe's dad come out on his deck and grill and flip some burgers. He asked if our son could have a popcicle (his way to trying to get back in our graces, I think). My son actually declined the offer.
Then Skank Girlfriend of House Guest came out to flip burgers and scowled at my wife.
Next came Houseguest Man to flip more burgers.
Then came Joe's mom who WAVED to my wife vigorously. My wife waved once. The mother said, "Wow, you must be a bad mood."
Finally we called our son back in for a bath. My wife said I caved...but I'm not allowing him over to Joe's house again and he's not allowed in our house again. If they can play for short times in neutral area under supervision, I'm OK with it, but sooner or later the parents are going to ask what's going on--then I'm going to have to tell them.
posted on August 11, 2004 03:28:21 AM
Geez, i have a lot of similar stories i could share from when my 17 yr old son was small, and growing up with his same aged cousin who lived across the street from us, but the stories scan sooooo many years, I'd actually have to write a book to tell it all. ... we pretty much raised the kid (my husband's nephew), and have fed him more meals in his lifetime than his parents did.
If i wrote the book, i would entitle it
"Bone of Contention" .........
It really IS hard to not have your kids play with same-aged kids that live in the neighborhood, especially if there IS only one kid that is your child's age.
But, petpost, i think for now your idea of limiting the time they spend together is a good idea ... at least for the time-being.
btw, i think in most States, that if you ask Childrens Services to check into a household situation, i think they always keep the source 'confidential' ... they do not name names ... but of course in your case, your neighbors will suspect it was you, since you're really the only ones they've ...ummm... scowled at.
perhaps your son can sign up for preschool this year and you can wholeheartedly welcome his 'new' friends to your place.
posted on August 11, 2004 06:15:10 AM
I'm most concerned when you said he breaks toys and hit his Mom.
I am not a regular talk show watcher, but occcassionaly while cruising past one, they will have troubled kids on. They end up with the worst stories, but there are enough of them to know it is a real problem. A teenager doesn't get bad when they turn 13. It starts sometime and 4 is as good an age an any!!! We have a 13 y/o across the street and the mouth and temper on her, would make a sailor blush. They are really scary when they get wound up!!!
These kids have tempers, and do not know how to control themselves. Little kids grow up to be big kids then teenagers and then adults. Rage can manifest itself as a reaction and no amount of watching can stop it. Children fight/argue. What if one day this kid explodes - then what? Your world as you know it could be turned upside down in an instant.
My opinion - treat this kid like he has the plague and you do not want your child to catch it. I sure wouldn't want to risk my familys safety and stability because of another familys lack of responsibility.
It is hard not to be friends with everyone and explain it to a 4 year old. I'm sorry for your dilemma but I think you're too kind. Good luck to you and your family, Louise
posted on August 11, 2004 08:55:34 AM
I personally would not call any authorities based only on the information that you have provided. The problem seems to be that you are unable to control who your son plays with and you are concerned that your son will be affected in some way by his association with the other child. Please don't misunderstand but I'm thinking of the future when your child will be exposed to such children in school. Maybe a better solution is to use this child's bad habits as a teaching experience. You can't isolate a child so much that he is unable to cope with what he is bound to experience on the playground at school.
You haven't said that your son is afraid of the other child and apparently they get along well and like to play together?
posted on August 11, 2004 09:03:45 AM
well said,helen.
but please take it easy on the kid,he is only 4 years old!!
-sig file -------we eat to live,not live to eat.
Benjamin Franklin
posted on August 11, 2004 09:37:09 AM
I have 3 children under 10. I would simply stop having the children play together, inside, outside or anywhere. This little boy is a bad example. It's sad for the troubled boy, but that isn't your problem. You should just keep your son away so he doesn't pick up this other boys behaviors.
I wouldn't get involved reporting the child to the authorities. That is very serious stuff. Those allegations shouldn't be made lightly or without serious substantiating information.
about the same age. They've been playing together for the past year. They hit it off together as 4 y/o's do.
