posted on October 1, 2004 09:36:07 AM
Here's the scenario. We received a digital camera in its original box, with all its accessories, but lacked any batteries to test it with. We chose, because of its lower-end nature, not to spend money on the batteries, since the item wasn't worth the effort. It sells for $20-$30 untested and $30-$40 tested. At any rate, we stated in our listing four times, in plain English: This item is untested, this item has not been tested, this item is being sold as-is because it has not been tested.
The buyer buys the item, gets it, and it doesn't work. She emails back, demanding that we return it and give her money back. I asked her if she had read the listing and understood what "untested" and "as-is" referred to. She said she got exactly what was advertised (which she did), but that, because it didn't work, "the rules had changed" (exact quote). I told her the rules did not change, since she had bought the item as described and admitted that it was exactly as we had described it -- untested, as-is, complete with all the box and accessories. We have some 325 unique positives and, until her, no negatives -- now we have one, and she charges that we sold her "broken product" and were "deceptive". Here's my question: what's "deceptive" about telling her up-front that the item was untested and that we were selling it as-is because it was untested? It may have been unworking -- or not. I'm quite sure if it had been working she'd have congratulated herself on getting a real deal. But as she admitted, she bought it knowing it might or might not work -- and when it didn't, decided she didn't like it.
Yes, I could have taken it back and eaten the $50 or so bucks total. But I am SICK of people buying on Ebay and specifically and deliberately ignoring the conditions the seller sets and thinking they can badger and threaten with negative feedback if we don't cave in. How many times, for instance, do I have to put in Bold lettering and a different font that we only take Paypal with confirmed addresses? I average literally 20% of my payments through Paypal as people who DON'T have confirmed addresses and then complain vehemently that they're required to have one. If you don't like the conditions a buyer states, especially if the buyer is going out of their way to repeatedly point out the conditions, DON'T BID. Why is that so hard? If it says "untested and as-is", I would hope the person buying it would realise that it WASN'T TESTED and was being sold AS-IS.
posted on October 1, 2004 09:48:06 AM
Wnenever I sell used ELECTRONICS or PC PARTS, I always put in BIG RED BOLD PRINT:
NO RETURNS! NO REFUNDS!
People still bid & win, but I get NO RETURNS
"I glance at the headlines just to kind of get a flavor for what's moving. I rarely read the stories, and get briefed by people who are probably read the news themselves." —George W. Bush, Washington, D.C., Sept. 21, 2003
~
posted on October 1, 2004 07:47:57 PM
We decided a while back to no longer be blackmailed by the threat of negative feedback. We bend over backwards to see if a reasonable person, even a slightly unreasonable and somewhat stupid person, could have in good faith misunderstood what we were selling. When we decide that no, they are trying to blackmail us, or are trying to get a free try-and-buy: TOUGH! No refund. Most of them slink away.
posted on October 1, 2004 09:57:02 PM
That stands to question as to why you are selling untested items at all. That is one of the quickest ways to get a bad reputation there is. If word gets out that you are selling junk, people will steer clear let alone give the rest of us responsible sellers on ebay a bad name as well. I agree that the buyer is stupid for even bidding on this item, but this item should have never been listed in the first place.
posted on October 1, 2004 10:04:34 PM
Instead of describing it as "as is", describe it as "untested and may not work properly". If you do not state that it may not work, bidders might assume that it might work.
posted on October 2, 2004 06:19:14 AM
We chose, because of its lower-end nature, not to spend money on the batteries, since the item wasn't worth the effort.
This should tell you what this item is worth right off the bat--nothing.I agree with Stone on this one.I wish ebay sellers would stop going to yard sales,estate sales,and auction houses and getting cheap electronics for a low price and selling it on Ebay,"as is" or "untested" not knowing if it works or not.I could bet you a years pay check hundreds of sellers are selling it this way KNOWING it doesnt work and list it as "untested or "as is" hoping some sap will come along hoping it does work, just to make a profit on a peice of junk thats worthless.Get off your cheap lazy asses and test this stuff out before you list it!
whenever I see a listing that says "as is" or "untested", I think if your too damn lazy to test it, you may stick it up your ass,because thats where it belongs.
Of course ya all know this is just my
HUMBLE opinon
[ edited by classicrock000 on Oct 2, 2004 09:43 AM ]
posted on October 2, 2004 03:43:24 PM
I don't agree with the critics on this one. It is the buyers responsibility to read the auction. Many of us buy the "As IS" items for spare parts. It is much cheaper for me to buy a cheap "asis" "dead" computer if I just need a part.
Example, on laptop pc's.. ac/dc transformers, plastic face plates, pcmi cards and more can be salvaged from supposedly dead pc's. The platic hinge covers to my Compaq are $11 each on Ebay, the Ac adapter was $25 with shipping. I can buy a "dead" pc for say $20 and usually salvage more than enough spare parts to make it worthwhile.
The buyer in question gambled and lost. They need to be horsewhipped for whining! I also think they need to grow up.
I have bought "dead" radios, Cd players and other electronics at yardsales for $1 and found that all they needed was a new battery or a switch cleaned. I do this for my own persoanl use and know many other people that do so as well.
If you aren't a do-it-yourself-er, then don't buy junk marked As Is, period, end of rant! Ont her other hand, if you can't figure out how to replace the batteries on your $300 latest got to have it electronic toy, send it to me. I would love to have it. <g>
posted on October 2, 2004 08:19:13 PM
ltray-I agree with everything you said here,but I think you missed the point.When you list something "as is" my question would be "as is" WHAT??? If the item doesnt work put in the description "does not work, for parts only" Either list the item works or doesnt work,whats so hard about this? I recently was looking for a hi-8 8mm tape machine to copy my 8mm tapes onto dvd.I came up with this auction description-"estate sale"Sony hi-8 machine "powers up",but uable to test it as I dont have a 8mm tape to test it with.The starting bid was $100.00.Ya kidding me or what? the guy wants at least $100.00 for it and is too cheap to buy a $2.00 tape to test it with ?? I wouldnt touch this auction with a 10 foot pole.You are correct thou-the buyer gambled and lost and should be horsewhipped,but not for whining,but for bidding on a "as is" piece of crap to begin with.
posted on October 2, 2004 08:20:31 PM
As a seller, I have to agree with Stone and Classic's position. I sell quite a bit of electronics (not consumer type) and I wouldn't dream of listing something without testing it first. I have a microwave signal generator in my garage right now that, as soon as I can find the odd power cord it requires, I will run through a few tests. When I list it, any potential bidder will know if it works 100%, 50% or not at all. They will be able to make an intelligent decision on whether they should bid or not. Even if it doesn't work, I will list it and state what the problem is, because anyone who has a use for this item, more than likely is qualified to repair whatever might be wrong, or like ltray, they may be looking for a DOA unit at a bargain price. I once sold an oscilloscope to a guy who didn't care if it worked or not. He wanted it for the knobs on the front panel for his scope, and he would use the rest of it as spare parts. I, like ltray, prefer to buy non working items and repair them. I've saved thousands of dollars doing that. But I expect the buyer to be up front with me as to what the condition is before I purchase it.
A $75.00 solid state device will always blow first to protect a 25 cent fuse ~ Murphy's Law
posted on October 2, 2004 08:30:28 PM
I guess I don't understand the problem with spydermr2 guestion. They said they listed it as non-tested, condition unknown. I don't have a problem with that. If I was buying it for whatever reason and had a specific question as to parts or accessories, I would contact the buyer and ask. That is what that "Ask the Seller a question" button is for , is it not?
If you don't like to bid on these auctions, then don't. There are some people that look for such auctions.
And yes Classic, if the guy wants $100 for his reel to reel, then he needs to get off his lazy butt and check it out. IF he wants to sell it for $10, I'd be willing to check it out for myself. But I'd be darned if I'd pay $30 shipping to find out if he was selling a piece of hunk!
What kind of r2r are you looking for. I have seen some good quality ones from time to time in the $25 range and would be happy to help you find one. I've been toying with the idea of picking one up for old times sake. I used to have an early Sony and loved it. Sold it in one of my moves and never got around to replacing it.
posted on October 3, 2004 05:19:24 AM
ltray-When you list something "as is" it leaves the question open weather it actually works or not.A lot of people are going to bid on it hoping it will work and getting a bargin-I know how silly of them to come into Ebay looking for a bargin......then again I thought thats what Ebay is all about.I dont have a problem listing items for parts,but at least state it as such.When you list something "as is", your praying on people who really dont know any better,and hoping some fool will bid on it thinking it might work.Thats exactly what happened to spydermr2-now guess what?? The buyer is pissed because they got screwed out of money-spydermer is pissed because he got a negative-so who gains on this??
ltray-I wasnt looking for a r2r machine-I was looking hi-8 video machine-it plays the tapes you use in a camcorder. But thanks for the offer
posted on October 3, 2004 09:49:49 AM
Hi Classic, I guess that either (A.) It was Late, or (B.) "buyers (seller) choosing not to READ, lol.
I know what a Hi-8 is, still have a Sony that uses 8mm. Guess the brain just connected took the wrong shortcut. Duh!
BTW, have NOT seen one of those at a yard sale.
Here's a thought... the color bd went out on my Sony because I used it one too many times on deep water fishing trips... moisture and all that... It still records in black and white and does playback in color fine. I've kept it around because my Dad has one also and I can use mine to play the tapes he sends me. Maybe you can find one with a record problem, but playback works ok?
But that is just the cheap engineer here talking. <g>
posted on October 3, 2004 12:36:34 PM
having a camcorder that doesnt record in color would be a tough sell.I got a hi-8mm VCR a couple weeks ago-all I wanted to do is record my hi-8 tapes onto dvd.I will be getting a digtial camcorder in the next few months,so I will be selling my old regular 8 mm camcorder,my hi-8 camcorder and the hi-8 vcr I bought as I wont need that once Ive transferred my hi-8 tapes.Actually I could have used yours because all I needed it for was play back-but I dont think you will find too many people that need just a player-
