posted on April 18, 2005 10:52:03 AM new
I not only purchased a forgery ($200), I bought it from what must be eBay's worst seller.
It was a framed "antique" poster. Auction ended 3/1. I promptly paid by Paypal.
Item arrives around 3/10 in a large box. I opened it and I couldn't believe the packing. Two thin pieces of wrap on a 24" glass item. No additional padding -- and box larger than the item. Needless to say, the glass was completely shattered.
I then examined the poster, best I could with the broken glass -- felt the paper, looked at the printing, etc. and there was no doubt that the item was a fogery (modern reprint).
The item was insured, but as the shipping damage was caused by the seller's packing, I did not take it to the P.O. I also did not want this broken (hazardous) item in my house, so I securely repacked it and sent it back to seller via FedEx (I paid) and requested a refund.
The seller was angry that I did not take it to P. O. to file a claim. Then, accused me of not sending back the right item (i.e. I tried to switch item on them!). Then, seller accused me of damaging the item in shipping it back. (This one I really laughed about.)
We tried Square Trade, but as seller is clearly not dealing straight, it proved pointless.
Which brings me to today. I need to take some action, on this, but don't know what to do. Unfortunately, due to the seller's stalling tactics, it's too late for me to file a Paypal claim. Apparently only 45 days from auction date of 3/1. I'm a few days beyond that. Other than a negative, what can I do?
posted on April 18, 2005 11:01:39 AM new
FGS!! Put in a claim with PayPal ASAP. It may be too late, but do it now under Buyers Protection. You should be able to get a refund. It may take a month for P/P to render a decision.
posted on April 18, 2005 11:05:57 AM new
>>I did not take it to the P.O.<<
Mistake #1. Ideally, it needed to be "officially on file" that the claim was denied due to bad packaging.
>>I ... securely repacked it and sent it back to seller via FedEx (I paid) and requested a refund.<<
Possible Mistake #2. Sending it back totally voided any remote possibility of the post office paying for damages. However, if you have proof that the seller received the damaged item back, it may come in handy for filing a credit card chargeback.
>>Unfortunately, due to the seller's stalling tactics, it's too late for me to file a Paypal claim. Apparently only 45 days from auction date of 3/1. I'm a few days beyond that.<<
Mistake #3. Never let a seller stall you past PayPal's deadline.
>>Other than a negative, what can I do?<<
A credit card chargeback, if you paid with a credit card. Other than that, there's probably not much, unless you want to take legal action. That's where the claim denial from the post office would've been very beneficial, as well as the proof of delivery where the seller received the item back.
You might try here for some additional suggestions.
posted on April 18, 2005 11:25:18 AM newThe item was insured, but as the shipping damage was caused by the seller's packing, I did not take it to the P.O.
Uhmmm.... isn't it up to the USPS to make this decision?!?! They're the ones who ultimately decide what is / is not covered by THEIR insurance coverage.
The seller was angry that I did not take it to P. O. to file a claim.
Rightfully so! That's what he bought the insurance for!
Did you even communicate with the seller before shipping back the item? Or did you just ship it back and demand a refund? If so... you're lucky he's been communicating with you at all!
As for validity of the item... just what did the details say about the poster? The word "Antique" is very subjective, and depends on the type of subject area being described. For example, an "antique" poster of a personal computer could date back to just the 1980's or even 1990's. I specialize in vintage magazine advertisements... and YES items from the 80's, 90's and even 2000's can easily be considered vintage in some genres.
This said, I am sorry you had a bad transaction with this individual, but if you had dealt with it in a more rational manner... you might have been able to avoid the situation you are currently in (i.e. no product, no money). In the future, try to first open a dialog with the seller in a non-accusatory manner when a problem occurs. That way they have an opportunity to fix the problem without feeling that a bidder is trying to dictate their business practices.
posted on April 18, 2005 11:37:12 AM new
Did you use your credit card with paypal.
If so no problem!
Credit card purchases are protected under the Fair Credit Billing Act. This law gives the consumer the right to withhold payment on poor-quality or damaged merchandise purchased with a credit card.
http://www.ftc.gov/bcp/conline/pubs/credit/fcb.htm
posted on April 18, 2005 12:27:47 PM new
if you file chargeback,there is a good chance you will win since you have returned the item.
I would not go on and on and tell your cc issuer about ebay.paypal.squaretrade,usps etc etc,just show proof that you have returned the item.
-sig file -------
Eat grass,kick ass,never go belly up!
posted on April 18, 2005 03:05:52 PM new
I very much appreciate the help.
The responses are addressing the Paypal and shipping issues.
What if I bought a forgery and didn't use Paypal. Any recourse?
Eauctionmgnt - I appreciate your comments, but don't agree. I did not feel it was safe to transport a large item with over a hundred pieces of broken glass to the P.O. (i.e. leaving it somewhat as is so the P.O. could see how it was packed.) I had already cut my finger on it. I spent over an hour repacking it for shipment back to seller.
posted on April 18, 2005 03:41:26 PM new
Rutabaga...This issue came up about 3 years ago on this board. It is NOT required that you take the damaged item to your Post Office. This is an urban legend that has been around for years. It IS required that you notify the Postal service at your end of any damage and present it to them for inspection, along with all original packing materials. This means your mailman can look at it and report his findings to the person who handles claims. If it's too dangerous for you to transport, they can pick it up. It's usually more convenient to just take the item into the P.O. and hand it to the claims handler and get the paperwork started, but it's not always practical. In any event, you gave up any right to recovery when you failed to exercise the insurance option first. Expect a fight from the seller if you attempt a chargeback on your cc. And don't hold your breath waiting for a favorable ruling from the cc company if he claims a switch or that the damage was done by your improper packing when you sent it via FedEx, or whatever other line of bs he comes up with. You have no proof of your claim. You sent it back to him.
A $75.00 solid state device will always blow first to protect a 25 cent fuse ~ Murphy's Law
posted on April 18, 2005 04:05:32 PM new
If I'd of gotten a package that was a picture I was expecting (heck I'd never send one with glass anyway - what were they thinking? Picture glass is cheap!) that rattled suspiciously when it arrived - I would have taken it to the PO before I opened it or had my local carrier on hand - BEFORE I opened it. Let THEM document the shape that it arrived in.
Or a camera? Didn't think to take pictures of it either?
You bought insurance, you should of never shipped it back to the sender without giving the seller the option to make good on the insurance.
Having said THAT - always make sure you document in PP or otherwise that you bought and paid for the insurance. I've noticed that when you bring up a closed item in PP that it does NOT show where you paid for insurance.
OR - you could of insured it on YOUR END with DSI.
If you can't prove it was a REAL whatever before you bought it - you shouldn't be bidding on Ebay. Did you ask about the provenance? Did you just hope you got a "really good deal"?
posted on April 18, 2005 04:22:42 PM new
I'm trying in vain to "ask ask ask" a question in vain this past week, to a seller with 9,000+ feedback but is only at about 97% positive fb (just making a point that you're actually supposed to be above 98.sumpthin% to be a "powerseller" ...
this person, although they only have 30some auctions running, will NOT respond to my question .......... SO, i won't bid! fools out there, I tell ya.
btw, most of their neuts and negs are for NOT answering emails, and shipping late.
[ edited by aintrichyet on Apr 18, 2005 04:23 PM ]
posted on April 18, 2005 08:49:15 PM new
I think the packing and broken glass issues pale in comparison to the fact that it was a reproduction and not what you intended to buy.
I would save a copy of the auction to documents and carefully review it to see if it was actually mis-represented or you made assumptions that were not what was stated.
posted on April 18, 2005 09:12:51 PM new
Parklane...The problem is, Rutabaga no longer has the item and cannot prove any allegation he/she makes. If they had followed the proper protocal for a damaged item, it would now be in the local post office and the postal inspectors would have ample oppertunity to inspect it and build a case. There is presently another thread running in which a buyer received a fake Tiffany bracelet. She still has the bracelet and in a good position to get her money back by sending the heavyweights to the sellers front door. Unfortunately, she is an honest person, otherwise she could invoke a little extortion on the jerk and make a tidy little profit of the crook's misdeed in turn for keeping her out of jail.
A $75.00 solid state device will always blow first to protect a 25 cent fuse ~ Murphy's Law
posted on April 19, 2005 10:37:24 AM new
It does not matter that she does not have the item in her possession.
file the dispute with your credit card issuer and include the fed exp shipment and his signature.
he will be fighting this chargeback thru paypal,paypal will present his side of the story for him and your credit card issuer will rule,there is no second or third appeal,they changed the appeal rule last year and your credit card issuer once they decide,will be final.
The fact that you return the item should get you the refund.
If he loses,there is a 10 dollars chargeback fee he has to pay,if he empties his account,then paypal will eat the loss and go after him.
-sig file -------
Eat grass,kick ass,never go belly up!
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