posted on October 19, 2005 06:01:14 PM new
This is not Ebay related but since so many of you have vasts amount of knowledge and experiences I need some feedback and suggestions.
We are thinking of purchasing a bigger home (have been for quite awhile) but in order to buy a new house we have to sell or rent ours. We have been seriously considering putting our house up as a Section 8 rental house.
Have any of you had any experiences with leasing homes as Section 8 or have known someone who has?
If anyone has could you please give me some advice on if it's worth it or would we be taking a big chance.
I have read some of the Section 8 information and it is my understanding that now all tenants are responsible for any damages beyond normal wear and tear. I took it as the gov't saying that if the tenant tears up your house they (gov't) won't pay to fix it up. Is this the case now?
There is a Section 8 rental a couple houses down from us and the tenants have broken out one window that is now boarded up and it looks tacky to say the least. Our house isn't spectacular but it is a decent house.
Any pointers or advice would be helpful, please!!!
posted on October 19, 2005 06:19:47 PM new
Section 8 = Instant Slum. The quickest way you can turn your former friendly neighbors into enemies is to rent your house out under section 8. 80% of the applicants will be welfare recipients, and the other 20% will be very low income applicants, neither of which can afford to post a deposit or pay for any damages they cause. I was faced with this same decision on a house I own. I went with a highly recommended property management company. Their fee is not exorbitant, and they thoroughly screen all rental applicants, including credit reports, references and ability to pay. They collect a deposit, have on staff repair workers to handle routine maintenance, and can arrange for emergency major repairs from a list of reliable businesses at a pre-negotiated favorable rate. They will handle eviction and small claims proceedings if it becomes necessary. I used to own 4 apartments which I rented and handled all the details myself. It was one constant headache after another. I have been using this property management firm for 10 years now, and I would never do it any other way.
A $75.00 solid state device will always blow first to protect a 25 cent fuse ~ Murphy's Law
posted on October 19, 2005 06:41:01 PM new
I've been a real estate broker for 27 years. I would NEVER recommend renting out a single family dwelling, unless your new house is next door. The quickest way to turn a neighborhood into a slum is to turn it over to renters.
In today's market, with interest rates creeping slowly back up, the overall market will be slowing down. That means that houses will not appreciate as quickly as they have in the past. (With some exceptions)
JMHO
Contact a reputable Realtor in your area, follow his suggestions for fixing your property up for resale, sell your existing home and move on.
posted on October 19, 2005 06:55:21 PM new
max is right, do NOT rent out a single family home - ESPECIALLY to Section 8 people. as others have pointed out, Section 8'ers are not going to be able to pay for the (many, trust me) repairs that will be needed. i once owned a single-family home next door to the house i lived in. constant headache. best thing i ever did was to sell it and move on.
there aren't enough hours here for me to write down all of the horror stories i went through - usually involving expensive repairs and always at my own expense - because renters just don't have any "stake" in keeping the place up and they won't. no matter how "nice" they seem when you rent to them.
posted on October 19, 2005 07:18:09 PM new
Well, you all ain't gonna like my two cents one bit. Not everyone that rents under Section 8 are bums who have nothing better to do then tear up your house. There are good decent families who are living at poverty level not by any fault of their own. To say that all people living on welfare or living in poverty are irresponsible bums is a terrible statement to make. Major repairs to a home that is rented, are the responsiblity of the home owner, not the renter unless they are caused directly by the renter. If a furnace breaks, the owner is responsible. If a door falls off its hinges, it's the responsibility of the homeowner to make that repair. Not the renter. I have rented homes before. It doesn't matter who you rent your home to, it will cost you money to do so. That's why rent on single family homes is so high. To lay the blame on the poor isn't right.
My daughter is living at poverty level, although not on Section 8. She rents a single family home. She keeps her home immaculate. She has saved money to paint the interior and keeps a nice garden out front. On a street where 90% of the homes are owned, her's is one of the better looking ones. When something minor breaks, she fixes it. If it's major, the landlord fixes it. It's the cost of doing business.
BTW, my brother rented his home out to an executive and his family. He thought he was pretty safe in doing so. The executive accidentally drove his car through the front of my brother's home one night when his accelerator stuck.
posted on October 19, 2005 08:05:09 PM new
Cheryl - you do know that you daughter is the exception, not the rule right? That most doors don't spontaniously fall off their hinges but generally incur a certain level of abuse prior to that action.
Meow - On top of everything else...be prepared to say goodbye to your lawn if go the Section 8 route... afterall, water bills are expensive and your renters probably won't be able to afford to pay extra to keep your yard up.
~~~ • ~~~ • ~~~ • ~~~ • ~~~
An intelligent deaf-mute is better than an ignorant person who can speak.
hahaha, you're so droll. cblev's daughter may be rebecca of sunnybrook farm, but that certainly wasn't the case with my renters.
maybe tomorrow if i have more time, i'll share some of my "learning experiences" regarding renters. towards the end of my career as a landlord, i let the rental house sit empty for nearly a year until it sold, rather than rent it out and get any more "surprises" from renters.
(and that led to an onslaught of hat-in-hand folks banging on my door any old time they felt like it and usually at a time inconvenient for me, wanting to know if i'd "owner finance" the house for them. yeah, right, do i look like the bank? the bank is downtown.)
when i bought the house i'm in now, a realtor tried to show me some with "mother-in-law's apartments" or "garage apartments," etc. i said i'd rather die than own any more rental property. and i meant it.
posted on October 19, 2005 08:43:43 PM new
Vintage...One of these days we'll have to get together and compare notes on the joys of being a landlord. Maybe we can write a book. Here in California, if a renter knows how to manipulate the system, he can simply quit paying rent and continue to live in the house for up to 6 months before the marshall shows up with a court order and a moving company to forcefully evict the deadbeat. I've seen many of these cases. I agree with Max, cash out the house now while the housing market is at its peak, unless there is a particular reason you want to rent it, such as certain tax advantages which happens to be my case. In any event, do not try to handle the rental yourself. Have a professional do it for you. In the last 10 years, I have had 3 tennants in my rental. I would not know any of them if I met them on the street. I have never seen nor spoken to them. All details of the rental were handled by my property management company, which by the way, made periodic inspections of the premisis to ascertain that it was being properly kept up.
A $75.00 solid state device will always blow first to protect a 25 cent fuse ~ Murphy's Law
posted on October 19, 2005 08:56:01 PM new
sparkz,
love to compare notes with you on rental properties and the horror stories attendant to them...i'm pretty sure we could write a book! the uninitiated think it's such a GREAT way to make money - ha!
my personal all-time low was when some renters' children deliberately and repeatedly stopped up the bathroom plumbing upstairs - both the commode and the tub. this all overflowed and waterlogged the plaster ceiling of the living room below. soon, the plaster began to fall off in big chunks.
however, i was unaware of this until the week the renters decided to move and told me that "the ceiling had just fallen." the short version, which spares you my fireworks temper, resulted in a cost of over $3k to me to fix a problem created by the renters. i actually won a judgment against them for that and other damage but, they packed up their bags and moved to NJ and it became cost-prohibitive to chase after them. they were actually the last renters i ever had.
there were other charmers too, like the lady who - without asking my permission - let her parakeet fly freely throughout the house, leaving behind bird souvenirs all over the place. she and her husband were the only ones i ever had to evict and one advantage of living in a small town was, it only took 6 days to get them out.
or another summer day several years ago when police descended on the yard next door. i thought it looked like there were a lot of ATVs and 3-wheelers over there, and there were, they were stolen!
and then there was the lovely summer afternoon when, as i waited in line at the grocery store, i idly picked up the local paper to discover that the headline was that "so and so" at "thus and such an address" (my rental house of course) had just been arrested for 21 counts of sexually molesting his teenage daughter right under my nose next door. my ex had actually rented the house to that bunch of people, and i called him at work (we were already divorced) and left him a message in which i hissed into his phone and said i don't care how you do it but YOU brought those people here, YOU get 'em out today - and i don't care how you do it." i don't know what he said to them (other than probably "you really don't want to see her mad," hahahaha), but they were gone the next morning.
it took 8 truckloads to clear out the total garbage they'd left in the basement.
i would say if a person has more time on their hands than they know what to do with, wants a "challenge" and wants to get an eye-opening glimpse into the wonderful world of human nature, being a landlord just might be the way to do that.
posted on October 19, 2005 09:18:19 PM new
I have a friend who has 28 rental properies, many of them HUD & all are in lower to very low class neighborhoods. He loves section 8 & wishes all were because knows he's going to get paid.
He hates the business he's in, but is in so deep he has to stay, & mostly because repairs are constant & blocked up toilets are an everyday occurance. He is always in the process of evicting someone for not paying rent & that takes time while the non paying tenants are living rent free until he finally can get them out.
He is also being sued by someone he hired to mow lawns on a few properties. He cut part of his big toe off while using the mower.
Granted Cheryl, there are many very responsible lower income people renting, but the majority are not.
I too was a landlord at one time. When I bought my second house I kept & rented the first with all kinds of expectations of making money. The renter in turn leased out bedrooms to friends & they beat the hell out of the place. I started eviction, the renter stopped paying & I was told it could take up to six months to get them out.
It didn't take much time at all. Shortly after they set fire to the place, probably from a cigarette or most likely a joint, being a brick house it was completely gutted. I collected the insurance & sold the shell & property & said....never again.
So, sell outright & invest the money in a money market account & watch it grow with no headaches.
posted on October 19, 2005 09:36:57 PM new
Vintage...Sounds like some of my old renters when I had the apartments. Did you ever have any dope dealers? Those are the ones that can cause you to lose sleep. They get a shipment in, and before you know it, 75 cars show up for buys in a two hour period of time. Next thing you know, the narcs are prowling around the place and then they raid the place. When they use the ram to knock the door down, guess who pays? If you try to bill them, they recite the asset forfeiture law and tell you the next time they raid the place for dope, the property will be seized and sold at auction, with the proceeds going to the city, county or state. I just love those real estate ads in the paper where rental property is described as income property. HA!! I'd rather pick cotton by hand for income.
A $75.00 solid state device will always blow first to protect a 25 cent fuse ~ Murphy's Law
posted on October 19, 2005 10:05:12 PM new
I would consider section 8 for something like a duplex where the neighborhood is basically renters, but I wouldn't rent out a single family house to section 8. If it were me, I would sell the house. If you want to invest in a rental, buy something like a duplex. I own a few rental properties, so far it has been a mostly positive experience, but it is not for everyone. You won't make money in the short term on rent, in fact you probably will lose. However, if you are in it for the long term, someone else is paying down a mortgage, and I've probably seen my net worth increase by a six figure amount this past year with increasing property values.
posted on October 20, 2005 04:23:27 AM new
sparkz,
i missed the dope dealers, thank God. i did inadvertently have the largest gambling establishment in the county, though. one renter was a construction worker (he lied about his trade) with several kids and when winter rolled around and he was seasonally unemployed, i cringed at the thought of what might come next, like nonpayment...
at first, i was pleasantly surprised to see that i was getting paid after all. until the day that one of the sheriff's deputies, who was a friend of mine, took me aside and said that the reason there was so much "activity" at the house (i'd noticed an inordinately large number of cars coming and going) was that there was a 24/7 high-stakes poker game going on over there. he advised me that the house would be shortly raided. i guess he took pity on me because i was so clueless. i really didn't want my name in the paper as the owner of the establishment.
so i went and told the renters they had 24 hours to get out. they whined about "renter's rights." gotta love it. i said either get out or plan to spend your next several weeks in jail, during which time i will of course have you evicted. they left that day.
then, as the neighborhood went more and more to rental property, there was the mexican "house of ill repute" that opened across the street. but i digress...anyway, meowmix, we're telling you the truth...you DON'T WANT RENTAL PROPERTY.
posted on October 20, 2005 04:34:14 AM new
My daughter could be Rebecca of Sunnybrook Farm. LOL! Just don't tell her that. She's lived in this house for five years. The landlord is so pleased he's never raised the rent.
That most doors don't spontaniously fall off their hinges
Geesh, I know that. I was just pulling an example out of thin air. OTOH, after years of opening and closing, hinges do become loose, misaligning the door, making shutting a door next to impossible. We just had to fix the hinges on our bedroom door for that very reason.
Laws vary from state to state. Where I live, the landlord has to pay the water and sewer bill. It's usually built into the rent much like we build handling into our shipping costs (just to make this eBay related).
Section 8 rules around here are also stringent for both the landlord and the tenant. Many of the Section 8 property around here has inflated rental rates, so I don't feel bad for the majority of the landlords. My daughter lives in a three bedroom home that is quite large. Her rent is $600 per month. The house next door to her (also with great tenants) is Section 8, has two bedrooms and is about 1/2 the size. The rent on that house is $800/month. The cost of any repairs are more than made up for in the cost of the rent.
Edited to add: We went on a website and found out that the house next door from my daughter was purchased for $23,000, 15 years ago. $800 per month is a tidy profit considering the house is probably paid for. It's a game. You just have to have the stomach for it and incredible tolerance.
Cheryl
[ edited by cblev65252 on Oct 20, 2005 04:36 AM ]
posted on October 20, 2005 05:11:33 AM new
meowmix:
..in the midst of all these horry stories people telling each other - i guess you have gained something by asking your question...
----------------------------
..soooooo, as cblev says "just my two cents."
..here's mine---since you state, "we must rent or sell," why dont you consider financing a qualified seller...again, as cblev alludes to, there are lots of people out there who dont have much money; but do have a job - and many seek nothing more than a chance...it doesnt take much of a down payment, to create Equity...many, many times, within the lower and middle economic class, Equity is still a matter of conscience and pride --not the exception...and that goes a long way toward protecting your investment..
-----------------
..no matter what any of the experts tell you, owner financing of real estate is a great way to accumulate wealth...hell, i sold my parent's old country store 2 times before the paper stuck...and made a little both times...
..being a lienholder on a house "aint" same as taking a chance on some renter who doesnt give a rats a*# for your property...
--------
TO cblev,
..your statement is correct..."To say that all people living on welfare or living in poverty are irresponsible bums is a terrible statement to make"
------------------------------------
myoldtoy
Myoldtoy, I agree with that statement too. It takes a lot of interest and good communication with tenants in order to successfully maintain rental property. If you don't have the ability to choose your tenants carefully or the time and money to maintain your property, then selling, as myoldtoy suggested is the best decision!
posted on October 20, 2005 08:53:48 AM new
I live in a new subdivision and my neighbor was transferred back to his own country by his employer,his house sat empty for a year and then rented to a large family of mother and 5 kids,the father lived elsewhere.
They have a large black rotweiller who is bored to death in the backyard,it will throw itself against the fence when it sensed I am in my backyard,it dug several times under the fence and I have to raise hell to get them fill the holes it dug.
I have called the property management,the police and animal control,but they kept making excuses for their dog.
They do water the front lawn and never fertilise or remove the weeds.
They told everyone they are renting to buy,until they were evicted for not paying rent.
Now Fannie Mae owns the house,it has been restored to as new condition,when HUD was looking to house the Katrina victims,Fannie removed the listing from the market and we are grateful.
I dont know what kind of neigborhood you live in,I will say one section 8 house is one too many for any neigborhood,it is like cockroach,if you see one,you will soon see more!!
some of you suggest selling the house while market is strong,market in many areas are no longer strong,in fact there is a glut of houses for sale in some areas.The fact the poster came to ask about section 8 could be a sign houses are just not selling in her area.
[ edited by hwahwa on Oct 20, 2005 10:40 AM ]
posted on October 20, 2005 12:27:31 PM new
Thanks all for your comments and suggestions. I love all the rental horror stories. Several of the houses around here are all rental homes. The house next door to us sees many tenants (about 5 since we bought our house 4 1/2 years ago) and I swear the house doesn't have a chance to get cold and a new tenant has moved in, practically overnight. Everyone of those have been decent tenants. Haven't talked to the new ones yet. They've only lived there for about a month.
The market here is still good but the problem is our house is less than 1000 sq. feet and has only a 1 car garage. I have seen some houses sell in a couple of months and some have had been on the market for almost a year or more. The area we are in is actually a very good area. It's in a part of Tulsa called Midtown and everyone likes this area but as I said before all the houses including ours are small.
I personally would like to stay here and add on but it's not cost prohibited. We cannot expand our garage out because we only have 6 feet on each side of the house and one side has the air conditioning unit. We have a huge backyard and can only build out that way.
posted on October 20, 2005 02:39:22 PM new
I recalled meeting a Cuban man who is building 2 bedroom house when 4-5 bedroom houses are in vogue.He is targeting the hispanic market.
My builder has started doing the same,altho it has stopped doing it recently,building smaller house on smaller lot-3 bedrooms with no formal dining room and no fireplace ,but there is a 2 car garage!!
posted on October 20, 2005 03:24:02 PM new "My builder has started doing the same,altho it has stopped doing it recently,building smaller house on smaller lot-3 bedrooms with no formal dining room and no fireplace ,but there is a 2 car garage!!"
Formal dining rooms are usually unoccupied even in millionaire's mansions. By adding the two car garage, which may be used partially for storage of lawn care equipment etc. your builder may be using the area in these small homes to better advantage.
posted on October 20, 2005 03:38:14 PM new
the builders are designing houses fit for today lifestyle-2 cars,media room,shower stall,walk in closet,bigger kitchen!!
