posted on January 10, 2006 06:33:27 AM new
It finally happened. A guy wins auction for a rare book about the country of Andorra. He lives in Andorra. Says there's no Paypal there (what a shock) and wants me to send by bank account number and address. Can I do this? Is it safe? Is there an alternative?
posted on January 10, 2006 07:18:40 AM new
Hello,
First go in or call your bank about wire transfers, charges (yours) etc. Let the bank educate you as all banks are not the same, especially if your "bank" is a credit union.
However yes, wire transfers are safe and done much more in Europe than here.
I have had wire transfer's done in the past and no problem.
That said, I have had two accounts at my bank for years. One is my Ebay account and is NOT connected to my other account in any way. I use the Ebay account as a buffer just in case. I can transfer funds among accounts but NO ONE else can. I have never had a problem but feel better with this system.
posted on January 10, 2006 07:20:56 AM new
And the great debate begins again..... here are the two arguements you are going to get....
1) No problem - he's not asking you for any information not found on any check that you may write.
2) Problem - he can use that information to create counterfeit checks
I'm usually a #1 person but the other thing that you need to know and take take into consideration is.... what does your bank charge you to recieve international bank transfers?
If your bank does not charge you a fee or the buyer is willing to cover the fees I would suggest just using a "dump" account. It does not even need to be a checking account. Use a savings account. Put $5 in it and give it a try.
Because of our backasswards banking system, Americans are often leary of things that the rest of the world find commonplace.
~~~ ~~~ ~~~ ~~~ ~~~
Never ask what sort if computer a guy drives. If he's a Mac user, he'll tell you. If he's not, why embarrass him? - Tom Clancy
posted on January 10, 2006 08:29:29 AM new
According to a service person at my bank they don't even have to create a phony check. There is nothing to keep them from making a checkless withdrawal (don't remember what that is called) like the kind you may have OKed for some of your ongoing payments. In most back accounts (or so she told me) there is no mechanism to you to approve these checkless withdrawals.
I have done it in the past with no problem and I still do it with foreign freelance clients I know but don't give my number for international sales. I have been considering a small savings account where I would not keep a large balance.
European buyers don't understand why I refuse since it is so common there. Seems the problem is our antiquated banking rules. -----o----o----o----o----o----o----o----o
The illiterate of the future will be the person ignorant of the use of the camera as well as of the pen.
Maholy-Nagy, Vision in Motion, 1947
posted on January 10, 2006 09:05:05 AM new
Insurance co can debit your bank account for your monthly auto,health etc payment,so can mail order house if you agree to pay by monthly installment.
I dont believe anyone can just debot your account just because they know your bank account number.
Anyway,if it happens ,you can always notify your bank and have the transaction reversed.
/ lets all stop whining !! /
posted on January 10, 2006 09:22:34 AM new
My bank service person says anyone can debit your account with the account and routing number. Yes, you can get the money back but what about the mess it could make in your account? Bounced checks that would have cleared without the withdrawal could make life miserable.
Hard as it is to accept that it is that easy, my bank says that it is not difficult for a scammer to pretend to be a legitimate business and debit any account if they have the account number and routing information.
There have been several news stories about online check paying services that do not require any proof of account ownership when a request is made to send a payment.
For years I was told by the bank that this process was safe but they changed their tune in the past few months. When I brought up the old argument about it being the same information that is on every check the answer was, "Don't send personal checks to foreign sources you are not familiar with."
-----o----o----o----o----o----o----o----o
The illiterate of the future will be the person ignorant of the use of the camera as well as of the pen.
Maholy-Nagy, Vision in Motion, 1947
posted on January 10, 2006 01:07:43 PM newpelorus,
Ask them to go to one of the many banks in their postage stamp-sized country and get a bank draft in USD drawn on a US bank. Your Andorran buyer is expecting to send you a routine BIC + IBAN payments from their account - standard across much of Europe.
p.s. in most countries anyone can deposit funds into a bank account, but only the account holder can withdraw them. Third parties may debit said account on presentation of written authority.
Home of the best eBay auction fee & PayPal calculators: http://auctionfeecalculator.com
[ edited by agitprop on Jan 10, 2006 01:13 PM ]
posted on January 10, 2006 03:43:48 PM new
I covered this topic on a show a few months ago.
The danger of having your routing # and account # out in the wild is that this is all that is needed for a "Demand Draft"
From MSN:
"At the center of the controversy is a little-known system for cashing checks called demand drafts. Most consumers presume that checks must be signed by an authorized account holder. That's ordinarily true, but not in the case of so-called "demand drafts." These look just like checks, but indicate "signature not required" or a similar message in the authorized signature area. And generally, banks cash them just like valid, signed checks.
Demand drafts were designed to accommodate legitimate telemarketers who receive authorization from consumers to take money out of their checking accounts. But the potential for abuse is high. Not only do they not require a signature, but they require no action by the checking account holder.
What's needed to create a demand draft? Simply the account number and bank routing number information found on every single check. Write a check to your 12-year-old babysitter, and she has all the information she would need to clean out your account.
Demand drafts, also known as "remotely created checks," have become such an attractive target for criminals of late that the Federal Reserve in February proposed a new set of rules to govern them. And the National Association of Attorneys General last month called on the Fed to place an outright ban on demand drafts, citing increased fraud..."
posted on January 10, 2006 05:28:51 PM new
As an alternative, can this individual wire you money via Western Union? People do wire money all over the world by this method. Or is there a bank in that country that issues International cashier"s checks in U.S. dollars?
buyhigh
posted on January 10, 2006 05:37:38 PM new
My husband got his personal checking account ripped off. We think someone either used one of those ATM readers that they put over the real ATM card readers or someone took a picture with a camera phone. Anyway, he ended up with the crooks taking spending almost $500 out of that account. They stopped short of it being a felony. No purchases were made online. They were all at gas stations, drug stores and one big one at Burlington Coat Factory. These were all places around Baton Rouge, LA and we live in Tulsa, OK. We've never even been close to Louisiana
He did get all the money back. The really sad thing is that when he did the police report, the police outright admitted that they won't even work the case. There were about 80,000 cases reported just here in Tulsa alone this last year with only 10 detectives working them so there is no way they will investigate each one.
posted on January 10, 2006 06:58:28 PM new
It all boils down to the TOS of the seller, and the forms of payment he specifies he will accept. If the buyer cannot pay via one of the methods specified, he had no business bidding in the first place. He should have had no trouble emailing you to discuss this before the auction closed. However, now that it's closed, it's not the time to try to pursuade you to change your TOS to suit his convenience. He either pays in a manner specified by you, or you file a UID and give him a strike. A deadbeat is a deadbeat, whether they are in Andora or Arizona.
A $75.00 solid state device will always blow first to protect a 25 cent fuse ~ Murphy's Law
posted on January 10, 2006 07:52:05 PM new
Stop...Actually, I think it's spelled with two "R"'s. In Europe they call it a country. In Texas, you'd call it a neighborhood.
A $75.00 solid state device will always blow first to protect a 25 cent fuse ~ Murphy's Law
posted on January 10, 2006 08:00:30 PM new
For what it's worth, today I was at my bank, Wells Fargo, to get the necessary numbers for a wire transfer from Europe.
I specifically asked the banker if anyone other than I could withdraw funds from my account. If that were the case, I would have set up a separate account for the transfer.
He said withdrawals had to be authorized by me.
This is the first time I've accepted an eBay wire transfer. Hopefully it will all work out well. Might be an alternative to the now doomed BidPay...
posted on January 10, 2006 08:19:34 PM new
Sparkz,
Wells Fargo charges $10.00 for incoming wire transfers. I guess there are also currency conversion fees but I told my sender to be sure his bank sent the funds in US dollars.
The ten bucks is quite a bit less than what PayPal fees would have been.
posted on January 10, 2006 08:43:02 PM new
Thanks Lucy. I've got a dormant checking account at WF along with my regular account. I've been thinking about using it for something like that with the demise of Bidpay. But I certainly won't advertise or encourage it. I personally don't trust a foreign bank that will tell a customer they have no way to issue a money order payable in U.S. dollars drawn on a U.S. bank. Barclay's in England does it routinely on a daily basis. In fact, any medium to large size bank should be able to do the same thing. That's what I like about selling to Japan. They have numerous ways to get US dollars to a US seller without incurring large fees on either end. My last sale to Japan was paid for with a U.S. Postal money order (the green one).
A $75.00 solid state device will always blow first to protect a 25 cent fuse ~ Murphy's Law
posted on January 10, 2006 09:28:03 PM new
Sparkz,
Check with WF first. The fees might be dependent on the kind of account you have with them. I have the big fancy one, no charges for checking account, credit card, certified checks, etc.
In my research on this particular payment, I found Deutsche Bank has main offices in New York. I phoned them and the lady said yes, someone in Germany would be able to buy a US$ certified check there and it would be payable here.
There are probably many other world-wide banks with the same service.
