posted on October 11, 2005 07:04:14 PM new
I have a question.
I sold an item on eBay (I list for one penny, no reserve). My TOS states "No refunds except for material misrepresentation."
The item in question is a Native American bracelet, which, in my best estimation dates from the 1930s.
It sold for a good amount of money. The high bidder asked no questions on the piece. He paid through PayPal. I mailed the item out promptly.
Today he sent me two messages: one stating that he "wasn't happy" and wanted a refund. The second message called me "sweetie" (ICK! And he misspelled it to boot!) and stated the piece isn't 1930s. (That is quite debatable, actually. I've sold Native jewelry for years, and my eyes and experience tell me it is.)
I sent back a message stating that I wouldn't refund (item IS sterling, measurements are all accurate; as to dating, it really is my 'expertise' versus your 'expertise'.)
He just sent me this email: THEN [my name edited] I WILL TAKE IT UP WITH EBAY AND PAY PAL . I COLLECT NATIVE JEWERY AND THIS ISNT 30ES DARLIN. U CAN RELIST AND PROBALY GET MORE .BUT I AM GOING TO CONTACT EBAY AND PAY PAL .AND I REALLY DONT WANT TO CAUSE ANY TROUBLE . SO PLEASE LETS BE GOOD EBAYERS. U CAN TAKE 5 PERCENT TO RELIST IF U WANT . AND I WILL GIVE U GREAT FEED BACK .BUT IF NOT TOMMRROW I WILL CONTACT EBAY. AND THEY WILL FROZE YOUR PAYPAL ACCOUNT . THANKS [his name edited] GOD BLESS
Is this feedback extortion? Do I have any recourse?
What do you think I should do? I am really of two minds. I've maintained my feedback record, and have always been a courteous seller. However, I don't believe I am in the wrong.
posted on October 11, 2005 07:47:35 PM new
Screw the "second highest bidder" game.
I have a real problem believing that someone that uses "u" instead of "you" and "froze" as opposed to "freeze" is an expert in vintage native american jewelry. They also obviously have zero understanding of the way PayPal and eBay work.
Tell them to bite you, save the niceties for making them look like a complete ass with ebay and PayPals dispute staff.
BTW - yes, I am feeling especially combative this evening.
~~~ • ~~~ • ~~~ • ~~~ • ~~~
An intelligent deaf-mute is better than an ignorant person who can speak.
posted on October 11, 2005 08:52:29 PM new
Dear Numbnuts,
I'm sorry to hear you are disappointed with your purchase, but I can guarantee the bracelet is authentic. It was originally presented to a native American member of the local Yahoo band in 1936. Shortly afterward, he met with a violent death in an accidental explosion of a moonshine still. The bracelet has been passed down through the family, and every person who has possessed it has had misfortune in the form of plague, criminal convictions, HIV and unfavorable IRS audits. The chief of the Yahoo tribe offered this to me to sell on consignment on my Ebay account. Because it is possessed with evil spirits and bad luck to whoever possesses it, he wanted it off the reservation and out of the state. The proceeds of the sale went to benefit the young widow of the most recent owner. Since it was not mine to begin with, I am in no position to offer a refund. Please continue to correspond with me during the course of the coming year. We are very anxious to see if the curse has finally been lifted, or if it still remains with the bracelet. Sincerely,
SkorpioGal
A $75.00 solid state device will always blow first to protect a 25 cent fuse ~ Murphy's Law
[ edited by sparkz on Oct 11, 2005 08:54 PM ]
posted on October 11, 2005 11:00:21 PM new
SkorpioGal,
Send sparkz's email, it's perfect, so funny.
If he keeps on bothering you then just tell him to do whatever.
You have many years experience, know what your selling & said "no refunds" stick to it.
By the way, if he used a credit card with PayPal he has no recorse with the CC people because you stated no refunds.
posted on October 12, 2005 06:01:02 AM new
Let him know that you stand by your opinion as to the date. Dating an item is not an exact science, you will always have experts and collectors who disagree.
Paypal will not 'froze' your account. If he opens a dispute, they will ask him to have an appraisal done - at his cost. He then has to fax the appraisal to Paypal. If it concurs that the dating is off, they may side with him, but you do state no refunds, so they may not.
Paypal will make him jump through so many hoops on this thing, he may just give up.
Tell him nicely that you respect his opinion and at this juncture it may be best to bring in an unbiased 3rd party, so he is welcome to file a Paypal claim.
Or send Sparkz email - I got a big kick out of it!
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Caroline
posted on October 12, 2005 06:09:59 AM new
Caveat: This is slightly off topic, but it does relate to the thread.
I was just asked to do a 3rd party "appraisal" for a PayPal dispute on a Hess truck that was described as mint.
I was worried about doing it, but once I saw the truck it was a no-brainer. The auction stated mint, and the photos did not highlight any flaws and there was no description of the many scratches and misaligned decals. My appraisal (not of monetary value, but of condition) was that mint was out, near mint was out, that I wouldn't call it excellent but that given its age one could argue that it was appropriate, and that very good was what I would have called it.
I had a similar truck, for which I got $300+ after an honest description, but the poor buyer in this case paid $2200 for what was clearly not mint.
Interesting side note: the seller said that her friend, for whom she sold it, said it was mint, and anyway, she had already given the money to the friend, so there was nothing she could do about it
Claude
[ edited by cashinyourcloset on Oct 12, 2005 06:10 AM ]
posted on October 12, 2005 06:36:33 AM new
Ouch - $2,200 and then to get burned on it. Hope they win this one. Although I feel for the seller as well - I just had to do a $230 refund because I missed some damage on a piece of glassware and it hurt. I had, of course, already spent the money.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Caroline
posted on October 12, 2005 06:56:11 AM new
First off I would have refunded and moved on. I choose not to waste my time and energy with unhappy customers for what ever reason.
It becomes FB extortion only if he acts on his threats, right now its just a threat. Save yourself some grief and refund!
posted on October 12, 2005 07:34:53 AM new
caroline, I feel for the seller too, but considering that I would possibly have gotten $1900 more for my truck if I had lied about its condition, I'm not TOO sympathetic. Heck, my truck was in considerably better condition.
allding, I'm not disagreeing about your recommended action, but the threat IS the extortion, not a prelude.
posted on October 12, 2005 08:57:04 AM new
I want to thank everyone for his/her input.
I've decided not to refund.
If the buyer wishes to pursue it further, I am prepared.
Many thanks again. Sometimes another perspective is necessary.
(Note to alldings: I do understand what you're saying. But I just can't smile and eat this one. However, thanks. I did consider your thoughts as well.)
posted on October 12, 2005 09:22:39 AM new
Good for you for making a statement in your TOS about refunds. You are certainly within your rights not to refund. However, this sounds like an item you could easily sell again. You will probably spend more time and aggravation in the dispute than you would relisting it. Advice to refund comes from many excellent sources (Golden Rule, karma, WWJD, Jack Welch, take your pick). If you don't take it back and resell, someone will end up unhappy. If you do, everyone ends up happy.
I used to be a total business-is-business person, but as the years have gone by I find that the opportunity to make someone happy is way more important than the specifics of any business transaction.
posted on October 12, 2005 07:39:39 PM new
<<I'd offer a refund, minus the shipping fees. They did offer to pay 5% of the cost to cover your listing fees.>>
Agreed, that would be the easy way out. In fact giving in to extortionists, bullies and windbags is always the most convenient way to exit an unpleasant situation. I, personally, prefer to settle a difference with a person like this with a Louisville Slugger between his eyes. But that's just me. Your mileage may vary. Has anyone given any thought to what would happen if Skorpio agreed to his demand, and the item he returns is not the same bracelet she shipped? He sticks to his guns, and now we have another he says, she says scenario. She has the money and the item and he looks like the victim because she admitted misreprentation by agreeing to take it back. Scorpio thought out her TOS very carefully to fit her particular business plan. It wisely included a no refund policy. The proper thing to do is for her to stick to her policy and not refund, and expect him to honor her policy by asking questions before he bids. BTW, she needs to block this bozo now so he can't bid on any future auctions of hers.
A $75.00 solid state device will always blow first to protect a 25 cent fuse ~ Murphy's Law
posted on October 13, 2005 06:08:30 AM new
What happens if the buyer attempts a chargeback with his cc claiming the item received was not what he bid on, hence a fraudulent transaction?
If he's successful with his chargeback, does paypal absorb the loss or take the money from the seller?
posted on October 13, 2005 06:37:47 AM new
I would bet a charge back through his cc company will get all of his money back, after he sends the item back certified mail and it is signed for.
He is their customer not paypal's. Paypal may not like it but he will have to deal with that.
That is why I never accept a package without the Return Authorization number written on the outside. You are a sitting duck if you accept every package sent to you.
posted on October 13, 2005 10:16:42 AM new
Ron, it would have been smart thinking if I didn't learn it the hard way
I was in a squabble with someone about a signed baseball. I accepted a package, the baseball was in it, and (knowing that the buyer wouldn't accept it back), my goose was cooked. As it happens, I sold it for nearly as much the next time, but I did lose some money.
posted on October 13, 2005 12:08:05 PM new
I think the problem is that your TOS states
"No refunds except for material misrepresentation."
If you state this is from the 1930's and it isn't (even if it is a guess) it could be an issue.
Honestly, it is TOS like these that keep me buying very much on ebay to begin with. I can't imagine receiving something, have it not be as advertised (not stating that this is necessarily the case here) and then told to go stick it if I want a refund. I don't return things very often, but I want that option, and pretty much don't bid when I see that.
As a seller, I have a pretty liberal return policy, it's worth it to me to lose a few bucks than to battle it out with a disgruntled customer. I rarely get returns, I think usually the biggest reason for a return (I sell mainly movies) is someone buys a really rare movie, uses me as a free rental service. I check it when I get it back, if it is good I block the buyer, and then resell. I'm out a few bucks for postage, but the way I figure it, how much of my time is $5 worth for the amount of grief that I have to go through? Not very much, thus I just move on!
posted on October 13, 2005 12:19:11 PM new
ebayvet,
I have essentially the same TOS. It is to protect me from a return when (as happened to me) a buyer says that my saying a PDA was in perfect working order was not true, as there was 1 (ONE!) dead pixel. I found text online from Palm and some other PDA manufacturers that they won't refund a new PDA unless there are a good number of dead pixels. By the way, I didn't notice the dead pixel when I wrote the PDA up, because my OCD would have made me mention it.
I considered responding that 1 dead pixel out of (I forget the exact resolution) 250,000 pixels entitled them to a proportional refund of $0.0001
posted on October 13, 2005 01:41:39 PM new
I find it much easier to refund to unhappy customers. I have only had a few over the years that had no reason to return an item so I never thought it was worth the hassel. Sounds like the buyer offering you a restocking fee is trying to be fair with you.
posted on October 13, 2005 06:22:38 PM new
Just an update:
The buyer emailed me several times over the course of a couple of hours, to the tune of, "You're ignoring me. I'll get you kicked off eBay and PayPal."
Sorry if I have to work during the day.
He initiated a refund request to PayPal.
His issue was that "items from the 1930s were never marked 'Sterling.' I know this because I've been collecting for over 50 years."
The STERLING stamp is clearly visible and mentioned. If he's such an expert, why did he bid on it in the first place?
I called PayPal, determined how to respond, and did.
I look forward to the next round. With every statement, he further damns himself.
Oh, did I mention that I still have his FIRST email to me where he states he "LOVES" the bracelet?
I'm not backing down on this one. Buyer's remorse won't cut it.
posted on October 13, 2005 08:30:44 PM new
A question--if the buyer initiates a chargeback from his cc and receives a refund, does paypal take the money from the seller's account or do they absorb the loss?
Caroline 
